Electronic Shifting - What's the Point?
#26
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I agree with the first two points, but I disagree with the quicker and smoother shifting argument. I don't think my SRAM Force eTap shifts any quicker or smoother than my Campy or Shimano mechanical groups. In fact, I think the Ultegra R8000 might shift quicker and smoother than the SRAM eTap.
#27
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I have had broken cables more times than I've had a dead battery. My Garmin sends me a warning when the batteries are running low, and with Sram, the front/rear batteries can be swapped.
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Pffft. I have a spare groupset in my left pocket next to the spare frame in the right pocket. The only mechanical problem I can't deal with on the side of the road is a taco'd wheel, but that's ok because I'm hungry.
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#29
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It's nice to know that you break frames at a faster rate than your derailleurs fail.
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#30
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Buy good quality outers and teflon coated inners. I can shift my bike with my pinkies if I feel like it.
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Serious answer, about Di2. It shifts really well, probably not better than a well tuned DA mech system, but not worse either. Unlike mech, it never needs adjustment. Your Garmin can show you where you are on the cassette so you don't have to glance down, other cool integration stuff too.
If I went back to mech the biggest annoyance would be the trim. (Don't tell me about yaw FDs, those are crap.)
If I went back to mech the biggest annoyance would be the trim. (Don't tell me about yaw FDs, those are crap.)
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#32
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The thing that has not been mentioned yet, electronic shifting has some tricks that are impossible to replicate with a cable. Largely because you can do things with electronics that a cable can't replicate, such as automatic trimming. Additionally, there's no cable stretch issues, you can have multiple shifter locations.
If you look at the rear mech on a Di2 setup, during the initial shift, it moves too far, forcing the shift to occur, pauses for a second or two, then moves the upper pulley directly back inline. That motion path can't be replicated with a standard cable index shifter. You can approximate it by over-pressing the shift lever, but that only works in one direction. The exaggerated motion provides a more consistent shift, and the automatic trim reduces noise and drag.
Looking at the long-term, I fully expect electronic to complete replace mechanical in a few years, except for Campagnolo. An electronic derailleur consists of a $5 servo motor and $2 microprocessor, and some buttons. All the complicated stuff is done in software. I expect Shimano can produce a Di2 groupset at lower cost than an equivalent mechanical version.
If you look at the rear mech on a Di2 setup, during the initial shift, it moves too far, forcing the shift to occur, pauses for a second or two, then moves the upper pulley directly back inline. That motion path can't be replicated with a standard cable index shifter. You can approximate it by over-pressing the shift lever, but that only works in one direction. The exaggerated motion provides a more consistent shift, and the automatic trim reduces noise and drag.
Looking at the long-term, I fully expect electronic to complete replace mechanical in a few years, except for Campagnolo. An electronic derailleur consists of a $5 servo motor and $2 microprocessor, and some buttons. All the complicated stuff is done in software. I expect Shimano can produce a Di2 groupset at lower cost than an equivalent mechanical version.
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Looking at the long-term, I fully expect electronic to complete replace mechanical in a few years, except for Campagnolo. An electronic derailleur consists of a $5 servo motor and $2 microprocessor, and some buttons. All the complicated stuff is done in software. I expect Shimano can produce a Di2 groupset at lower cost than an equivalent mechanical version.
Eventually, mechanical groupsets will go the way of turntables and LPs. They will still be around, but in pretty limited form.
And eventually, bearded hipsters will start collecting old mechanical groupsets and waxing on about their unique qualities.
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Doesn't everybody? Sometimes I break 3 or 4 frames on a ride.
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#36
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Next great thing - collision avoidance systems that brake, steer and shift for you when you get too close to something.
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Personally, I carry one spare frame and one crabon patch kit - it's less bulky and if there's only one breakage, which is the majority of the time, it's a quick fix, but I still have the patch kit to fall back on if it's one of those rides (we've all had 'em ) and there's a second break.
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#38
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Serious answer, about Di2. It shifts really well, probably not better than a well tuned DA mech system, but not worse either. Unlike mech, it never needs adjustment. Your Garmin can show you where you are on the cassette so you don't have to glance down, other cool integration stuff too.
If I went back to mech the biggest annoyance would be the trim. (Don't tell me about yaw FDs, those are crap.)
If I went back to mech the biggest annoyance would be the trim. (Don't tell me about yaw FDs, those are crap.)
Regarding the Garmin and cassette position, when I've been riding a bike for a while I know the gear I'm at by feel. I never look at the cassette when riding my bikes.
#40
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Judging by your answers on this thread, you seem to be carying a lot of stuff my friend. Hope you're not forgetting water bottles?
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#43
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I have mechanical Campagnolo on my Ritchey Breakaway solo and EPS on my Lynskey. The EPS shifts with very little effort. The mechanical requires a bit more oomph to shift. Also, I can get two gears at a time when I want to, while the mechanical requires more force at the lever to make that happen. The low battery warning is in plenty of time to charge the EPS.
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#44
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Not once have I not been able to get home on my own means.
#45
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I have 6800 mech and I love it. It does not require any trim adjustment at all in any of the cogs really. It never misses a shift and if it does then I need to start looking at the cable and fraying. I have had it happen twice that I road in the small cog due to rear cable break. That said the bike was still rideable and I came home put new cable on before any electronic would have gotten back battery power. I am not at all against Di2 but right now my 6800 is not broke and I won't fix it. It shifts pretty effortlessly even the front. I have 6700 on my other bike and while is shifts fine it does require a bit more effort.
Like many things on this issue I am not in a hurry but eventually I probably will go to disk brakes. Most of my gripe is in press fit BB and I still find exposed cables much easier to deal with so I in the middle of all this for new technology on bikes.
Like many things on this issue I am not in a hurry but eventually I probably will go to disk brakes. Most of my gripe is in press fit BB and I still find exposed cables much easier to deal with so I in the middle of all this for new technology on bikes.
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This idea that riders are regularly running out of charge and getting stranded by electronic shifting is not accurate. Di2 with a D-fly unit connected can inform the head unit when the charge gets low. SRAM riders can switch out the batteries when needed. Some riders even carry a spare battery.
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#48
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That's not the only advantage; unlike mechanical shifting, it stays in tune indefinitely if unmolested. Then there's syncro shifting, along with the ability to reassign buttons at will, at least with E-tube Di2. And it potentially enables a drivetrain setup that would otherwise be too fiddly, ie a half-step triple to provide closer ratios at speed than otherwise available.
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#49
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BTW, folks who sneer at mechanical RED might like to take note of a couple of advantages of electronic listed here: no front trimming and no cable fraying.
You don't need an electronic group to avoid that...
You don't need an electronic group to avoid that...
#50
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I think you are asking the wrong question. How about......how will manufacturers make more profit if people keep buying old stuff that works?