Eldrid

Hello!

I have a bit of a problem with fitting new tires to on my bike, can anyone help please?
I have a Bianchi Via Nirone 7 Xenon 2013 which came with Reparto Corse Versus 700C rims.
The not too great Hutchinson Nitro 700 × 23 tires which the bike came with were relatively easy to put back on, but I don't seem to be able to put the new one on at all. ( I was getting punctures and needed a more robust tire.)
The new tire is a 25x700 Schwalbe Marathon Plus and the problem seems to be that once I put the bead on the rim it just does not want to stay there. The tire feels a tiny bit too wide and incredibly stiff, but given its sizing it should fit.
I've tried putting it on with and without the inner tube to see how to put it on, but no success at all.

I start by putting one side of the tire on the wheel, then put a slightly inflated inner tube and the valve in place, and then try to get the other part of the tire on:
what happens is that if I put about 1cm of the bead in place, hold it down, and then put a bit more of the tire on eventually the stiffness of the tire will lead to the bead popping right out from where I have put it, sometimes even the other side of the tire also pops out of the rim.
I have not been able to put on more than 2 inches, and even that felt 'ready to jump'.
It feels like the bead is not maybe not long enough to stay in place, or the tire is too stiff, or the tire is a bit too wide.

I don't know what to do, could it be that despite the correct size my tire and wheel are not really compatible?
Is there any technique or tool that I could use to make it stay in place?

Any advice will be greatly appreciated!
Thank you

Ghost Ryder

Soap, water, & a proper lever.

I don't even use soap & water, a lil elbow grease is all I need.
Helps to have strong thumbs.

Lew.

Some rim/tyre combos can lead to being incredibly difficult to fit - not every company measures from the same place, use different machines etc.
If the tyre is new - have you stretched it? (Put it under your foot and pull the tyre)
My S-Works tyre simply refused to fit onto my Ellipse wheel (track bike), after a bit of stretching it was easy.
If that doesn't help, I'd also say to use water+soap to help lube up the tyre.
For me - the hardest bit is the last few inches, if you get this far (it sounds like the tyre is being a real b*tch, so I do say 'if'), squeeze the tyre opposite to give you a couple of more mm to pull over the rim.

Yes, tyre. I'm British.

Carbonfiberboy 

If you can get one side on with your hands, you can get the other. Set the tire and wheel on your thighs, valve away from you. Push the valve up. Put in the bead right at the valve. Keep your left thumb on it, while with the right hand you seat the bead about 1/4 the way around the wheel. By that time, the bead at the valve should stay there. If not, seat some more of it with the right hand. Then switch hands, holding the right thumb at the valve and seating bead with the left hand. The bead should then stay in place while you flip the wheel 180° and finish the job.

The MP is overkill, BTW. Try a Michelin PRO4 Endurance in 25mm.

Scooper

Sheldon recommends a Kool-Stop Bead Jack.

fstshrk

I use the bead jack and it works. I also heard putting the tire inside the drier for a few minutes on hot would work too. Given the asphalt temps in the summer, I don't think there will be permanent damage to the tire.

BigJeff

Buy different tires.

Roadside flat repairs are not worth the struggle...

Eldrid

Thanks for the replies!
I am not sure if my problem actually was clear from the replies I've received.
I don't have a problem getting the tire over the rim, I have problem with it staying where I put it: -

rpenmanparker 

I don't know why this would be the case (having trouble keeping the tire where you put it), but nylon cable ties work to hold a tire in place on a rim. They are often used the obtain a neat mounting of tubular tires already treated with glue.

Start at the valve stem and work both directions away from the valve, snapping the tire's second side onto the rim. When you get a few inches on each side done, push up the valve stem into the tire to seat it then pull it back down toward the rim. Then continue working around the tire evenly on both sides of the stem. Is it possible you have the tube inflated too much?

Eldrid

Thanks again,
my previous post posted itself a bit prematurely.
What it feels like is that the tire seems to lack enough curvature to fit between the rims, and it is too stiff to stay in place when I try to do it.
It is not flat, but rather wide between the beads, I can put the wheel inside the tire...
If I pinch it between my fingers while it is off and try to fit it in between the rims (or 'on the rim'? not sure about the terminology here), I cannot not do it, whilst my old tire fitted in neatly.
The problem is there even without the inner tube being inside, so it is not about that I think.
Does this make sense?

RollCNY

Take a picture. Post picture here.

ARPRINCE

This tool is a hand saver. I don't ride without one.



Looks like OP has a different fitting problem though.

Ghost Ryder

May the words of the immortal Mr. Sheldon Brown always grace us forever more!

Eldrid

I cannot take a picture at the moment, but: I've had a brainwave.
I think the problem is that the tire actually does not have the shape of a tire, it needs to be folded into shape first, so the cross section has a shape closer to the U or Ω rather than the ( shape that it has now. So I have wrapped and tied it around so the beads are nearly touching and will leave it like that over night.
Will keep you updated how it turns out!

rpenmanparker 

I understand what you are saying and new folding tires are often flat and difficult to mold to the shape they will have after proper mounting. You solution is likely going to help. Once you put the first bead of the tire on the rim, it usually helps you to get the second one on afterward since the first bead gets held in place by the rim edge. It might help you to try putting one bead of the tire on, then the tube NOT INFLATED AT ALL. Then snap the second bead into place. Don't inflate the tube at all to help you keep it from being pinched until you get part way around tucking the second bead in. But that time everything should be formed to the right shape.

Crappymonkey

This thing is awesome. If you don't have one, get one.

Dudelsack 

Eldrid, I feel your pain. I mounted those same tires, and my hands ached for two months.

I bought one of those gizmos above, but have not had to use it yet. They're not very small, but I have a big bag, so to speak.

Most people running those tires aren't too worried about blazing speed, anyway.

Ghost Ryder

I have 2 of these. 1 for the shop, & 1 for the saddlebag.

https://www.mec.ca/product/5023-709/p...10+50002+50530

I'm going to check out that Kool stop bead jack.

Beaker

Wait, what?

009jim

Let me start by supposing your tire has the numbers of the clock written on it. You must ensure that the bead of the tire at the 6 oclock position is right down on the bottom of the rim directly over the spokes, before your try to pop the last portion of the bead at the 12 oclock position over the rim. If you do that I would be surprised if you can't do it with just your thumbs.

Ghost Ryder

Good catch!
Damn autocorrect!

Edited.

rpenmanparker 

For the road get a VAR tool. Works similarly but much smaller.

2 wheeler

^^This^^, but I would say reduce the air in the tube, I think that is what's pushing the second bead off.

Less air in the tube.

catonec 

the crank brothers speed lever may help in the fact that the handle extends and clips onto your axle. this allows you to use 2 hands while it keeps a third point of pressure against the tire.

Eldrid

Success!



After posting here I had long think about what the problem was and once I identified it I managed to find a solution which worked.

I got the point about the air in the tube pushing the tire off, but generally I didn't put almost any air into the tube and when I was wrestling with the whole thing I had no tube in at all.

Problem: tire too stiff, and wrong shape. The bead was pushing out of the rim because the rubber did not want to remain in the curved shape required to stay on the wheel, the material retained the memory of its shape like a spring that returns to it original length after being stretched, that's why it kept popping out. The fact that the rubber is stiff meant that it did not remain in the position on the rim and it jumped back to its original shape.

Solution: stretch the tire and tuck the beads underneath the thread area, wrap it tightly with flat string into the tube shape it would have once on the wheel, with beads as close to each other as possible. Then basically walked on the inside of the tire in socks trying to increase the flexibility of the rubber and trying to reinforce the fold. Also went around it squeezing it in my fist into the required tube shape. The aim was to 'break' the rubber a bit, increase its flexibility and to manually mould it into the required shape. Then left it tied up for the night.
In the morning I managed to put it on without much trouble: it was still stiff and hard work, but it did not jump out of the rims. I did follow rpenmanparker's suggestion of inflating it after I've put most of the tire on.
I could not really apply the 'proper' technique because the tire was not flexible enough for that and I had to use my tire leaver to put the last bit on, but overall it was relatively easy. What a tire!
*Phew!*
(still the front wheel to change though)