am8117

Anyone here has experience using the kind of road training wheels with 20/24 spoked wheels for gravel use?

I have a favourite cyclocross frame from 2008, wide clearance but limited to rim brakes - which I actually like. I have since used it as a road bike with 15C wheels (Shimano RS-010) with 32mm slick tires and all went well, veering off road occasionally with no problem. As I am planning to put in more aggressive thread there perhaps 37mm wide to take on more muddy surfaces in winter/early spring, I wonder how the heavier tires and harsher rides would trash the cheap road wheels, or not ...

I can see 17C wheels on sale now, but they would again be 20/24 spoked (RS-100). Is it worth lacing own 32/32 spoked wheels for gravel?

I am basically out of luck with modern gravel specific wheels because they are all sold with disc brake hubs, trekking ones are out of question because they come with 135 wide rear hubs which does not fit into 130mm road frame.

DrIsotope

I guess that would come down to what you weigh. Every wheelset I've used on my CX frame has been 24/24, and I ride it absolutely everywhere, at 200+ pounds.

If you're a more typical "cyclist weight" I don't see low spoke counts becoming an issue until you start trying to jump the bike off of things.

Bill Kapaun

You can take a 135mm hub & remove 5mm of axle & spacer from the NDS.
Redish by incrementally loosing the NDS spokes.
It won't take much, so don't go over 1/4T the 1st time.

Sure you have ROOM for that large of a tire?

dsbrantjr

If you have the skills and inclination to build up a set of stout wheels I would suggest doing so. Or, if the frame is steel I wouldn't hesitate to cold-set it to 135mm and put a trekking wheelset on.

Marcus_Ti

It is all about how much you weigh, and how strong the rims are, and what hubset you mate (with associated bracing angles). Some rims are noodles or cannot take much tension, some hubsets don't have great bracing. Some people are too big, or too "heavy on the bike".

woodcraft

These have proven to be pretty bomber....

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Mavic-Ksyri...4383.l4275.c10

ThermionicScott 

Just go try it. If they break, you'll know. If they never break, sweet.

tomtomtom123

Don't say the b word. You're going to get flagged by a secret database.

Retro Grouch 

You can't determine how strong something is going to be by just looking at one part of it. You have to evaluate the product as a whole.

Look at a classic Open Pro wheelset. Notice how low the section height is. Now look at a more modern low spoke count wheelset. See how much deeper the section height measures. The deeper rim is obviously stronger so it needs fewer spokes.

WizardOfBoz

When I was much younger, I'd want everything optimized for weight and quality. Even though I weighed 100kg. Ooh! Ooh! 20 spoke wheels! Great! As I got older I realized that there were significant downsides to overoptimizing. I got suspicious about the strength of lower spoke-count wheels. Probably too much so.

That said, I think that there's a tradeoff here. You can choose between lower spoke-count (possibly lighter, and more en vogue) and higher spoke count (stronger and possibly heavier). But the decision is based upon several factors.

If you are a heavier rider, this favors higher spoke count. A lighter rider can consider fewer spokes.
If you are an aggressive rider on rough, rocky trails, this favors higher spoke count. A more cautious rider on smooth trails can consider fewer spokes.
If you are willing to futz around, trade out wheels, accept broken spokes and (possibly) a broken rim, this favors fewer spokes. If you want more reliability, this favors a higher spoke count.

I think that this last point is the one that may be most helpful. How much are reliability and avoiding having to fix things issues for you?

Having said all that, the fanciest (at least the highest price - $6K) Trek bike that is identified as a "gravel bike" uses 24 spoke wheels (if I'm counting correctly). And the level below that (3K$) uses 28 spoke wheels. And I weigh about 240 now, and have been riding on bontrager paradigm elite wheels without issue for a few years, and they use 20/24 spokes.

caloso

I have the 10-speed version of those wheels (R-501) on my CX bike and raced them all season with 37mm tubeless (ghetto setup) and they've been rock solid. I would not hesitate.

caloso

These too.

am8117

Thanks everyone for the quick replies, really appreciated!

Actually I am more like 80+ kg (around 180 pounds), but you got me thinking as this is secondary pair of wheels for winter and maybe touring if need be.

I have since looked at V-brake finished wheels and basically felt like it is easier to build a new one, no savings price-wise either.

I am running a 35mm tire there with good clearance, but that is on a 622x14 rim. I assume 19 one would not add that much to the tire width.

(Before someone tells me I am out of ERTO specs, this is how the original bike came in 2008 and is still showing in the archives of the manufacturer. I always wonder how it is possible that suddenly all those narrow rims that once shipped with CX tires became "not recommended.")

I do not mind building, funnily the Shimano RS-100 17C wheels publish recommended tire width up to 32mm even though ERTO charts happily go way above. I wonder why, but prefer 19C rim in the end anyhow I guess.

am8117

That's pretty interesting! May I know what tires and at what pressure? I really like the RS-010 for the price on the road, but then noticed they do not recommend going above 32mm, not even on the RS-100 (which is 17C rim) - probably because they market them as road tires after all.

am8117

After some research I thought about pairing Tiagra hubs (RS-400) with Mavic A119 on 32 spokes 3-cross front and rear. I know the rim is the entry level, but then could not see anything special about A319 in comparison other than maybe higher (?!) weight and durability. If trash the rims, I guess that would be lesson learned.

After all I have the 20/24s for the summer and happy with the slicks on those.

am8117

I was thinking about this, but I also wonder how much more the spokes suffer being shorter with the deeper rims and how much aero - I guess none - benefit does the deep rim provide with CX thread pattern wide tire. I want to stick with alloy wheels and I noticed the more spokes a deeper section rim allows me to skip the heavier it gets. So what's better then ... deeper rims and fewers spokes or shallower ones at 32/32? Some 24mm+ deep alloy rims get pretty heavy (650g+).

am8117

I really liked your answer here, it made me realize I am happy with my "summer" 15C 20/24 rims with the slicks and if I want to feel light I would probably stick to the tarmac and ride on those. For the winter or some muddy terrain, it probably does not matter anymore how much heavier the wheels get. I basically have to accept that 19C rims won't be anywhere near the weight of 15C if I stick to alloy ones.

I do not mind fixing things, but I had a spoke break on me with 32/32 wheels and barely noticed (the bike has cantis) until I got home. I don't think the 20/24 would allow me the same. And yes I can carry spare spokes for eg touring, but changing those on the rear DS which break the most often is not fun when middle of nowhere - I don't want to carry a chain whip.

caloso

WTB Riddlers https://www.wtb.com/products/riddler700c
Great for gravel and dry early season cross races, but definitely not mud tires. I generally rode them around 45 or 50psi. I weigh 170 and was concerned that they would be squirmy on off camber stuff, but it wasn't an issue.

tFUnK

190lbs here, riding 20/24 road wheels on 40mm tires for gravel. Holds up fine, I don't baby my bike but I don't do jumps, drops, etc, either. Over the last 3-4 years I did have true them once or twice, nothing major.