kingsleadhat

So although there are lots commercially available sports drinks and powders, pills, etc it seems easy enough to make some simple ones at home that would likely be as beneficial. I'm SUPPOSING the "likely as beneficial" part. Here's a good base for one, with other ingredients to be added or substituted as desired.

-1/4 cup freshly squeezed lemon juice
-1/2 cup freshly squeezed orange juice
-1 ½ to 2 cups of fresh water
-1/8 teaspoon of sea salt
-2 tablespoons natural sugar or honey, to taste

Of course, it could be made in quantity, various kinds of salt used, etc. Ratio of nutrients would be an issue obviously. I'm wondering if folks have tried making their own road drinks and with what kind of success? Recipes?

Thanks!

RR3

I use a small amount Maltodextrin or waxy maize or potato starch as the "sugar" with sea salt in the bottles on longer Brevets. No flavoring. I carry replacement quantities in empty vitamin bottles....a certain size is perfect to fill two bottles at my desired concentration. The thought of that much citric acid on a long ride makes me want to Ralph right now. I think I paid $50 for a 50 pound bag of Maltodextrin. The waxy Maize is more expensive. Think $10 for 3 pounds but all of it is much cheaper than the commercial stuff although I have used the outrageoulsy expensive Hammer Perpetum with decent success.....around ten times the cost of my home brew.

I do use a bit of honey when making my own gels. Honey is about 40-50% fructose, which I avoid in general due to significant digestion challenges with it (fermentation). I like the texture and binding quality that honey gives to the waxy maize. I melt some 90% Lindt chocolate and mix it into the gel. Also some BCAA. A couple drops of Stevia. A tiny drop of pure vanilla. Sometimes coconut oil. If I have some left over expresso, I might put a few drops of it into the brew. Put it in a tube or Hammer flask. Used two of them on a 400K recently.

Sucrose/glucose/dextrose and honey make relatively high Osmolality solutions that can cause GI issues especially when it is hot and therefore, more care is needed on the concentration to avoid various GI issues than with maltodextrin. I have been intending to experiment/research with blackstrap molasses but have not had the chance......it has a quite a bit of Mg content. I minimize/avoid simple sugars altogether.

For electrolytes, I am not sure if they are needed but I indulge on long rides by rewarding myself with some chocolate milk and a small bag of potato chips or salted almonds or salted cashews (my favorite). For 600k, I will usually take some Mg and other supplements during a bigger sitdown meal. The nuts and milk have quite a bit of minerals and I like the way they taste.

With this approach, I am able to ride pretty hard in the heat on long rides.

GravelMN

I use Morton Lite Salt which is half sodium chloride and half potassium chloride. Just a pinch with a shot of lemon or lime juice in a 24-oz water bottle does the trick. I also use a lot of almonds, dried berries or granola bars containing nuts and dried fruit as on-bike nutrition to assure plenty of calcium and magnesium along with the sodium and potassium.

unterhausen

I had trouble on my first 600k because I put 2 nuun in a bottle and then I ran out of plain water so I was drinking extra electrolytes. I switched to Enduralytes, which I take when I'm feeling like I might cramp. That seems to be a lot better for me. I do drink chocolate milk on rides. Everyone is different, but I do think it wouldn't be too hard to take too many electrolytes if it was in a bottle.

GravelMN

That's the problem with a lot of sports nutrition. People get the idea that if one is good two is better. Electrolytes need to be replaced in the proper amounts and in proper balance. They are not performance enhancing drugs, they are nutrients that (among other things) are involved in the conduction of nerve impulses, muscle contraction and regulation of hydration. Too much or out of balance is just as bad as too little. Endurance athletes (even recreational ones) get so concerned over hyponatremia that they often go bonkers in the other direction.

The sports nutrition industry doesn't help as they hype their concoctions as if you can't survive without them even in a quick game of basketball with the boys. It makes me shake my head when I see people gulping electrolyte sports drinks and slamming sports gels half way through a two-hour recreational B-group ride in 75F weather.

unterhausen

I had two nuun in my bottle because I had managed to get two tablets stuck together and I didn't feel like separating them. Big mistake, what I realized later was that I was essentially suffering from dehydration. When I got some water everything got better.

I first learned about enduralytes from people on a 200k that carry around a sandwich baggie full of them. If I'm having a really bad ride, which usually means a difficult early-season 200km brevet, I might end up taking 4 or 5 enduralytes. More usual is if I have a cramp and I take one. Last year on the 1000km brevet I DNF'ed, I had severe cramping in just about every major muscle group in both legs at about 100 miles. I guess I didn't eat right and it was much hotter than anything I had experienced last year. I sat in the shade for a half hour, ate, drank, and took two enduralytes and that got me to the first overnight stop with no more cramping problems.

jfowler85

High particle solutions in the gi tract are only an issue if the solution is hyper- or hypo-tonic relative to the environment of the gi tract. In this instance, we would assume the solution to be hypertonic and therefore cause water to be drawn into the gi tract against its concentration gradient relative to the solution. This extra fluid in the gi tract then tends to give a feeling of indigestion and can produce watery stools.

In a combat medicine course taught by the physician in charge of the medical team which responded to the USS Cole bombing, we divided the class into 3 groups and conducted a semi-experiment to observe the effects of hydration fluids on output. 1/3 consumed reconstituted hydration salts, 1/3 water, and 1/3 Gatorade, all in copious amounts. I was in the water group. The folks in the Gatorade group, and even more so and more quickly in the salts group, eventually began to experience the start of what we would normally associate with dehydration (hypernatremia has similar symptoms to hyponatremia) and eventually got the runs. This, however, was after 2-3 quarts on a an empty stomach over the period of a couple hours.

The key is moderation. If a strong solution is desired, consume it slowly in small quantities. Also don't forget that neuro electrolytes comprise potassium, calcium and magnesium as well as sodium. Sugar and other minerals are not electrolytes.

Simple sugars are not necessarily a bad thing. After so long, the pancreas starts pumping glucagon into the body, which raises blood glucose levels for sustained energy. Once glucose stores begin to deplete the body can begin the process of metabolizing itself for protein and fat energies. Also, the brain's source of energy is glucose.

RR3

Gastric empyting or lack thereof can be a problem when ingesting simple sugars. Ambient temperature, humidity, and exercise output are key variables on top of the type of sugar and concentration. I'm a low carb guy but simple sugars at an isotonic concentration will not provide sufficient fuel at 4-6% concentration. Anyone drinking Gatoraid type drinks is asking for a problem on long endurance rides.


I have not seen many studies applicable to long distance and endurance cyclists. They test for only a few hours.

The US Army has cut their copious fluid replenishment requirements approximately in half after hyponatremia killed and/or hospitalized soliders.

https://www.hammernutrition.com/hnt/297/

Caloric Intake - Proper Amounts During Endurance Exercise | Hammer Nutrition

https://hprc-online.org/nutrition/fil...id-replacement

https://cjasn.asnjournals.org/content/2/1/151.full

Carbonfiberboy 

I'm with unterhausen: one should have pure water separate from both food and electrolytes. I do use a concentrated liquid food but it contains no electrolytes and is separate from my water. The ratio of electrolytes to water is going to vary with temperature and effort. IME sports drinks are OK for shortish rides where one won't be out long enough for things to go seriously sideways.

RR3

good point about plain water. if you are ingesting gels or real food, you need water to go with it. i don't usually eat much food or gels on the bike so what works for me is having a fairly dilute complex carb solution in both bottles and filling them back up every 50-60 miles. Some proteins and fats no later than 5 hours into the ride goes well for me. I rode recently with a very fast lady like world class genes and she was eating GORP and Jerky and also homemade cookies. No fancy powders. Guess I am trying to say we all have to figure out what works. If you are farting and are bloated with cramps or nausea especially if your head hurts, something is wrong. Vomiting? Serious intake problem.

Anybody every stop and ask a homeowner to squirt them down with a hose on a hot ride? I was looking for sprinkler on a ride recently....I swear, I would would have drenched myself if I found one. I did a really long hot climb touring in the Alps (bike was about 100 lbs all in so I labored up it) and after the descent, I jumped into a mountain lake that was probably 34 F. Man, it felt good.....almost better than a full night's sleep.

thebulls

My doctor says that as long as you have normal kidney function (i.e. don't have hepatitis, aids, or whatever) then any extra electrolytes are just excreted. This was his response when I told him that in really hot weather when riding superhard, I often need to take half a dozen endurolytes an hour to keep from cramping. I was worried that I might be at some risk of taking too much. Can you cite any studies that show that my doctor is wrong and it's possible to take too many electrolytes?

Nick

Carbonfiberboy 

I believe your doctor is wrong. Severe hypernatremia does happen and is not good: Hypernatraemia. Information about Hypernatraemia | Patient.co.uk
However what you're doing shouldn't be a problem.

This is the guide I've followed successfully for many years: https://www.hammernutrition.com/downl...OS.pdf?pdf=sos

Six per hour is high, but not unknown. It's OK as long as you are drinking plenty of water. Each cap is 40mg sodium, so that's 240mg/hr. The Guide says 100-600/hr., so that's well within.

unterhausen

my experience is that it might be excreted the wrong way because it's faster and our bodies almost always go for the quick fix in matters like this. That being said, I have never had any gastric distress from eating enduralyes.

thebulls

FWIW, I switched from Endurolytes to Saltsticks because Endurolytes have such small sodium content. Hammer justifies this based on the fact that many American have a high salt diet. I don't and I find that on brevets, I do better when I take in more salt than is supplied in Endurolytes. I tried taking along salt pills but they upset my stomach. I also took the little salt packets that you can get in convenience stores, but they really are a pain. With the increased sodium content of Saltsticks, I rarely take more than one an hour, though on early-season rides when my legs are not up to the climbing or heat then I'll take more.

I've also been making my own homemade electrolyte drink. For each 24-ounce bottle of water, 2 tbs of whey powder, 2 tbs of dehydrated coconut juice, and 2 tsp of sea salt. The electrolyte profile is the same as sweat. The taste is OK. I could probably put some maltodextrin in with it but haven't bothered, so far.

Nick

unterhausen

I've wondered about adding a little salt to my carbo/protein mix for hot weather.

RR3

Salt and carbs can increase water absorbtion in the small intestine assuming the osmolality is correct to get it out of the stomach (there are plenty of studies on this). I am not scientific about what I add but I do add a little pinch of sea salt to my home made Gel and also to powders used later in the ride and I'll have salted nuts and a milk later, too. It is usually cool early in rides and I figure my salt needs are low but maybe I should be consuming salt then, too. I notice that when I am not heat acclimated or not fit, I get crusty salt deposits on my forehead during long hot rides and my salt needs seem to vary accordingly. When acclimated to heat and fit, I get zero salt deposits and my sweat does not sting my eyes. Just an observation.

That was an extremely hilly PA 600K in humid 90-93F temperatures. Brutal. To my untrained eye, some riders looked puffy and seemed overly groggy and sort of out of it at the hostel while others seemed fine and alert. Fitness differences? Hydration issues? Normal at 400K on a tough route? Hyponatremia? The differences between riders was stark.

I've been reading up on this stuff because I am considering doing the 508 mile race in the desert this September. Heat acclimation seems like a more important factor rather than sodium intake but I am really still learning.

https://www.sportsci.org/2006/wghdrinks.pdf

https://www.ultracycling.com/section...ectrolytes.php

Hydration - What You Need to Know | Hammer Nutrition

Nutrition Journal | Full text | Water and sodium intake habits and status of ultra-endurance runners during a multi-stage ultra-marathon conducted in a hot ambient environment: an observational field based study

unterhausen

24 hours of riding vs. 18-20 hours of riding makes a big difference in the amount of grogginess/alertness. I wasn't fit enough for that ride at the temperatures we experienced, that's for sure. I assume that's why I had stomach issues and flirted with cramping issues all day the first day. Funny thing is, if it had been the normal route that goes past a diner just after the first control on the second day, I probably would have been able to recover from my problems and finish. But I didn't find a substitute stop.

A funny thing happened on the ride. I kept thinking I should eat a banana, but kept forgetting to buy one. I was really dragging between Port Jervis and Water Gap, but Lenny had bananas and I ate one. I was like a new man.

kingsleadhat

Wow, thanks so much for the thorough and thoughtful responses! Real wealth of experience in what you have shared, and it'll take a bit to "digest" what everyone has said.