Why Reinvent the Wheel? (aka another Campagnolo rant)
03-31-20, 11:37 AM
#76
Senior Member
The only people who think that Campy is rare are those who never look outside their local shop. I owned Shimano 8 speed STI, but when I tried Campy 8 speed ergopower in 1994, I immediately liked it better, with it's ability to shift at least 3 cogs larger or smaller with one push of the finger lever or thumb button and the entirely hidden cables. Campy lagged Shimano by one year in introducing 9 speed (1997), but after that, it's Shimano that has always been the follower, 3-4 years behind. They will probably get around to 12 speed for 2021, at least at the DuraAce level. I always bought Campy by mail order - first from discount sources in the US, and later from European sources, that had even better prices.
All reasoning doesn't go out the window when I'm asked why I use Campy. I use it due to their superior brake/shift lever system that has a shorter reach brake hood than the other brands. Their chains last longer than almost every other brand. Wipperman claims that their most expensive chain lasts longer. I haven't ever waited 3-4 years for my brand to catch up with the leader. I've never had anything break or wear out prematurely and the resale value of used Campy parts makes the cost of ownership quite reasonable. I've bought a few Record groupsets over the years, but never any Super Record. Now I only buy Chorus, that gives the best bang for the buck. The new Chorus 12 has the best shifting ever. I specifically got it for the new 48/32 crank and closely spaced 11-34 cassette.
I've owned a few custom wheelsets and used Mavic Ksyriums with the aluminum spokes on several bikes (the only spoke I ever broke). When I got back into cycling back in 2018 after 8 years off, I sold that 10 year old Mavic wheelset with one replaced spoke for a ridiculously high $275, which paid for most of one set of Zondas.
All reasoning doesn't go out the window when I'm asked why I use Campy. I use it due to their superior brake/shift lever system that has a shorter reach brake hood than the other brands. Their chains last longer than almost every other brand. Wipperman claims that their most expensive chain lasts longer. I haven't ever waited 3-4 years for my brand to catch up with the leader. I've never had anything break or wear out prematurely and the resale value of used Campy parts makes the cost of ownership quite reasonable. I've bought a few Record groupsets over the years, but never any Super Record. Now I only buy Chorus, that gives the best bang for the buck. The new Chorus 12 has the best shifting ever. I specifically got it for the new 48/32 crank and closely spaced 11-34 cassette.
I've owned a few custom wheelsets and used Mavic Ksyriums with the aluminum spokes on several bikes (the only spoke I ever broke). When I got back into cycling back in 2018 after 8 years off, I sold that 10 year old Mavic wheelset with one replaced spoke for a ridiculously high $275, which paid for most of one set of Zondas.
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03-31-20, 11:40 AM
#77
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03-31-20, 11:53 AM
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I thought Bontrager's paired spoke stuff was bad, but man...
I'll agree with you on that. My brifter experience is limited to 9 speed Sora, 10 speed Tiagra, and 8s Ergopower, but I the Ergopower is definitely my favorite. I love being able to dump multiple gears at a time. It's something I wish I could do on my mountain bike all the time.
03-31-20, 12:05 PM
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03-31-20, 12:32 PM
#80
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I had a Campy build bike 10 years ago (Centaur 10spd) but have been swapping every part that needs replacing with Shimano or other brands and now left with just the levers and UltraTorque cranks. What pissed me off with Campy was the use of non-standard parts just for the sake of market lock-in (and I don't use Apple any more for the same reason). I mean, why have unique cable ends, brake pad inserts, chainrings etc? So when it came to a wheelset, I didn't even consider Campy. I built a old school wheelset with 32 spoke Mavic Open UST rims (tubeless ready), Sapim laser spokes and a pair of DTswiss 240 hubs I got cheap off ebay cos the they were labeled as Coda- all up about $300 & 1600g/pair. I don't trust low spoke counts, wacky crossings or proprietry spokes. When I break a spoke (and they do break) I want to keep riding till I can fix it and be able to source a spoke easily. And I want to be able to do this in 10 or 20 years time when these are beater bike rims.
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03-31-20, 12:42 PM
#81
Senior Member
Campy is making changes. Only the new 19mm wide disc brake model is available in a model that can be converted to tubeless. It's not tubeless ready as sold.
Zondas used to be considered tubeless, but not now. I haven't researched it because I have no interest in tubeless, but I believe the problem lies in a lack of one standard that all tire and rim brands adhere to for tubeless.
https://www.campagnolo.com/US/en/Whe...cco_disc_brake
https://www.campagnolo.com/media/fil...02_08_2018.pdf
The rim brake model still has a 17mm internal width rim and is not considered to be able to convert to tubeless.
https://www.campagnolo.com/US/en/Wheels/wheel_scirocco
Zondas used to be considered tubeless, but not now. I haven't researched it because I have no interest in tubeless, but I believe the problem lies in a lack of one standard that all tire and rim brands adhere to for tubeless.
https://www.campagnolo.com/US/en/Whe...cco_disc_brake
https://www.campagnolo.com/media/fil...02_08_2018.pdf
The rim brake model still has a 17mm internal width rim and is not considered to be able to convert to tubeless.
https://www.campagnolo.com/US/en/Wheels/wheel_scirocco
Last edited by DaveSSS; 03-31-20 at 12:58 PM.
03-31-20, 12:53 PM
#82
Senior Member
I had a Campy build bike 10 years ago (Centaur 10spd) but have been swapping every part that needs replacing with Shimano or other brands and now left with just the levers and UltraTorque cranks. What pissed me off with Campy was the use of non-standard parts just for the sake of market lock-in (and I don't use Apple any more for the same reason). I mean, why have unique cable ends, brake pad inserts, chainrings etc? So when it came to a wheelset, I didn't even consider Campy. I built a old school wheelset with 32 spoke Mavic Open UST rims (tubeless ready), Sapim laser spokes and a pair of DTswiss 240 hubs I got cheap off ebay cos the they were labeled as Coda- all up about $300 & 1600g/pair. I don't trust low spoke counts, wacky crossings or proprietry spokes. When I break a spoke (and they do break) I want to keep riding till I can fix it and be able to source a spoke easily. And I want to be able to do this in 10 or 20 years time when these are beater bike rims.
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03-31-20, 01:27 PM
#83
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The only people who think that Campy is rare are those who never look outside their local shop. I owned Shimano 8 speed STI, but when I tried Campy 8 speed ergopower in 1994, I immediately liked it better, with it's ability to shift at least 3 cogs larger or smaller with one push of the finger lever or thumb button and the entirely hidden cables. Campy lagged Shimano by one year in introducing 9 speed (1997), but after that, it's Shimano that has always been the follower, 3-4 years behind. They will probably get around to 12 speed for 2021, at least at the DuraAce level. I always bought Campy by mail order - first from discount sources in the US, and later from European sources, that had even better prices.
All reasoning doesn't go out the window when I'm asked why I use Campy. I use it due to their superior brake/shift lever system that has a shorter reach brake hood than the other brands. Their chains last longer than almost every other brand. Wipperman claims that their most expensive chain lasts longer. I haven't ever waited 3-4 years for my brand to catch up with the leader. I've never had anything break or wear out prematurely and the resale value of used Campy parts makes the cost of ownership quite reasonable. I've bought a few Record groupsets over the years, but never any Super Record. Now I only buy Chorus, that gives the best bang for the buck. The new Chorus 12 has the best shifting ever. I specifically got it for the new 48/32 crank and closely spaced 11-34 cassette.
I've owned a few custom wheelsets and used Mavic Ksyriums with the aluminum spokes on several bikes (the only spoke I ever broke). When I got back into cycling back in 2018 after 8 years off, I sold that 10 year old Mavic wheelset with one replaced spoke for a ridiculously high $275, which paid for most of one set of Zondas.
All reasoning doesn't go out the window when I'm asked why I use Campy. I use it due to their superior brake/shift lever system that has a shorter reach brake hood than the other brands. Their chains last longer than almost every other brand. Wipperman claims that their most expensive chain lasts longer. I haven't ever waited 3-4 years for my brand to catch up with the leader. I've never had anything break or wear out prematurely and the resale value of used Campy parts makes the cost of ownership quite reasonable. I've bought a few Record groupsets over the years, but never any Super Record. Now I only buy Chorus, that gives the best bang for the buck. The new Chorus 12 has the best shifting ever. I specifically got it for the new 48/32 crank and closely spaced 11-34 cassette.
I've owned a few custom wheelsets and used Mavic Ksyriums with the aluminum spokes on several bikes (the only spoke I ever broke). When I got back into cycling back in 2018 after 8 years off, I sold that 10 year old Mavic wheelset with one replaced spoke for a ridiculously high $275, which paid for most of one set of Zondas.
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03-31-20, 01:30 PM
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03-31-20, 02:01 PM
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03-31-20, 02:06 PM
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03-31-20, 02:42 PM
#89
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Yeah, come to SoFla and you'll see plenty of tri-geeks that use not just regular Campagnolo but EPS, especially on Cervelos. It isn't as popular as ****mano but it's there.
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03-31-20, 02:46 PM
#90
Senior Member
Okay - so you *are* saying that a manufacturer's suggested price is no basis upon which to judge value, a leaky distribution system is a feature and things like local availability and warranty support should be neither here nor there w/r/t value, etc, etc.
Cool, cool - good to know.
Cool, cool - good to know.
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03-31-20, 02:50 PM
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Thanks but no.
Also, per the Kona bike count, there were a total of nineteen bikes at Kona 2019 with Campy, total. That's out of nearly 2400, or in other words not quite eight tenths of a percent. Guess the SoFla bros are slow. That or all the Campy slows them down.
https://www.triathlete.com/events/ir...o-reign-again/
Also, per the Kona bike count, there were a total of nineteen bikes at Kona 2019 with Campy, total. That's out of nearly 2400, or in other words not quite eight tenths of a percent. Guess the SoFla bros are slow. That or all the Campy slows them down.
https://www.triathlete.com/events/ir...o-reign-again/
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03-31-20, 02:51 PM
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Cool, cool - good to know.
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03-31-20, 02:52 PM
#93
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Thanks but no.
Also, per the Kona bike count, there were a total of nineteen bikes at Kona 2019 with Campy, total. That's out of nearly 2400, or in other words not quite eight tenths of a percent. Guess the SoFla bros are slow. That or all the Campy slows them down.
https://www.triathlete.com/events/ir...o-reign-again/
Also, per the Kona bike count, there were a total of nineteen bikes at Kona 2019 with Campy, total. That's out of nearly 2400, or in other words not quite eight tenths of a percent. Guess the SoFla bros are slow. That or all the Campy slows them down.
https://www.triathlete.com/events/ir...o-reign-again/
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03-31-20, 02:56 PM
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Those are the numbers that are published. They're also an indication of what the people who know what they're doing are doing, and that's running not-Campy. Do you have literally any evidence to back up your assertions? Race pics? Anything?
03-31-20, 03:05 PM
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Straw man alert? Y'all are comparing distribution inadequacies instead of products and their intended competition. They're hanging US retailers out to dry by not stopping gray market goods (which is probably why they're not too well represented in the US) and shortchanging US customers on support and y'all are listing that as a benefit. What's next - I know a guy that knows a guy that found some wheelsets that fell off the back of a truck, so therefor value should be established based upon that? Gimme a break.
03-31-20, 03:07 PM
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03-31-20, 03:09 PM
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