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A Year with AXS Red, Can It Be Improved?

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A Year with AXS Red, Can It Be Improved?

Old 04-06-20, 08:31 AM
  #26  
noodle soup
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Originally Posted by datlas
I am considering SRAM because my bike is not set up for internal cables.
The Habanero? I'd have a Ti framebuilder modify it.
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Old 04-06-20, 09:04 AM
  #27  
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Originally Posted by noodle soup
The Habanero? I'd have a Ti framebuilder modify it.
Yes, the Habanero. I will consider this, but unclear how expensive it would be and what may be compromised as far as structural integrity. Thanks for the idea!
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Old 04-06-20, 09:22 AM
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Originally Posted by datlas
Yes, the Habanero. I will consider this, but unclear how expensive it would be and what may be compromised as far as structural integrity. Thanks for the idea!
​​​​​​

Probably cheaper to drill and use Ui2 than just AXS. And drilling new holes in steel and Ti is no big deal structurally - there’s nothing extra done to the frames that come that way.
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Old 04-06-20, 09:39 AM
  #29  
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Originally Posted by Bah Humbug
​​​​​​

Probably cheaper to drill and use Ui2 than just AXS. And drilling new holes in steel and Ti is no big deal structurally - there’s nothing extra done to the frames that come that way.
Not a bad idea but I don't know if I can DIY, I don't know enough about frame structure to do it safely. I can ask one of the local builders to give me an estimate. If it can be done safely and only takes an hour of their time, I am willing. Although I may still wait for later this year to hear about next iteration of Di2, there is rumor it might be wireless (or hybrid wireless with just a wire between RD/FD/Battery).
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Old 04-06-20, 09:52 AM
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Originally Posted by datlas
Not a bad idea but I don't know if I can DIY, I don't know enough about frame structure to do it safely. I can ask one of the local builders to give me an estimate. If it can be done safely and only takes an hour of their time, I am willing. Although I may still wait for later this year to hear about next iteration of Di2, there is rumor it might be wireless (or hybrid wireless with just a wire between RD/FD/Battery).
Oh yes, I was still meaning for a framebuilder to do it. It should still be cheaper than AXS. And I wouldn’t hold my breath for wireless Shimano next year, or that it would be better than SRAM.
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Old 04-06-20, 10:46 AM
  #31  
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Originally Posted by noodle soup
+1

I can't thing of any reason to use SRAM.
Some people prefer the shift actuation and interface of SRAM over the others.
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Old 04-06-20, 11:08 AM
  #32  
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Sram e-tap incl with my Canyon Ultimate shifts like butter, after 3 years, many miles, OG chainrings and cassette
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Old 04-06-20, 12:31 PM
  #33  
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I've been using campy mechanical for over 25 years and never had the cable problems that others have written about. The issue with SRAM and shimano changing to 12 speed is the changes to the freehub bodies that obsoletes a lot of wheels. SRAM went to the XDR freehub and I expect shimano to go with microspline. Campy users have used the same freehub since 1997 9 speed. Also amusing is the fact that Campy hubs can take a shimano/sram 10/11 freehub or XDR for SRAM 12, in addition to Campy 9-12 speed. Not sure if microspline is possible but fulcrum makes MTB wheels with it.

Anyone who rides 10,000 miles a year has many maintenance items to attend to cablesu, like many tires, many chains, worn out handlebar tape, BB bearings that may need changed and hubs needing maintenance. Even electronic derailleurs need some lube and replacement of jockey pulleys. Having two bikes makes perfect sense for high mileage riders. If you ride that much and can't change your own cables, then two bikes allows one to be in the shop while the other gets ridden.
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Old 04-06-20, 12:51 PM
  #34  
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Originally Posted by DaveSSS
I've been using campy mechanical for over 25 years and never had the cable problems that others have written about. The issue with SRAM and shimano changing to 12 speed is the changes to the freehub bodies that obsoletes a lot of wheels. SRAM went to the XDR freehub and I expect shimano to go with microspline. Campy users have used the same freehub since 1997 9 speed. Also amusing is the fact that Campy hubs can take a shimano/sram 10/11 freehub or XDR for SRAM 12, in addition to Campy 9-12 speed. Not sure if microspline is possible but fulcrum makes MTB wheels with it.
Most aftermarket hubs have freehub bodies that can be swapped, so it's not really that big of an issue for people that are already setup with 11spd.
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Old 04-06-20, 03:11 PM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by noodle soup
Most aftermarket hubs have freehub bodies that can be swapped, so it's not really that big of an issue for people that are already setup with 11spd.
It's a big deal for anyone with genuine shimano hubs that can't be changed. Someone was recently saying that shimano has the only properly made hubs in existence. The rest work like campy hubs. I know that zipp hubs work with XDR, since sram owns them.

Right now, microspline is only available on hubs with longer spacing than 130mm road bike, AFAIK
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Old 04-06-20, 03:54 PM
  #36  
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Originally Posted by DaveSSS
It's a big deal for anyone with genuine shimano hubs that can't be changed. Someone was recently saying that shimano has the only properly made hubs in existence. The rest work like campy hubs. I know that zipp hubs work with XDR, since sram owns them.

Right now, microspline is only available on hubs with longer spacing than 130mm road bike, AFAIK
you are correct about Shimano hubs not being upgradable(AFAIK). 130mm spacing is a dying breed on road bikes. Nearly everything with discs is 142mm, or at least 135mm.

I know DT has micro-spline freehub bodies for current hubs, but I haven’t checked if they work on 130/131mm spaced hubs.
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Old 04-06-20, 03:58 PM
  #37  
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You can get Di2 quality out of AXS, but only on a single speed.
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Old 04-06-20, 06:20 PM
  #38  
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You know what the take home is for me? It's not just one or two people who've had bad experiences with SRAM, and after being here a while, you can tell there are some highly competent people who just say no to SRAM, at least for road components. Shimano seems to just work for everybody, and pretty damn well. (I get the sense it doesn't matter whether Campagnolo works or not, that isn't the point.)
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Old 04-06-20, 07:35 PM
  #39  
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I built up my Tarmac with Force 12 speed axs. And upgraded my #2 Tarmac to 11 speed Red axs whifli (or whatever they call it)
Love It. Shifting performance is reasonable on the force bike a fantastic on the red bike.
My only complaint is the shenanigans they pulled to make everything proprietary.
I've been a Sram guy since 2012. Never looked back.
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Old 04-06-20, 08:35 PM
  #40  
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Originally Posted by RedBullFiXX
Sram e-tap incl with my Canyon Ultimate shifts like butter, after 3 years, many miles, OG chainrings and cassette
Did you ever have any minor issues with skipped shifts? If so, how did you remedy them? The Canyon Ultimate looks like a fantastic bike!
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Old 04-07-20, 08:05 AM
  #41  
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Originally Posted by justonwo
Did you ever have any minor issues with skipped shifts? If so, how did you remedy them? The Canyon Ultimate looks like a fantastic bike!
Shifting has only improved with time, the system is not picky about chain brands
Di2, and Eps shift faster, and imo are better at cross-chain shifts
I'm not much of a cross-chain rider so etap is great for me

A friend has a new Trek with axs, coming from years of campy, and he loves it
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Old 04-07-20, 09:05 AM
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Right now, the only way to get a decent price on any AXS group is buying it on a new prebuilt bike. The aftermarket group price is very high. While it may be worth it for some high mileage riders, to eliminate cables, I had no problem deciding to buy two Campy Chorus 12 groups instead of one SRAM Force 12 group.

Another thing to keep in mind, when riding high mileage is nothing lasts forever, even with good maintenance. When one of those derailleurs quits working, you just toss it and buy another.

https://www.competitivecyclist.com/s...ear-derailleur
https://www.texascyclesport.com/camp...ar-derailleur/

https://www.competitivecyclist.com/s...NjQ2F0MTAwMDg4
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Old 04-07-20, 09:50 AM
  #43  
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Originally Posted by DaveSSS
Right now, the only way to get a decent price on any AXS group is buying it on a new prebuilt bike. The aftermarket group price is very high. While it may be worth it for some high mileage riders, to eliminate cables, I had no problem deciding to buy two Campy Chorus 12 groups instead of one SRAM Force 12 group.

Another thing to keep in mind, when riding high mileage is nothing lasts forever, even with good maintenance. When one of those derailleurs quits working, you just toss it and buy another.

https://www.competitivecyclist.com/s...ear-derailleur
https://www.texascyclesport.com/camp...ar-derailleur/

https://www.competitivecyclist.com/s...NjQ2F0MTAwMDg4
By the time you actually wear out a derailleur, they have added another cog or something and turned it into old tech. 11 speed is about to become old tech and I am nowhere near wearing out any of my 11 speed groups
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Old 04-07-20, 10:09 AM
  #44  
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Originally Posted by colnago62
By the time you actually wear out a derailleur, they have added another cog or something and turned it into old tech. 11 speed is about to become old tech and I am nowhere near wearing out any of my 11 speed groups
12spd isn't a big improvement unless you want to run a huge cassette. Going from 10spd to 11spd added a very useful 18t cog, to the 12-25t 10spd cassette I preferred to use.

12spd SRAM offers a tightly spaced 10-26t cassette, but even if Shimano was to offer a cassette like this on the next generation Dura-Ace, I can't see the real benefit for my riding.
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Old 04-07-20, 02:35 PM
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Originally Posted by noodle soup
12spd isn't a big improvement unless you want to run a huge cassette. Going from 10spd to 11spd added a very useful 18t cog, to the 12-25t 10spd cassette I preferred to use.

12spd SRAM offers a tightly spaced 10-26t cassette, but even if Shimano was to offer a cassette like this on the next generation Dura-Ace, I can't see the real benefit for my riding.
Makes sense. I spend most of my time in the hills, so the 10-33 cassette works really well for me. I also get one higher gear than with my Di2 setup. I believe I have two lower gears, which allows me to spin a bit more up the really steep hills.
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Old 04-07-20, 04:02 PM
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Originally Posted by noodle soup
12spd isn't a big improvement unless you want to run a huge cassette. Going from 10spd to 11spd added a very useful 18t cog, to the 12-25t 10spd cassette I preferred to use.

12spd SRAM offers a tightly spaced 10-26t cassette, but even if Shimano was to offer a cassette like this on the next generation Dura-Ace, I can't see the real benefit for my riding.
I was fine with ten, but so it goes. My point wasn’t what comes next and whether it useful, but that modern equipment takes a lot of riding to wear out to the point it needs replacing.
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Old 04-07-20, 07:16 PM
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Originally Posted by colnago62
I have a friend who rides 12,000 miles a year. He has his cables replaced two to three times a year. The more you ride, the more you shift. The more you ride in the rain, the more likely your cables will get water in them, which causes corrosion. One Di2 first came out, there was a video where team mechanics were asked about what they liked most about Di2 and it was that there was no need to do adjustments once the bike was setup.
Those are good scenarios for adjustments. That's a huge amount of miles!
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Old 04-07-20, 08:56 PM
  #48  
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Originally Posted by RiceAWay
There is no such thing as dialing in a manual group by anyone. By their nature you have the ability to jam it into another gear regardless of loads and conditions. This means that you can get your system working perfectly and three to four weeks later it is jumping gears because of wear in the shifting systems somewhere. My Campy drove me absolutely crazy until I changed over to Di2. I won't go back.
A common issue is that cable housing ferrules aren't seated properly on installation; this makes for the phenomenon people call 'cable stretch' which isn't really a thing. Reef on your freshly-installed cables before adjustment.

As for a single reason why SRAM over Shimano, there's not much to be had, but concerning mechanical, SRAM's longer cable pull means less cable fraying inside the shifter, more accurate indexing and finer adjustment.
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Old 04-07-20, 09:04 PM
  #49  
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Originally Posted by Kimmo
A common issue is that cable housing ferrules aren't seated properly on installation; this makes for the phenomenon people call 'cable stretch' which isn't really a thing. Reef on your freshly-installed cables before adjustment.
the term cable stretch drove me crazy when I worked as a marine mechanic.

On most boats the shift/throttle cables are a solid piece of stainless steel wire. The cable isn't stretching, but the housing is collapsing. The same thing is true on bicycles.
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Old 04-08-20, 07:12 AM
  #50  
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Originally Posted by colnago62
By the time you actually wear out a derailleur, they have added another cog or something and turned it into old tech. 11 speed is about to become old tech and I am nowhere near wearing out any of my 11 speed groups
Campy users have been on 11 speed since late 2008. Shimano users not nearly as long. Riding 12,000 miles a year will wear out a RD. I rarely ride more than 5,000 a year, and now only about 4,000 being almost 67 with two replaced knees. The real point is you can buy a lot of cables for the huge price difference between electronic and mechanical derailleurs.

Having multiple bikes also increases the time span before replacements are needed. I usually have two bikes. I've never replaced a derailleur or a chain ring on a bike, because of wear. I've trashed shift levers in a wreck. I sell off the old stuff eventually and get something newer or better. Campy Chorus 12 came along just at the right time for me.
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