guadzilla

Hi guys - need some advice on a tubeless flat.

Recently, i got a flat in my rear GP5000s. After a while, it did seal up but with very little air pressure - I was able to complete the ride, but i had something like 20 or 30psi in my rear wheel. I left the wheel overnight flat-size down - next morning, when i tried to pump it up, the hole started squirting sealant again. In short, it sealed but only at low pressures.

What are my options? I've put a tube in there and am riding it as such, but is there a way to keep it tubeless? Perhaps add more sealant and leave it for a longer time or something?

WhyFi

First, what sealant are you using? My experience is that Orange Seal will hold at road pressures, whereas most of the "road tubeless sucks!" stuff that I see online involves sealants better suited to MTB pressures, like Stan's. In 3+ years of running OS, I've had one Goldilocks puncture - one that was too big for OS to seal but too small to ruin the tire.

If you're running an appropriate sealant and you get a Goldilocks puncture, the first thing I'd do is try a plug like a bacon strip or similar - they're little ropes coated in rubbery stuff. They'll come with an insertion tool and make for a quick roadside repair that is often permanent. My single Goldilocks puncture was just a little too large to be permanently sealed with a bacon strip, though it could have gotten me home at a decent pressure; it was a 1/4" cut through the casing, so I ended up patching the tire internally with a normal tube patch kit.

DrIsotope

^^^ Pretty much everything he said. If the tire is getting long in the tooth I just plug it. If the tire is new-ish, it gets patched on the inside with a normal tube patch. Just patched one a few days ago.

alo

I would patch the tire on the inside.

noodle soup

I agree with @WhyFi and @DrIsotope.

I carry one of these Dynaplug® Online Store | Dynaplug® Racer - Tubeless Bicycle Tire Repair Kit and a CO2 inflation device to get me home. Then I'll determine if the tire is worth saving with a patch.

guadzilla

Thanks for that info, guys. Erm, I actually dont know what sealant i am using - I had the LBS convert the wheels to tubeless while i had the bike in there for some servicing. I didnt even realize there was a significant difference between different types of sealant! i will try to pick up Orange Seal and also the Dynaplug.

Re the plug - I dont know if it was referring to this one or a different one, but i did read that the plug itself sticks out of the wheel and can bang into the frame of road bikes. Is that something to be aware of?

Lastly, i had the flat around 3-4 months since i set up the tubeless - in pretty hot tropical weather. Could that also have affected the efficacy of the sealant?

(This is my first time running tubeless, as you may have guessed from the utter cluelessness on dispaly here. I had actually given up on tubeless after this and a couple of sidewall cuts on Pro Ones, but the really nice ride of my Rapid Airs is causing me to give tubeless one more go).

jimincalif

Yes - Orange Seal works better at higher pressures than Stans.

Yes to DynaPlug (or maybe the new Stans plugs that supposedly react with latex sealant). When I finally changed out my last tubeless tire it had 3 DynaPlugs in it and they were holding fine. I changed the tire because it was worn out. I never patched from the inside, just ran with the plugs and it was fine.

Plug sticks out slightly when first put it, but the excess wears off quickly. Can't imagine it would strike the frame unless you had very little clearance, such that routine road debris would also get jammed between the tire and frame. Some of the DynaPlug kits come with a blade to cut off the excess. I carry the racer, does not have a blade, it's never been an issue.

3-4 months, you probably need to add sealant, although there was appreciably still some in the tire since it did seal and then you saw more sealant spraying out. You can use something small diameter as a dipstick to check sealant levels by removing the valve core. I use a scrap of derailleur cable.

WhyFi

The plugs can stick out a bit - some tools come with a blade to trim them - but they get squished down pretty quickly when riding (they're very sticky and will quickly become a soft little lump).

In terms of sealant longevity, I usually check my sealant every 6-8 weeks. The smaller bottles of Orange Seal come with a little dipstick - let the air out, remove the valve core and insert the dipstick to check (do this with the bike in a stand otherwise the sealant may get pushed up and out of the stem, making a nice mess).

Most often, the problem is that the levels get too low; some people attribute this to drying, but for me it's usage - I get a lot of punctures that I don't notice and the supply of sealant is exhausted in the process. Occasionally, my sealant will change consistency and get watery instead of the cream consistency when new. I don't know how or why that happens, but it's no longer effective when it does. If the level is low, top it off. If the sealant consistency is bad, remove it and replace it (I'll break the bead and mop it up with paper towels, re-seat and refill though the valve stem).

guadzilla

Awesome - great info there, thank you very much, guys.

Gonna get me some Dynaplugs and also hunt down Orange Seal, and re-do the Racing Zeros.

WhyFi

FWIW, I avoid breaking the beads unless it's going to mean a good deal less work in the long run (getting tires re-seated can be a challenge unless you have a compressor or pressurized canister).

In your case, I would check the levels through the valve stem first - if it's just low, top it off with OS. That I'm aware of, the most popular sealants out there are latex based, so you're probably safe to mix (my understanding is that one big differentiator with OS is that it contains particulate [it looks an awful lot like glitter and may be just that] so that it clogs holes more effectively).

MinnMan

For reasons I posted in a different thread, I'm just learning about tubeless. Can you elaborate a little about this? Did you add the patch on the road, or back home? How do you deal with sealant and sealant residue in the area where the patch goes on? Any special preparation of the inside of the tire to get the patch to work? Does the patch have to be gas-tight, or just cover most of the area and the sealant does the rest?

Thanks

WhyFi

I actually discovered the cut the day after the ride, a 90-miler through Afton, Prescott, Hastings, and back to Mpls, so it held long enough to get me home without noticing. Or maybe it happened a block from home, I dunno.

No special prep - I cleared the area of sealant residue, rubbing it off with the heel of my palm, but that's about it. I may have put I tube in it overnight to press the patch against the casing, but I don't recall for sure. And yeah, it was probably airtight, but I wasn't terribly concerned about it, expecting that the sealant would do its thing.

MinnMan

I did almost exactly that ride about 2 weeks ago as a century. Mpls-Gray Cloud Island, Prescott, Hudson-Mpls.

Thanks for the info.

NoWhammies

This is a very informative thread. Thanks for sharing.

I have a couple of questions regarding plugs and strips of bacon.

1. I have the strips of bacon. From what I can tell, when the strip is inserted to the outside of the tyre the bacon will form a V. The bottom of the V is what's inserted in to the hole in the the tyre. The arms of the V are the bacon bits that are not in the hole. Am I correct in my thinking (and I hope I described it correctly). If this IS the case, then what do you do with the bacon arms that are up in the air? If the answer is you cut them off (which makes sense in my mind) does this mean you carry scissors or a knife in your kit?

2. Regarding the Dynaplug, just confirming the plug is inserted in to the outside of the tyre and is done out in the field. Then the tyre is re-inflated with a CO2.

Thank you.

jimincalif

I believe you’re right on the bacon strips, I’ve not used them. I have heard they can work their way out of the tire. The DynaPlugs have a brass tip that stays in the tire. As I said, my last tire had three of them and they were all still in place. New Stans plugs supposedly react with the latex sealant to sort of glue themselves in place to be permanent. Interesting idea, I have no experience with them yet.

You can add Orange Seal to a tire that already has Stans in it. I’ve done it, worked fine, punctures sealed and no huge mess when I changed the tire.

Yes, DynaPlug is a field repair, you insert it with the tire inflated. If you are quick you can just plug and ride, no additional air needed. Look for the sealant leaking out, put your finger over it to keep the air in, get the DynaPlug out and shove it in the hole, extract the tool, job done. I was quick once and not so quick another time, I added air via a CO2 cartridge.

sfrider 

Orange here as well. I've only punctured my commute bike, but that has sealed itself up nicely each time. I bring CO2 carts to top off if needed. I think the best you can do when it happens is to keep riding, it adds pressure and rotates the wheel. I also bring a few dynaplugs plus insertor, but have never needed them. The sealant can spray a bit, and coat the frame - no worries, it both dries clear and comes off very easily with a soft brush or towel.

On the commuter I haven't done anything at all - gave it a few puffs of CO2 the one time it seemed a little low. Topped off sealant. Cleaned the gunk off the frame next time I washed the bike. Still riding those tires. I consider this stuff pure magic.