Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Road Cycling
Reload this Page >

Knee Pain and Setback

Notices
Road Cycling “It is by riding a bicycle that you learn the contours of a country best, since you have to sweat up the hills and coast down them. Thus you remember them as they actually are, while in a motor car only a high hill impresses you, and you have no such accurate remembrance of country you have driven through as you gain by riding a bicycle.” -- Ernest Hemingway

Knee Pain and Setback

Old 04-13-20, 04:04 PM
  #1  
zackw419
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Apr 2020
Posts: 6
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Knee Pain and Setback

So I'm completely new to cycling. Bought this bike on craigslist. Been experiencing knee pain (mostly in front and under the kneecap). I realized if I shift my butt back basically to where I'm barely sitting on the back end on the saddle the knee pain goes away completely. So I'm basically off the saddle in that position. I've tried adjusting the height and fore aft. But the only thing that makes the pain go away is shifting my sitting position basically back-off the seat. So I'm wondering if this frame is too small.. its 56 and I'm 6ft with long legs. I don't necessary feel crunched on the bike upper body wise. Its just my knees. I've looked into setback seat posts but I'm wondering if there wont be one far back enough to do the job. The crank arm length is 170

here's a pic, what do you guy think? I'm sitting on the seat normally (not shifted back) in this pic.


copy and paste to address bar: imgur.com/a/MowyMhH

Last edited by zackw419; 04-13-20 at 04:09 PM.
zackw419 is offline  
Old 04-13-20, 04:35 PM
  #2  
WhyFi
Senior Member
 
WhyFi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: TC, MN
Posts: 39,505

Bikes: R3 Disc, Haanjo

Mentioned: 353 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 20791 Post(s)
Liked 9,435 Times in 4,663 Posts
Here's your pic -



Is the current seat post a zero-setback?

In terms of the frame, as you go up in size, the seat tube angle doesn't often change once you get to 56cm and up, so moving to a 58 or even 61 will often have your saddle in the same position relative to the crankset, anyway. Most road bikes in your size range are going to have a STA around 73°. Maybe you'll find something with a 72° STA, but that would move you back ~15mm whereas a setback post will commonly have 25mm of setback.
WhyFi is offline  
Old 04-13-20, 05:13 PM
  #3  
alo
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2020
Posts: 1,060
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 529 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 255 Times in 185 Posts
I cant think of an obvious solution, other than keep experimenting.

Your leg should be straight when the pedal is at the bottom. From the picture, it looks like it probably is. Is it? Having the saddle low is harsh in the knees.

Do you tend to slide forward on the saddle? It wants to be somewhere near level.

Is a larger saddle beneficial?

If you raised the handlebars, would that be beneficial?
alo is offline  
Old 04-13-20, 05:45 PM
  #4  
zackw419
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Apr 2020
Posts: 6
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
to first post: thanks. this seatpost is 15mm setback i believe.

to second post: with how its setup now- my leg is near straight at the bottom stroke. and no I dont slide forward. Perhaps a larger saddle would help if the rails are longer for more aft.

Im mainly wondering if the frame looks too small? if its not than my only option is a seatpost with more setback

Last edited by zackw419; 04-13-20 at 05:50 PM.
zackw419 is offline  
Old 04-13-20, 06:34 PM
  #5  
79pmooney
Senior Member
 
79pmooney's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 12,790

Bikes: (2) ti TiCycles, 2007 w/ triple and 2011 fixed, 1979 Peter Mooney, ~1983 Trek 420 now fixed and ~1973 Raleigh Carlton Competition gravel grinder

Mentioned: 125 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4731 Post(s)
Liked 3,832 Times in 2,492 Posts
As WhyFi says, a larger frame will probably only change where the handlebars are relative to the bottom bracket, not the seat.

Nitto makes a beautiful seatpost with about 40 mm setback, the S84 in lugged steel. (Not heavy! It's built like a custom steel frame, then chromed and they are gorgeous.) Sadly, probably not long enough for your bike. You are a heavier rider, so look critically at big setback posts as you will be putting a lot of load on it. At the same time, a bigger setback post better supports your seat rails which can also break. They make a lot of other seatposts too of excellent quality. Take a look at their site;

I have knee issues (that sound a lot like yours but they started 40 years ago) and ride a big setback custom seatpost (so I can center the seat rails and not break titanium seat rails which are such a blessing for this light guy who doesn't flex the steel ones.

I know knee pain all too well. Consider a larger setback post, even having someone build a good, strong one for you. (If it keeps you away from a couple of doctor's visits, it's paid for. Even custom.) A builder who could make you that post easily is TiCycles. To whatever length, diameter and setback you need. They come with the excellent Thomson 2-bolt clamp hardware and are a joy use.

Your position looks reasonable. Bike is small, but as said above, that is mostly a handlebar issue. You may find after riding a while you want a little more reach. Also that what works for your knees changes,

Knee specific advice (from one who has been riding with knees like yours a long time). I'll make it really simple. 3 things, roughly equally important. Loose hamstrings. Work on touching your toes or any of the other stretches that do the same thing. Work on them in general and especially before and/or early in rides after you warm up some. Feel your knees riding? Stop and stretch. 2) Keep them warm. Seriously warm. For me, cold knees is like running my car without oil. Do it more than once or twice and just like my car engine, I'll have to replace them. (I had custom kneewarmers made. Wear them always until the temps go into the '80s. Be happy to send you the patterns.) 3) Build your conditioning slowly and listen to those knees. They will acclimatize but at a much slower rate than your muscles. Yes, it will try your patience.

Ben (Edit because this posted before I was fininshed)
79pmooney is offline  
Likes For 79pmooney:
Old 04-13-20, 07:10 PM
  #6  
RedBullFiXX
Senior Member
 
RedBullFiXX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: SoCal USA
Posts: 188
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 73 Post(s)
Liked 41 Times in 33 Posts
Originally Posted by zackw419
to first post: thanks. this seatpost is 15mm setback i believe.

to second post: with how its setup now- my leg is near straight at the bottom stroke. and no I dont slide forward. Perhaps a larger saddle would help if the rails are longer for more aft.

Im mainly wondering if the frame looks too small? if its not than my only option is a seatpost with more setback
I've found that saddle position & shoe setup are critical for happy knees
Bike size looks close enough
RedBullFiXX is offline  
Likes For RedBullFiXX:
Old 04-13-20, 08:22 PM
  #7  
woodcraft
Senior Member
 
woodcraft's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Nor Cal
Posts: 6,016
Mentioned: 17 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1814 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 923 Times in 569 Posts
Longer legs = shorter torso, so a larger frame might end up too stretched out.

A seat post with more setback- 25mm is common, and possibly a saddle with longer rails will allow more adjustment room.

I'm also 6', but with long torso & shortish legs, and have a setback seatpost and the saddle pushed way back. It puts some strain on those parts- have to really tighten the saddle clamp.

Generally it's better to have your feet placed on the pedals so that the pedal axle is more behind the ball of the foot than in front of it.

Allow time for the body to condition to the work, and pedaling faster in an easier gear puts less strain on the joints. Watch how fast experienced cyclists pedal & imitate.

+1 on the hamstring stretches.
woodcraft is offline  
Likes For woodcraft:
Old 04-13-20, 09:55 PM
  #8  
zackw419
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Apr 2020
Posts: 6
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by 79pmooney
As WhyFi says, a larger frame will probably only change where the handlebars are relative to the bottom bracket, not the seat.

Nitto makes a beautiful seatpost with about 40 mm setback, the S84 in lugged steel. (Not heavy! It's built like a custom steel frame, then chromed and they are gorgeous.) Sadly, probably not long enough for your bike. You are a heavier rider, so look critically at big setback posts as you will be putting a lot of load on it. At the same time, a bigger setback post better supports your seat rails which can also break. They make a lot of other seatposts too of excellent quality. Take a look at their site;

I have knee issues (that sound a lot like yours but they started 40 years ago) and ride a big setback custom seatpost (so I can center the seat rails and not break titanium seat rails which are such a blessing for this light guy who doesn't flex the steel ones.

I know knee pain all too well. Consider a larger setback post, even having someone build a good, strong one for you. (If it keeps you away from a couple of doctor's visits, it's paid for. Even custom.) A builder who could make you that post easily is TiCycles. To whatever length, diameter and setback you need. They come with the excellent Thomson 2-bolt clamp hardware and are a joy use.

Your position looks reasonable. Bike is small, but as said above, that is mostly a handlebar issue. You may find after riding a while you want a little more reach. Also that what works for your knees changes,

Knee specific advice (from one who has been riding with knees like yours a long time). I'll make it really simple. 3 things, roughly equally important. Loose hamstrings. Work on touching your toes or any of the other stretches that do the same thing. Work on them in general and especially before and/or early in rides after you warm up some. Feel your knees riding? Stop and stretch. 2) Keep them warm. Seriously warm. For me, cold knees is like running my car without oil. Do it more than once or twice and just like my car engine, I'll have to replace them. (I had custom kneewarmers made. Wear them always until the temps go into the '80s. Be happy to send you the patterns.) 3) Build your conditioning slowly and listen to those knees. They will acclimatize but at a much slower rate than your muscles. Yes, it will try your patience.

Ben (Edit because this posted before I was fininshed)
Great. Thanks for the advice.
zackw419 is offline  
Old 04-13-20, 09:56 PM
  #9  
zackw419
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Apr 2020
Posts: 6
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by woodcraft
Longer legs = shorter torso, so a larger frame might end up too stretched out.

A seat post with more setback- 25mm is common, and possibly a saddle with longer rails will allow more adjustment room.

I'm also 6', but with long torso & shortish legs, and have a setback seatpost and the saddle pushed way back. It puts some strain on those parts- have to really tighten the saddle clamp.

Generally it's better to have your feet placed on the pedals so that the pedal axle is more behind the ball of the foot than in front of it.

Allow time for the body to condition to the work, and pedaling faster in an easier gear puts less strain on the joints. Watch how fast experienced cyclists pedal & imitate.

+1 on the hamstring stretches.
Thanks. I think I'll start with a setback post and see how it goes.
zackw419 is offline  
Old 04-14-20, 08:52 AM
  #10  
topflightpro
Senior Member
 
topflightpro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 7,567
Mentioned: 54 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1851 Post(s)
Liked 675 Times in 427 Posts
You should have about a 30-degree bend in your knee when you pedal is at 6 o'clock. It should not be perfectly straight.

It's hard to tell exactly in your pic, but it looks like your saddle is too far forward there. Your knee looks like it's in front of the pedal spindle. General consensus is to start with knee over the pedal spindle, but I find I prefer it a bit behind. I also have knee problems, having torn my patella, and it sounds like you are having patella issues.

So, I agree with the suggestion of a setback post. Remember, raising your saddle will also bring the saddle back.
topflightpro is offline  
Old 04-14-20, 09:30 AM
  #11  
Classtime 
Senior Member
 
Classtime's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 4,663

Bikes: 82 Medici, 2011 Richard Sachs, 2011 Milwaukee Road

Mentioned: 54 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1918 Post(s)
Liked 1,940 Times in 1,079 Posts
I've got knee issues also. Something hat happens when you slide back or forward on your seat is the raising and lowering of your heel which changes the forces on your knee. A lot of things are going on and you are new. Your body has much to adapt to so don't rush it and think equipment is some short cut.
__________________
I don't do: disks, tubeless, e-shifting, or bead head nymphs.
Classtime is offline  
Old 04-14-20, 03:53 PM
  #12  
zackw419
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Apr 2020
Posts: 6
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
thanks guys
zackw419 is offline  
Old 04-14-20, 11:42 PM
  #13  
ZHVelo
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2020
Location: Zurich, Switzerland
Posts: 871
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 520 Post(s)
Liked 228 Times in 160 Posts
Originally Posted by zackw419
So I'm completely new to cycling. Bought this bike on craigslist. Been experiencing knee pain (mostly in front and under the kneecap). I realized if I shift my butt back basically to where I'm barely sitting on the back end on the saddle the knee pain goes away completely. So I'm basically off the saddle in that position. I've tried adjusting the height and fore aft. But the only thing that makes the pain go away is shifting my sitting position basically back-off the seat. So I'm wondering if this frame is too small.. its 56 and I'm 6ft with long legs. I don't necessary feel crunched on the bike upper body wise. Its just my knees. I've looked into setback seat posts but I'm wondering if there wont be one far back enough to do the job. The crank arm length is 170

here's a pic, what do you guy think? I'm sitting on the seat normally (not shifted back) in this pic.


copy and paste to address bar: imgur.com/a/MowyMhH
I recently had a similar pain, front of knee, top of kneecap, turned out that my foot position was so that they were angled inward and my knee went inward during the stroke. Keeping it straight solved the issue.

Maybe not your problem by the sounds of it, but can't hurt to see if you similarly move your knee during pedal strokes.
ZHVelo is offline  
Old 04-15-20, 12:50 AM
  #14  
smashndash
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 1,410

Bikes: 2017 Specialized Allez Sprint Comp

Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 850 Post(s)
Liked 344 Times in 247 Posts
Originally Posted by ZHVelo
I recently had a similar pain, front of knee, top of kneecap, turned out that my foot position was so that they were angled inward and my knee went inward during the stroke. Keeping it straight solved the issue.

Maybe not your problem by the sounds of it, but can't hurt to see if you similarly move your knee during pedal strokes.
Has there been any mention of clipless shoes or cleat setup? My philosophy is always to start with the cleats all the way back and gradually inch (or mm) them forward until you get the optimal “snap” out of your calves. Moving your cleats back moves your foot forwards. This effectively moves your saddle back relative to the pedals.
smashndash is offline  
Old 04-15-20, 06:45 AM
  #15  
DaveSSS 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Loveland, CO
Posts: 7,196

Bikes: Cinelli superstar disc, two Yoeleo R12

Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1075 Post(s)
Liked 551 Times in 441 Posts
A 30 degree bend at the bottom of the stroke is too much. Extend the leg fully at the bottom of the stroke. If your heel drops even an inch below horizontal, that should provide adequate bending, assuming that you pedal with the heels up a bit, not flat footed.

Get a seatpost with 25mm or more of setback.
DaveSSS is offline  
Old 04-15-20, 05:58 PM
  #16  
zackw419
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Apr 2020
Posts: 6
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Deleted
zackw419 is offline  
Old 04-15-20, 07:14 PM
  #17  
fstshrk
Senior Member
 
fstshrk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: WA State
Posts: 1,843
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 20 Post(s)
Liked 5 Times in 3 Posts
I think this bike is too small for you. If you push the seat back, you are going to end up with hamstring issues.

Did you consider getting a bike fit instead of relying on advice from BF?
fstshrk is offline  

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.