Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Road Cycling
Reload this Page >

How Much Damage Does Canyon Do To LBS's?

Notices
Road Cycling “It is by riding a bicycle that you learn the contours of a country best, since you have to sweat up the hills and coast down them. Thus you remember them as they actually are, while in a motor car only a high hill impresses you, and you have no such accurate remembrance of country you have driven through as you gain by riding a bicycle.” -- Ernest Hemingway

How Much Damage Does Canyon Do To LBS's?

Old 04-13-20, 06:05 PM
  #176  
Bah Humbug
serious cyclist
 
Bah Humbug's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Austin
Posts: 21,147

Bikes: S1, R2, P2

Mentioned: 115 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9334 Post(s)
Liked 3,679 Times in 2,026 Posts
The real question is not how much damage Canyon (or BikesDirect, if this thread were a few years older) does to LBSs, but how much damage Velofix and its ilk does.
Bah Humbug is offline  
Likes For Bah Humbug:
Old 04-13-20, 07:13 PM
  #177  
RedBullFiXX
Senior Member
 
RedBullFiXX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: SoCal USA
Posts: 188
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 73 Post(s)
Liked 41 Times in 33 Posts
Originally Posted by Bah Humbug
The real question is not how much damage Canyon (or BikesDirect, if this thread were a few years older) does to LBSs, but how much damage Velofix and its ilk does.
The real question is how much damage have bike shops done by not offering a mobile bike service, brilliant idea for those who rely on it
RedBullFiXX is offline  
Old 04-13-20, 11:47 PM
  #178  
PeeCee
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Posts: 29
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 6 Times in 4 Posts
Originally Posted by BCDrums
Never heard of Canyon Bikes until this thread. Must be behind the curve. Or maybe Canyon is really a tiny part of the bike world.
Team Katusha Alpecin. One of the biggest teams on the world tour.
I see a fair amount of them here in Perth Australia, they look the part and from what I've heard are very good.
We are being ripped off with the price of high end bikes. Some years ago I paid about $7,000 AUD for my BMC RM01 a few years later I paid the same for my Triumph Speed Triple (close to same age) motorbike :-//
PeeCee is offline  
Old 04-14-20, 12:00 AM
  #179  
PeeCee
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Posts: 29
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 6 Times in 4 Posts
Movistar Team on Canyon as well.
PeeCee is offline  
Old 04-14-20, 12:56 AM
  #180  
ZHVelo
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2020
Location: Zurich, Switzerland
Posts: 871
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 520 Post(s)
Liked 228 Times in 160 Posts
Katusha is no longer, but Arkea has a new contract with Canyon for 2020-2021 as well, Quintana didn't even have to change bikes, shame about Corona, he has looked stronger than ever this year already.
ZHVelo is offline  
Old 04-14-20, 06:24 AM
  #181  
phrantic09
Fat n slow
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Saratoga, NY
Posts: 4,248

Bikes: Cervelo R3, Giant Revolt

Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3211 Post(s)
Liked 2,028 Times in 964 Posts
Originally Posted by RedBullFiXX
The real question is how much damage have bike shops done by not offering a mobile bike service, brilliant idea for those who rely on it
If shops could turn things around in a day there would be no need for Velofix. Most shops here have you drop the bike off three days before they actually work on it.

The local Velofix mechanic here knows his stuff, is on time and passionate about what he does.
phrantic09 is offline  
Old 04-14-20, 06:30 AM
  #182  
phrantic09
Fat n slow
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Saratoga, NY
Posts: 4,248

Bikes: Cervelo R3, Giant Revolt

Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3211 Post(s)
Liked 2,028 Times in 964 Posts
Back to the original point, these guys believe Canyon is damaging their business:

https://fitwerx.com/the-canyon-conun...our-next-bike/

In the blog post he states that they aren’t built around a service model, but instead on selling new bikes. Of course, these are the guys that got my wife to spend $5,000 on a 105 equipped Guru as her very first road bike (before we were married) “because it’s custom fit for her”

it is a pretty nice bike though
phrantic09 is offline  
Old 04-14-20, 06:32 AM
  #183  
Sy Reene
Advocatus Diaboli
 
Sy Reene's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Wherever I am
Posts: 8,585

Bikes: Merlin Cyrene, Nashbar steel CX

Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4696 Post(s)
Liked 1,512 Times in 987 Posts
Originally Posted by phrantic09
If shops could turn things around in a day there would be no need for Velofix. Most shops here have you drop the bike off three days before they actually work on it.
.
Yeah, I've complained about this previously.. hard to find shops where they let you book an appointment, so that if something takes eg. 2 hours, you can drop off your bike and come back 2 hrs later and it'll be done.
Sy Reene is offline  
Old 04-14-20, 06:33 AM
  #184  
phrantic09
Fat n slow
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Saratoga, NY
Posts: 4,248

Bikes: Cervelo R3, Giant Revolt

Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3211 Post(s)
Liked 2,028 Times in 964 Posts
Originally Posted by Sy Reene
Yeah, I've complained about this previously.. hard to find shops where they let you book an appointment, so that if something takes eg. 2 hours, you can drop off your bike and come back 2 hrs later with it done.
Right! That’s the Velofix value proposition.
phrantic09 is offline  
Old 04-14-20, 06:40 AM
  #185  
ZHVelo
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2020
Location: Zurich, Switzerland
Posts: 871
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 520 Post(s)
Liked 228 Times in 160 Posts
Originally Posted by phrantic09
Back to the original point, these guys believe Canyon is damaging their business:

https://fitwerx.com/the-canyon-conun...our-next-bike/

In the blog post he states that they aren’t built around a service model, but instead on selling new bikes. Of course, these are the guys that got my wife to spend $5,000 on a 105 equipped Guru as her very first road bike (before we were married) “because it’s custom fit for her”

it is a pretty nice bike though
“We only service bikes from dealer network based brands.”

Yea, no thanks. They are basically admitting trying to create a cartel. Not that it will matter anyway, any independent bike shop could say screw that and just service direct to consumer brands and would get a lot of business.

The more I am reading it, the more it annoys me.

"Instead, their model works to eliminate the dealer from the transaction and to capitalize on the fact that a support network was built by the rest of the industry." - that is inherently a good thing. If you don't have a value to people, as sad as that may be, you don't have a value. And if the only way for him to survive is being a middle man (because that is exactly what he is according to his own logic) then sorry, but he has zero value.

Not to mention, so what, new shops would open up exactly to fill the need for service that does exist. He is talking about "the industry" as if everyone somehow made this huge effort and contribution, akin to say someone building a rail line and others wanting to use that infrastructure for free. This is simply not true. If they all disappeared and everyone bought bikes online, sooner or later service shops would pop up because there'd be a demand for it.

But I don't think, and can't believe, that that is his only value. His expertise and service is his true value. Use that. And if that truly isn't enough, it just means the market was never a good one to begin with. So instead of have x bike shops in y radius, you have x/2 bike shops and y radius, and those x/2 remaining ones make enough. That is Econ 101.

Last edited by ZHVelo; 04-14-20 at 07:13 AM.
ZHVelo is offline  
Likes For ZHVelo:
Old 04-14-20, 07:10 AM
  #186  
seypat
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 8,741
Mentioned: 69 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3182 Post(s)
Liked 2,460 Times in 1,489 Posts
Originally Posted by ZHVelo
“We only service bikes from dealer network based brands.”

Yea, no thanks. They are basically admitting trying to create a cartel. Not that it will matter anyway, any independent bike shop could say screw that and just service direct to consumer brands and would get a lot of business.
That's not true. The key word here is proprietary. If that particular bike or tool, etc company has deemed their product or parts exclusive, then any repair shop that is not an authorized dealer/repair shop, etc cannot touch it. If your look at the fine print of most warranties, any deviation from the manufacturers direction will void the warranty. If that product uses consumables, using unauthorized consumables from another companies will void the warranty as well.

Last edited by seypat; 04-14-20 at 07:18 AM.
seypat is offline  
Old 04-14-20, 07:20 AM
  #187  
phrantic09
Fat n slow
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Saratoga, NY
Posts: 4,248

Bikes: Cervelo R3, Giant Revolt

Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3211 Post(s)
Liked 2,028 Times in 964 Posts
Originally Posted by seypat
That's not true. The key word here is proprietary. If that particular bike or tool, etc company has deemed their product or parts exclusive, then any repair shop that is not an authorized dealer/repair shop, etc cannot touch it. If your look at the fine print of most warranties, any deviation from the manufacturers direction will void the warranty. If that product uses consumables, using consumables from another companies will void the warranty as well.

but thats not what the quote is saying... they would service a Giant with proprietary parts because it’s a “dealer based brand” but not a Canyon.
phrantic09 is offline  
Old 04-14-20, 07:26 AM
  #188  
ZHVelo
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2020
Location: Zurich, Switzerland
Posts: 871
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 520 Post(s)
Liked 228 Times in 160 Posts
Originally Posted by seypat
That's not true. The key word here is proprietary. If that particular bike or tool, etc company has deemed their product or parts exclusive, then any repair shop that is not an authorized dealer/repair shop, etc cannot touch it. If your look at the fine print of most warranties, any deviation from the manufacturers direction will void the warranty. If that product uses consumables, using unauthorized consumables from another companies will void the warranty as well.
So what? Direct to consumer have no proprietary bikes/parts hence anyone could service them.
ZHVelo is offline  
Old 04-14-20, 07:27 AM
  #189  
TheLizard
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2019
Location: RVA
Posts: 86

Bikes: 2001 Trek 8000

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 53 Post(s)
Liked 28 Times in 18 Posts
Well they have some descent looking bikes.

But every thing I would be interested in won't fit me. I'm 5'7" with a 31" inseam, and every bike I try tells me:

You are exceeding the recommended adjustment range of the specified seatpost. Unfortunately, we cannot ensure a proper fit on this bike.
Please select a different model.
As if it's MY fault that I have the wrong body size, rather than they don't know how to build a bike for someone my size (which is not at all an unusual size).

A bunch of idiots, that's what I think.

So, no danger to any of the LBS around here.
TheLizard is offline  
Old 04-14-20, 07:31 AM
  #190  
ZHVelo
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2020
Location: Zurich, Switzerland
Posts: 871
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 520 Post(s)
Liked 228 Times in 160 Posts
Originally Posted by TheLizard
Well they have some descent looking bikes.

But every thing I would be interested in won't fit me. I'm 5'7" with a 31" inseam, and every bike I try tells me:



As if it's MY fault that I have the wrong body size, rather than they don't know how to build a bike for someone my size (which is not at all an unusual size).

A bunch of idiots, that's what I think.

So, no danger to any of the LBS around here.
Idiots for not catering to outliers?

Diddums.
ZHVelo is offline  
Old 04-14-20, 07:34 AM
  #191  
seypat
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 8,741
Mentioned: 69 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3182 Post(s)
Liked 2,460 Times in 1,489 Posts
Originally Posted by ZHVelo
So what? Direct to consumer have no proprietary bikes/parts hence anyone could service them.
Evidently Canyon does. If you read the comments posted in the article, they have something in the headset.
seypat is offline  
Old 04-14-20, 07:35 AM
  #192  
phrantic09
Fat n slow
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Saratoga, NY
Posts: 4,248

Bikes: Cervelo R3, Giant Revolt

Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3211 Post(s)
Liked 2,028 Times in 964 Posts
Originally Posted by TheLizard
Well they have some descent looking bikes.

But every thing I would be interested in won't fit me. I'm 5'7" with a 31" inseam, and every bike I try tells me:



As if it's MY fault that I have the wrong body size, rather than they don't know how to build a bike for someone my size (which is not at all an unusual size).

A bunch of idiots, that's what I think.

So, no danger to any of the LBS around here.

BS... just put in 67 inches with a 31 inseam on an Ultimate and was sized to an XS. Same on the Endurace.
phrantic09 is offline  
Old 04-14-20, 07:37 AM
  #193  
ZHVelo
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2020
Location: Zurich, Switzerland
Posts: 871
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 520 Post(s)
Liked 228 Times in 160 Posts
Originally Posted by seypat
Evidently Canyon does. If you read the comments posted in the article, they have something in the headset.
If you read that comment properly, you'd realize it has nothing to do with repair/service and possible proprietary parts, but that the warranty only covers manufacturing defects, but not accidents during transport (edit: or faulty assembly of parts, not to mention nowhere does that comment in any way even remotely imply that Canyon bikes are proprietary and can only be serviced by specific shops. Sorry but your notion is completely ridiculous).

Last edited by ZHVelo; 04-14-20 at 07:40 AM.
ZHVelo is offline  
Old 04-14-20, 07:39 AM
  #194  
Tacoenthusiast
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2020
Posts: 232
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 127 Post(s)
Liked 223 Times in 84 Posts
Originally Posted by seypat
Evidently Canyon does. If you read the comments posted in the article, they have something in the headset.
Try and find a brand that doesn't have proprietary parts..........

You'll need to find one without an aero bike
Tacoenthusiast is offline  
Old 04-14-20, 07:41 AM
  #195  
seypat
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 8,741
Mentioned: 69 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3182 Post(s)
Liked 2,460 Times in 1,489 Posts
Originally Posted by phrantic09
but thats not what the quote is saying... they would service a Giant with proprietary parts because it’s a “dealer based brand” but not a Canyon.
It all depends on whether you can get parts or not for the particular bike, appliance, tool. If you can't, you can't service/repair it. We're talking about an expensive luxury product here, not some $50 widget that can be replaced if the repair shop breaks it.
seypat is offline  
Old 04-14-20, 07:44 AM
  #196  
Sy Reene
Advocatus Diaboli
 
Sy Reene's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Wherever I am
Posts: 8,585

Bikes: Merlin Cyrene, Nashbar steel CX

Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4696 Post(s)
Liked 1,512 Times in 987 Posts
Originally Posted by phrantic09
Back to the original point, these guys believe Canyon is damaging their business:

https://fitwerx.com/the-canyon-conun...our-next-bike/

In the blog post he states that they aren’t built around a service model, but instead on selling new bikes. Of course, these are the guys that got my wife to spend $5,000 on a 105 equipped Guru as her very first road bike (before we were married) “because it’s custom fit for her”

it is a pretty nice bike though
Originally Posted by ZHVelo
“We only service bikes from dealer network based brands.”

Yea, no thanks. They are basically admitting trying to create a cartel. Not that it will matter anyway, any independent bike shop could say screw that and just service direct to consumer brands and would get a lot of business.

The more I am reading it, the more it annoys me.

"Instead, their model works to eliminate the dealer from the transaction and to capitalize on the fact that a support network was built by the rest of the industry." - that is inherently a good thing. If you don't have a value to people, as sad as that may be, you don't have a value. And if the only way for him to survive is being a middle man (because that is exactly what he is according to his own logic) then sorry, but he has zero value.

Not to mention, so what, new shops would open up exactly to fill the need for service that does exist. He is talking about "the industry" as if everyone somehow made this huge effort and contribution, akin to say someone building a rail line and others wanting to use that infrastructure for free. This is simply not true. If they all disappeared and everyone bought bikes online, sooner or later service shops would pop up because there'd be a demand for it.

But I don't think, and can't believe, that that is his only value. His expertise and service is his true value. Use that. And if that truly isn't enough, it just means the market was never a good one to begin with. So instead of have x bike shops in y radius, you have x/2 bike shops and y radius, and those x/2 remaining ones make enough. That is Econ 101.
There's another linked article that's found in that first article's comments.. Actually a worthwhile read if only for the perspective:
https://fitwerx.com/specialty-bike-shops-make-money/
Sy Reene is offline  
Old 04-14-20, 07:45 AM
  #197  
TheLizard
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2019
Location: RVA
Posts: 86

Bikes: 2001 Trek 8000

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 53 Post(s)
Liked 28 Times in 18 Posts
Originally Posted by phrantic09
BS... just put in 67 inches with a 31 inseam on an Ultimate and was sized to an XS. Same on the Endurace.
Those are road bikes, and even those (XS is not available (they say "coming soon"?))

I can't get a Pathlite 6.0 at all - I get the above error (the error is THEM, not ME, as they imply with that message).

Roadlite: My size not available. Roadlite AL: not available.

So even on the bikes that don't just give me an obnoxious error about my size, they are not available to buy.

HARD PASS
TheLizard is offline  
Old 04-14-20, 07:45 AM
  #198  
phrantic09
Fat n slow
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Saratoga, NY
Posts: 4,248

Bikes: Cervelo R3, Giant Revolt

Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3211 Post(s)
Liked 2,028 Times in 964 Posts
Originally Posted by seypat
It all depends on whether you can get parts or not for the particular bike, appliance, tool. If you can't, you can't service/repair it. We're talking about an expensive luxury product here, not some $50 widget that can be replaced if the repair shop breaks it.
i think you’re splitting hairs here. If a shop can service another “dealer based brand” that they do not sell there is no logical explanation why they can’t service a Canyon EXCEPT that they’re salty about the sales model.
phrantic09 is offline  
Likes For phrantic09:
Old 04-14-20, 07:46 AM
  #199  
ZHVelo
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2020
Location: Zurich, Switzerland
Posts: 871
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 520 Post(s)
Liked 228 Times in 160 Posts
Originally Posted by seypat
It all depends on whether you can get parts or not for the particular bike, appliance, tool. If you can't, you can't service/repair it. We're talking about an expensive luxury product here, not some $50 widget that can be replaced if the repair shop breaks it.
Irrelevant. The quote was they would stop servicing Canyon's because they feel cheated by Canyon.

My comment was, fine, if they want to try and be a cartel, let them, it won't matter because other shops will fulfil that demand. However that demand could be fulfilled is a different story. The point is, they cannot be a cartel as they cannot control supply.
ZHVelo is offline  
Old 04-14-20, 07:52 AM
  #200  
phrantic09
Fat n slow
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Saratoga, NY
Posts: 4,248

Bikes: Cervelo R3, Giant Revolt

Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3211 Post(s)
Liked 2,028 Times in 964 Posts
Originally Posted by Sy Reene
There's another linked article that's found in that first article's comments.. Actually a worthwhile read if only for the perspective:
https://fitwerx.com/specialty-bike-shops-make-money/
These guys have a different business model than most shops(IMO). They’re great with service and excellent fitters. I just think taking such a hard line on Canyon is like cutting off their nose to spite their face. Maybe I’m wrong.
phrantic09 is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.