How Much Damage Does Canyon Do To LBS's?
04-14-20, 11:23 AM
#226
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04-14-20, 11:53 AM
#227
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I had to think about that for a while and come up with something that was constructive. So, here's my attempt.
If a bike is not working to the satisfaction of the owner then it needs to be serviced/repaired, no matter the brand. When a new bike is purchased, the owner's satisfaction must also be met. Realistically, the companies/brands are only responsible for the parts on that bike that have their names on it. However, they are selling a whole complete bike as a finished product. The consumer now is wanting same day service. For that to happen you have to have quick access to all kinds of inventory/products to service that bike. Someone has the shoulder the cost of that inventory and labor. Someone also has to take responsibility for repairing/servicing that bike. That's very important. Traditionally this has been done at the LBS with a system between the LBS and the bike companies.
Canyon comes with a different model that takes the fitting/sales part of that process away from the LBS. That's ok, if it works, it works. But what happens when you, or I, or Joe Blow is riding his/her bike and something happens. Something happens and the RD goes into the rear wheel and gets ripped off. The frame/wheel/RD is toast. Or, the owner can't get the bike to shift properly and thinks there is a problem with the drivetrain.
First of all, who is responsible for diagnosing the problem? Who pays for the time up front for the problem diagnosis? Someone has to get paid whether that is the LBS, Velofix, or the bike company themselves. Time is money. If some components need to be replaced who is responsible for the replacement costs? Is it Canyon or the component company? It's not the LBS, or Velofix, but they will be the face of that situation to the bike owner.
There has got to be a connection/partnership between the bike companies and the LBS/service centers no matter what they morph into. At least I think so, I could be wrong.
If a bike is not working to the satisfaction of the owner then it needs to be serviced/repaired, no matter the brand. When a new bike is purchased, the owner's satisfaction must also be met. Realistically, the companies/brands are only responsible for the parts on that bike that have their names on it. However, they are selling a whole complete bike as a finished product. The consumer now is wanting same day service. For that to happen you have to have quick access to all kinds of inventory/products to service that bike. Someone has the shoulder the cost of that inventory and labor. Someone also has to take responsibility for repairing/servicing that bike. That's very important. Traditionally this has been done at the LBS with a system between the LBS and the bike companies.
Canyon comes with a different model that takes the fitting/sales part of that process away from the LBS. That's ok, if it works, it works. But what happens when you, or I, or Joe Blow is riding his/her bike and something happens. Something happens and the RD goes into the rear wheel and gets ripped off. The frame/wheel/RD is toast. Or, the owner can't get the bike to shift properly and thinks there is a problem with the drivetrain.
First of all, who is responsible for diagnosing the problem? Who pays for the time up front for the problem diagnosis? Someone has to get paid whether that is the LBS, Velofix, or the bike company themselves. Time is money. If some components need to be replaced who is responsible for the replacement costs? Is it Canyon or the component company? It's not the LBS, or Velofix, but they will be the face of that situation to the bike owner.
There has got to be a connection/partnership between the bike companies and the LBS/service centers no matter what they morph into. At least I think so, I could be wrong.
It only needs to be the case if one's mindset is "something goes wrong -> who can I blame?". So you need a fixed point to go, and complain. I do not know enough about cycling, but I don't think that's how it works in Europe, for example. I would be very surprised. I have never had problems taking my Canyon to get fixed.
And from my point of view, if you have an accident and something breaks, you go get it fixed. At your own cost. Why should a bike company or a bike shop cover your cost? I fundamentally don't understand this line of thinking. Sure, if something about the bike fails, I can see this. Like, if I drop my phone it is not the manufacturer's fault. But if the screen starts mucking up, it is. Now I can see that with bikes this process to identify if it was purely an accident (and in theory your fault, or that of who caused the accident) or if a part failed and led to the accident. But even then, I don't see why a shop cannot look at the bike document what it sees and provide you with information to take to Canyon to claim under warranty. Unless you are saying that you believe this would lead to massive fraud, then I see no issue with this. And if it does you can still have solutions like sending the bike in to Canyon to check themselves. And it would allow the market to differentiate itself, some companies may accept a claim no matter what, some may be more stingy. This by the way happens in insurance all the time. More expensive insurers tend to pay out more easily. It's the same principle.
04-14-20, 11:55 AM
#228
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I had to think about that for a while and come up with something that was constructive. So, here's my attempt.
If a bike is not working to the satisfaction of the owner then it needs to be serviced/repaired, no matter the brand. When a new bike is purchased, the owner's satisfaction must also be met. Realistically, the companies/brands are only responsible for the parts on that bike that have their names on it. However, they are selling a whole complete bike as a finished product. The consumer now is wanting same day service. For that to happen you have to have quick access to all kinds of inventory/products to service that bike. Someone has the shoulder the cost of that inventory and labor. Someone also has to take responsibility for repairing/servicing that bike. That's very important. Traditionally this has been done at the LBS with a system between the LBS and the bike companies.
Canyon comes with a different model that takes the fitting/sales part of that process away from the LBS. That's ok, if it works, it works. But what happens when you, or I, or Joe Blow is riding his/her bike and something happens. Something happens and the RD goes into the rear wheel and gets ripped off. The frame/wheel/RD is toast. Or, the owner can't get the bike to shift properly and thinks there is a problem with the drivetrain.
First of all, who is responsible for diagnosing the problem? Who pays for the time up front for the problem diagnosis? Someone has to get paid whether that is the LBS, Velofix, or the bike company themselves. Time is money. If some components need to be replaced who is responsible for the replacement costs? Is it Canyon or the component company? It's not the LBS, or Velofix, but they will be the face of that situation to the bike owner.
There has got to be a connection/partnership between the bike companies and the LBS/service centers no matter what they morph into. At least I think so, I could be wrong.
If a bike is not working to the satisfaction of the owner then it needs to be serviced/repaired, no matter the brand. When a new bike is purchased, the owner's satisfaction must also be met. Realistically, the companies/brands are only responsible for the parts on that bike that have their names on it. However, they are selling a whole complete bike as a finished product. The consumer now is wanting same day service. For that to happen you have to have quick access to all kinds of inventory/products to service that bike. Someone has the shoulder the cost of that inventory and labor. Someone also has to take responsibility for repairing/servicing that bike. That's very important. Traditionally this has been done at the LBS with a system between the LBS and the bike companies.
Canyon comes with a different model that takes the fitting/sales part of that process away from the LBS. That's ok, if it works, it works. But what happens when you, or I, or Joe Blow is riding his/her bike and something happens. Something happens and the RD goes into the rear wheel and gets ripped off. The frame/wheel/RD is toast. Or, the owner can't get the bike to shift properly and thinks there is a problem with the drivetrain.
First of all, who is responsible for diagnosing the problem? Who pays for the time up front for the problem diagnosis? Someone has to get paid whether that is the LBS, Velofix, or the bike company themselves. Time is money. If some components need to be replaced who is responsible for the replacement costs? Is it Canyon or the component company? It's not the LBS, or Velofix, but they will be the face of that situation to the bike owner.
There has got to be a connection/partnership between the bike companies and the LBS/service centers no matter what they morph into. At least I think so, I could be wrong.
Not Canyons btw
Stuff happens
04-14-20, 11:57 AM
#229
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I know women who buy men's products because they are essentially the same but cheaper. They don't seem to be offended (other than the fact that the products marketed at them are more expensive when they're the same). It seems you always play the victim card to have an argument, because you have no actual arguments.
04-14-20, 11:59 AM
#230
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Some online business models are set up to price pressure brick & mortar competition by supplying a long tail of less popular products that would be impractical to stock on limited physical store shelves. Amazon is like this. Once people get accustomed to shopping for everything on Amazon, they stop noticing that many things aren't even cheaper.
Other online businesses put price pressure on competitors by reducing their overhead, such as by limiting stock or model variety. Canyon, at least in the US, is like this. There are items they don't have much in stock, such as different sizes of their proprietary integrated handlebars and harder to source 1-1/4" stems in less popular lengths, which unlike in Europe you cannot even customize when ordering. Of course it would be better for a Canyon owner if they had everything in stock, but the flipside of that is a more expensive price point. So Canyon (US) caters to the most common sized and doesn't worry about potential lost sales on bikes they don't have, which costs them a lot less than stale old stock they have to keep around. Check the Canyon outlet for some (sometimes outrageously) good deals on the stock they want to clear.
Maybe Canyon could forecast demand better on popular models and sizes, but they seem to be taking a page out of Nintendo's playbook by deliberately erring on the conservative production side.
Other online businesses put price pressure on competitors by reducing their overhead, such as by limiting stock or model variety. Canyon, at least in the US, is like this. There are items they don't have much in stock, such as different sizes of their proprietary integrated handlebars and harder to source 1-1/4" stems in less popular lengths, which unlike in Europe you cannot even customize when ordering. Of course it would be better for a Canyon owner if they had everything in stock, but the flipside of that is a more expensive price point. So Canyon (US) caters to the most common sized and doesn't worry about potential lost sales on bikes they don't have, which costs them a lot less than stale old stock they have to keep around. Check the Canyon outlet for some (sometimes outrageously) good deals on the stock they want to clear.
Maybe Canyon could forecast demand better on popular models and sizes, but they seem to be taking a page out of Nintendo's playbook by deliberately erring on the conservative production side.
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04-14-20, 12:50 PM
#231
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I did not call you a woman, though, I suggested you see if the bikes targeted at women actually fit you better.
I know women who buy men's products because they are essentially the same but cheaper. They don't seem to be offended (other than the fact that the products marketed at them are more expensive when they're the same). It seems you always play the victim card to have an argument, because you have no actual arguments.
I know women who buy men's products because they are essentially the same but cheaper. They don't seem to be offended (other than the fact that the products marketed at them are more expensive when they're the same). It seems you always play the victim card to have an argument, because you have no actual arguments.
You responded to this with personal attacks, like there was something wrong with ME (maybe you have a financial stake in Canyon, IDK).
And, just FYI - the women's bikes have the exact same problem.
04-14-20, 01:24 PM
#232
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My only "argument" was that Canyon bikes are no threat to any LBS, because they are not offering anything that is of any use for me and for millions of other people that have a good experience with their LBS every day, where they can find a bike that FITS, AND is available for sale (something Canyon doesn't have). And the error message they displayed was VERY off-putting. "This is not the right model of bike for you" would have been a LOT better.
You responded to this with personal attacks, like there was something wrong with ME (maybe you have a financial stake in Canyon, IDK).
And, just FYI - the women's bikes have the exact same problem.
You responded to this with personal attacks, like there was something wrong with ME (maybe you have a financial stake in Canyon, IDK).
And, just FYI - the women's bikes have the exact same problem.
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04-14-20, 01:27 PM
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My only "argument" was that Canyon bikes are no threat to any LBS, because they are not offering anything that is of any use for me and for millions of other people that have a good experience with their LBS every day, where they can find a bike that FITS, AND is available for sale (something Canyon doesn't have). And the error message they displayed was VERY off-putting. "This is not the right model of bike for you" would have been a LOT better.
You responded to this with personal attacks, like there was something wrong with ME (maybe you have a financial stake in Canyon, IDK).
And, just FYI - the women's bikes have the exact same problem.
You responded to this with personal attacks, like there was something wrong with ME (maybe you have a financial stake in Canyon, IDK).
And, just FYI - the women's bikes have the exact same problem.
Sure, the only reason someone would disagree with you is for financial reasons, makes total sense.
04-14-20, 01:33 PM
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No. Your argument is that you are pissed off that you cannot make use of their good deals because your model is constantly out of stock. If you didn't want their bikes, you wouldn't vent so much about them (going so far as calling them "idiots"). You simply wouldn't care enough, you'd have simply stated it the way you do now.
Sure, the only reason someone would disagree with you is for financial reasons, makes total sense.
Sure, the only reason someone would disagree with you is for financial reasons, makes total sense.
I'd never even HEARD of them until I saw this post, so I checked them out, and posted my impressions.
Then their salesmen (you) ATTACKED me PERSONALLY.
Let's see... you JUST joined the site, you've only got 54 posts - EVERY post is in a thread about Canyon bikes. Yep - Canyon bikes marketer.
WARNING: Canyon bikes are a scam, and they send in stealth marketers to message board to defend their practices and attack anyone that says anything bad about them.
Last edited by TheLizard; 04-14-20 at 01:36 PM.
04-14-20, 01:41 PM
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They ARE idiots. And scammers. They have models that won't fit ANYONE (I tried a bunch of variations, and they all return one error or another).
I'd never even HEARD of them until I saw this post, so I checked them out, and posted my impressions.
Then their salesmen (you) ATTACKED me PERSONALLY.
Let's see... you JUST joined the site, you've only got 54 posts - EVERY post is in a thread about Canyon bikes. Yep - Canyon bikes marketer.
WARNING: Canyon bikes are a scam, and they send in stealth marketers to message board to defend their practices and attack anyone that says anything bad about them.
I'd never even HEARD of them until I saw this post, so I checked them out, and posted my impressions.
Then their salesmen (you) ATTACKED me PERSONALLY.
Let's see... you JUST joined the site, you've only got 54 posts - EVERY post is in a thread about Canyon bikes. Yep - Canyon bikes marketer.
WARNING: Canyon bikes are a scam, and they send in stealth marketers to message board to defend their practices and attack anyone that says anything bad about them.
I guess the Earth is flat, huh?
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04-14-20, 02:17 PM
#237
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They ARE idiots. And scammers. They have models that won't fit ANYONE (I tried a bunch of variations, and they all return one error or another).
WARNING: Canyon bikes are a scam, and they send in stealth marketers to message board to defend their practices and attack anyone that says anything bad about them.
WARNING: Canyon bikes are a scam, and they send in stealth marketers to message board to defend their practices and attack anyone that says anything bad about them.
Hahaha as if canyon has bikes somehow vastly different sizes than trek or specialized or something
You sure it's not operator error on the web sizing tool?
04-14-20, 02:29 PM
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04-14-20, 02:30 PM
#239
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They ARE idiots. And scammers. They have models that won't fit ANYONE (I tried a bunch of variations, and they all return one error or another).
I'd never even HEARD of them until I saw this post, so I checked them out, and posted my impressions.
Then their salesmen (you) ATTACKED me PERSONALLY.
Let's see... you JUST joined the site, you've only got 54 posts - EVERY post is in a thread about Canyon bikes. Yep - Canyon bikes marketer.
WARNING: Canyon bikes are a scam, and they send in stealth marketers to message board to defend their practices and attack anyone that says anything bad about them.
I'd never even HEARD of them until I saw this post, so I checked them out, and posted my impressions.
Then their salesmen (you) ATTACKED me PERSONALLY.
Let's see... you JUST joined the site, you've only got 54 posts - EVERY post is in a thread about Canyon bikes. Yep - Canyon bikes marketer.
WARNING: Canyon bikes are a scam, and they send in stealth marketers to message board to defend their practices and attack anyone that says anything bad about them.
