Doug Fattic 

I believe you have laced the wheel incorrectly. Follow any two almost parallel spokes that are going in the same direction from the hub to the rim. One spoke is coming from the right flange and the other spoke is coming from the left side. You will notice that the holes in the hub are not lined up across from each other but rather they are offset. That means that the head of one spoke is behind the other spoke as you are looking straight down as they come out of the hub. As you follow these 2 spokes going in the same direction out to the rim, the spoke that started behind the other one at the hub should also be behind it at the rim. It looks to me this pattern got switched and the spoke that is ahead of the other one at the hub got behind it at the rim. This is why one is tight and the other one loose.

mprince

I've used Jobst Brandt's book as well as Lennard Zinn's book as my "go-to's" when wheelbuilding. And to a previous comment, no you don't need truing stands, dishing gauges, tension gauges, etc. to build good wheels. Those are useful tools which help speed the process, but if you have your bike, really all that is needed is a quality spoke wrench and a bit of lubricant for the nipples. Years ago, I (re) built a back wheel the night before an event in my hotel room with nothing more than my bike and a spoke wrench. Today, that rear wheel is still on my bike and is true and round.

The first wheel is the hardest, the first rear wheel is a bit harder still. Agree that the OP's lacing does not look correct.

repechage

yes- the crossing spokes are not forming an isosceles triangle.

time to take it apart

Salamandrine 

EDIT
Yeah, now that I'm looking at it in the morning instead of late night , some of the spokes do look like they are in the wrong holes. On third look however it think it's an optical illusion because it's difficult to tell which spokes are on which side because of the angle of the photo. Check everything again.

The way I do it is to install all the inside pulling spokes on both sides, twist the hub. At this point install the opposing spokes first on one side, then the other. It's pretty easy this way to get everything in the right place. This method is also adaptable if you want to put pulling spokes outside, use a different cross #, adjust for the offset of holes on the rim, etc.

I see some wacky ways of describing wheel building out there. Going by numbers is kind of like following GPS instead of a map; and never actually knowing where you are until you (hopefully) get there.

Classtime 

When this has happened to me, I start over.
https://www.wheelpro.co.uk/wheelbuilding/book.php
(I think Roger Musson is the king of diy wheelbuilding.)

noobinsf 

67tony , I'm pretty sure I had the same problem on post 12 of this thread, and I solved it on post 17. Your spokes are out of sync by one hole, I think. I'm not an experienced wheel builder, so it could be some other cause, by my symptom was the same.

https://www.bikeforums.net/bicycle-m...-champion.html

Salamandrine 

Yeah, it's possible this happened. As I said we cannot see the other side flange in those photos, so it isn't possible to check the sync.

Let's verify sync. RE first photograph. It looks like the first pulling spoke on the facing side (call this the right side) is going to the second rim hole clockwise from the valve hole. Presumably that is the hole offset to the right side. That is fine. In this is the case then the opposite flange pulling spoke should go in the hole 1/2 a space to the left, or counter-clockwise. If you offset it 1/2 space the other way, you get the problem you have.

SurferRosa

I can't tell it's laced incorrectly. I downloaded one of the pics so I could zoom, and what I checked looked good to me. It's still difficult to tell from pics. If someone knows for sure you laced it wrong, it would be helpful for him to download the pic, identify what's wrong in a photo editor, and upload the edited photo.

Straight ahead pics make it difficult to see which side of the hub the spokes come from. Maybe upload some from an angle.

Salamandrine 

How about this?

The bottom green circle indicates where the opposite side pulling spoke should start. (not visible). If it's offset in the other direction (clockwise) it is wrong.

SurferRosa

A few simple lacing rules to check on a 32h or 36h 3x build:

- Every adjacent spoke in the rim comes from a different flange.
- Every adjacent spoke in a flange faces the opposite way.
- For rims with offset holes, spokes run to the flange in the same direction as the offset.
- Every spoke crosses three and only three spokes, which are from the same flange.
- Only on the third cross is the spoke woven. So all spokes go "over, over, under" or "under, under, over."
- There are three spoke holes in the rim between a flange's adjacent leading and trailing spokes.

Dfrost 

+1 on this, except I use Leonard Zinn’s sequence. I’ve built somewhere over 40 wheels, and I always have Zinn’s text and illustrations in front of me when building, His self-checks are excellent and have helped me avoid the occasional goof.

FWIW, I’ve also added notes for wheels when I want to switch rear pulling spokes from outside the flange (his approach) to inside the flange (Sheldon’s preferred arrangement). I see benefits with both, and haven’t had problems with either one.

Looking at the photo above, pretty sure the spokes on the near-side flange are off one hole CCW. Two adjacent spokes at the rim should come from two adjacent holes on opposite flanges, offset so their distance to the rim is the same. These seem to be reversed. Pretty sure Salamandrine is saying the same thing.

Doug Fattic 

Because this is a 32 hole Sun rim, the rim hole in the picture that is just to the right of the valve hole (you put a green circle around it) is offset from the rim's center so it is supposed to have a spoke that comes from the hub flange that is closest to the camera. If I understand the position of your colored circles correctly on the hub, you are suggesting that the spoke that goes into the green circled rim hole comes from the flange on the far side of the hub from the camera. In fact it needs to come from the flange nearest the camera. The spoke that goes to the rim hole 2nd to the right of the valve hole (you circled it in red) has to come from the flange on the far side. If the OP was to look directly down at his hub (like it is presently oriented in his picture), the spoke for the rim hole circled in red would originate from a hub hole on the far flange that is just a bit clockwise (or behind) where the 1st spoke is located.

Putting green and red circles on the rim and hub holes is really helpful in explaining where spokes are supposed to belong. For those of you watching/reading at home while eating popcorn trying to follow how to lace a wheel, holes are not usually centered on a rim but are rather offset so that a spoke going to a certain rim hole has to come from a flange on that side. To confuse matters manufacturers are not consistent on which way the offsets are compared to the location of the valve hole. For some rim makers, the spoke pattern Salamandrine showed would be correct.

Salamandrine 

OK, yeah it's hard to impossible to make out which way the spoke holes are offset from those photos. As you say, it can be either way. I can't tell from the photo so i'm inclined to take your word for it. However, if the red spoke is the opposite side, why does it appear to cross a spoke on the side near the camera? Another possibility is that the OP has gotten the left/right offset in the rim holes wrong. I've seen this before...

Anyhow, no matter the offset on these rims, If the spoke with the green circle is the one closest to the camera, then it still should be inserted in the flange 1/2 a space clockwise from the red spoke, but on the flange closest to the camera.

The basic rule when the nipple end of a spoke is just to the right of its opposing spoke on the rim, the head end should also be just 1/2 space to the right in the hub flange. And vice versa. IOW the nipple and the head should be offset in the same direction.

79pmooney

I didn't read most of the post so this is probably already said. I'm virtually certain you missed the correct starting hole on one side by one. This means all the spokes are shifted forward on one side by one hole at the hub.

Sight down the hub. Corresponding spokes left and right should leave the hub from adjacent holes and hit the rim with a hole between them. (The forward of the two spokes leaving the hub must meet the rim forward of the other.)

The hub holes are staggered a 1/2 hole so it is a little hard to see which is the forward of the two but it can be done. Or tag the tight spokes on each side (one such spoke will do) and likewise a loose one on each side. Now you can see which side needs to be shifted a hole. (I'll come back in another lifetime and tell you the easy way to do that. Until then, it's unscrew each one on that side and move the spoke, )

Ben

SurferRosa

Actually, the rim is photographed backwards. See the orientation of the rim label. I use this same 32h Sun rim. The key spoke should be two spoke holes away from the valve. In his pic, the key spoke should be to the left of the valve and running from the flange away from the camera, just like the spoke directly to the right of the valve in the pic, circled in green.

When the rim and its label are oriented properly, and the valve is at 12:00, the key spoke should run from the drive side flange (from almost a 3:00 position in the flange) and run to the rim two holes away from the valve on the right.
​​​​​​

Andy_K 

I tried to do this last night (without identifying marks) but I was too hasty and couldn't even convince myself today with the picture I posted. Here's a better one.



The darker lines show intersecting spokes. The lighter line of each color shows where those spokes should intersect, based on finding the mid-point between their heads and drawing a radial line out.

SurferRosa

This is how the hub and rim should be oriented, with the hub label at the top and the rim label facing the drive side at the bottom.



Makes it easier if you photograph it from the drive side.

SurferRosa

Here's a drive side pic of my Sun 32h rim. The key spoke is two holes away from the valve (lower right in photo).


.
In a pic like this, it's easier to determine where the spoke exits the hub.

67tony 

BINGO...PICTURES!!!
Pictures? Nay, illustrations is the far better term.
Thanks so much...being a teacher for 30 years I know well how many are visual as opposed to verbal learners.

Thus, below, is what I believe to be a well-laced 3-cross front wheel.
All nipples are at the same depth, and all spokes have similar tension. Next I start drawing it in, and putting it on my Bike Hand YC-512N. Apparently I've got my pulling (leading?) spokes exposed on the outside of the hub, but of course do not know the pros or cons of that.

67tony 

Here's a pic frome the same angle as SurferRosa's.
Spokes are not tensioned yet...

Doug Fattic 

The most helpful picture would be almost straight down but with just enough side angle so one can just see the spoke holes on both flanges and you are able to see clearly which spoke from one flange is in front or behind the other.

SurferRosa

It looks like it's the opposite of mine, and I use Sheldon's method of trailing spokes, beginning with the key spoke, running inside the flange.

seedsbelize 

Roger Musson for the win. I feel fortunate that I started out with him. No need to ever change.
That's not to say I never had to unlace and start over. I built some wheels lately, after a several years absence, and had to lace the rear four times to get it correct. Of course part of the problem was mis-labeled spokes.
I will also say that, after ten years with the plans, I finally built his truing stand. What a timesaver!!! I had been using an old frameset.

Doug Fattic 

This description of spoke placement is just so you can be able to lace a wheel correctly. There are several other ways it can be done. My description isn't about the details or philosophy involved in building a wheel. It is easy to get into the weeds with all the variations and opinions. This way has worked for me building hundreds of wheels over many years.

When you start all over again, I suggest/recommend that you place the valve hole at the 6 o’clock position. Thread your 1st spoke in the 1st hole to the right (or counterclockwise) of the valve hole (when you are looking down at the rim laying on a table). The spoke can be in any hub hole that is on the right (or up) side (the one that would be closest to the camera). By starting the spoke from the outside of the hub, the spoke body will end up on the inside - which if course puts the head on the outside of the hub flange. Finish putting in the other 7 spokes that belong in that sequence. That would be every other spoke hole on that side of the hub and every 4th hole on the rim.

The next group of 8 spokes (because you have 32 holes) will be just behind the 1st group. This is because of the way Sun rim holes are offset. They will be almost parallel to each other. This is where you have to be careful and where you probably messed up before. When you flip the hub/rim over (for easy access to the holes on the other side of the hub) the next rim hole you will fill will now be the 2nd hole to the left of the valve hole (going clockwise). Locate which hub hole you will next fill by looking straight down at the hub. The holes on the bottom flange are offset so they are between the holes on your top flange. Find the hole that is just behind (or to your left going clockwise) of your original 1st spoke hole. This is where you will start your next group of 8 spokes. Again the spoke body is on the inside and the spoke head on the outside. When you are finished with that group of 8, twist the hub so the spokes go away from the valve hole. You have twisted it the wrong way if you have spokes cross over the valve hole.

It almost doesn't matter which of the next free 16 hub hole choices you next put in a spoke for the next group of 8 spokes as long as your pattern is correct. The spoke will enter on the inside the hub and exit on the outside. Cross over 2 spokes and under the 3rd spoke. Make sure that you place the spoke in the hole in the rim that is 2 spaces away from the other spoke (one space in-between) from the same side. It is easy to make a mistake here and put it either 1 or 3 holes away. Where the 4th set of 8 spokes go on the other flange is obvious.

The exceptions to general rules can make descriptions more difficult and wordy. When trying to explain the exceptions, everything becomes confusing. For example most rims including yours offset their holes from centerline so spokes more directly point to one flange side or the other. Usually if you look down at the valve hole with your head on the inside of the rim, you will see that the 1st hole to the right of the valve hole is offset a bit towards you. However some rim makers reverse which holes are offset and that can change your spoking sequence from a general standard.

67tony 

DAMMIT!
I had a 50/50 chance of doing this right, and of course did not.
This miscue, coupled with the (slight) preference for running the trailing spokes inside the flange, necessitates me starting over yet again. But...that just gives me a bit more practice!

Doug, thanks a ton for your plainly-worded description.
If I read things often enough, and in a variety of terminologies, it's starting to make sense.