oik01

So I had been having neck pain issues on my trek 5000 and decided to get a bike fit after my attempts at a solution failed ( I moved my saddle all the way back to keep weight off the front, put a shorter 17 degree stem on to get me more upright)
I registered for the highest level bike fit but when I got to the store she suggested I just go with the basic fit for my purposes.
Upon arrival to the store the fitter examined my bike and told me the reason I won't be able to fix my issues with what I did is that the geometry isn't good. Particularly she pointed at the seat tube angle ( 72.8 degrees on those bikes) and the downsloped toptube. I told her that I wasn't interested in a new bike and just wanted to see if she thinks she can make adjustments in my current setup to get me more comfortable even if not ideal. She said she definitely can get me way more comfortable. This is what ensued:
- She took accurate measurements as expected but other things were never measured for example shoulder width.
- She then had me cycle a little on the trainer on my bike .
- She then told me the size was mainly ok but my issue was that I was seated way too backwards and that the handle-bar was too upright ( note that those were changes I had made to help solve the issue. I had also changed to a handlebar with a flat transition to the brake levers.) She suggested that I would need a new seat post ( I think mine was an aero seat post and puts me even further back, new 100 x 6degree stem mainly to get me more drop, and new handlebar.

My questions were:
- I am trying to save money. I would prefer not to buy a new 100$ stem if its not needed. I have lots of spacers on the bike. Bringing the same stem down by 2 cm would put the handlebars in about the same position as would changing to her suggested stem. ( see picture) Is it ok if I do that instead. She said no, that I am not understanding the process and that the stem angle matters. I told her I don't see how my body would care about anything other than where the handlebars are located in space ( How they got there be it on a high rise stem or a normal one is not something that my body would be affected by.). She told me I didn't understand and that the stem change was necessary. Here I was already upset because I felt like she clearly had no idea about logic let alone bike fitting.

My solution would have saved me money and put the handlebar in roughly the same spot and I just wanted to try that before buying her 100$ stem.


- Issue two: I then moved on to the second question. She was suggesting changing the seat post or the bike because I was placed way too far back on the bike. So I asked if I can ameliorate that by moving my saddle forward since it was already all the way back ( I would have to raise it a bit which brings me back a bit again but the net result would still be a significant more forward adjustment.) Her response was that moving the saddle forward would not help because the issue was the weight distribution which needed to be a bit more forward and that my problem was the seat tube angle. This again made no sense to me since my but doesn't care about the seat tube angle but just about its spacial location relative to the BB, pedals, and handlebar and that can be changed ( perhaps not ideally) without changing my seat tube angle.

At this point I asked to speak to another fitter. He came in and gave me the same story about my seat tube angle etc. I told him again that I understood that and am not expecting a perfect solution but just guidance about how to make things better. He suggested I change the saddle to somethign with a longer rail and move it all the way forward ( said that I needed to move 5 cm forward to get to the right spot but moving my short fit saddle all the way forward only provided 2.5 cm- the rail is very short on that one). He also suggested that I flip my stem to get a bit more drop and increase my reach.
I thought that this was at least helpful but a little less than what I had hoped for ( was hoping for exact measurements or atleast for them to move it forward and ask me how it felt. Then perhaps flip the stem and see how I looked etc. I was hoping to know if my handlebar width was adequate etc)
They promised to send me a fit report. This is what I got in email:


Im not sure why they selected New frame as opposed to retrofit since I was aiming to retrofit my old bike.

then the report:


Handlebar width is off. I am definitiely not 46 and that was never measured. My crank arm length is 172.5 so that was put in wrong. With the information shown I can't figure out their suggested saddle fore-aft. All I know is that the guy later told me to bring it foreward 5 cm but my position is different now with the new saddle and I can't compare to the old one ( was hoping for a report mentioning setback relative to BB for example).


What do you guys think of my experience. Was I just not receptive or was this really as bad as I thought? My feeling everytime I think about this is that it was 150$ thrown down the waste and that I will need a proper redo from someone else once more places open for business. Thoughts?

philbob57

You say you have neck pain; the report says no. Not measuring shoulder width seems questionable. I don't get why a 72.8 degree STA is a problem. Maybe you weren't receptive, but I don't think they communicated very well with you. We have only your side of this, but I think a customer-oriented fitter would suggest experimenting with a cheap stem before blowing $100, which should be a pretty nice stem. Like you, I suspect they're using fitting to sell high-margin parts instead of making the fitting and recommendation a business in itself. I'd be unhappy with the fitting.

Question: You moved your seat back to reduce weight on the bars. Then you installed a shorter stem. Didn't that put more weight on your bars? Weight on bars is usually a core strength problem.

Also, neck pain seems to me to come from putting your neck at a more extreme angle. By moving the seat back, didn't that increase the angle at the front of your neck? (That's separate from the fitters' reco to drop the bars, which again increases your neck angle.) Maybe you need to be more upright to minimize neck pain and more core strength to minimize weight on your hands.

Iride01 

I still don't agree that moving seats back is better for taking weight off the hands and wrist. Then you just get more weight on the saddle.

With the saddle rearward and pedaling hard, I feel like I'm pushing myself off the back of the saddle. With the saddle more forward I seem to have my power output balanced on the bb more and when putting out power, I get a vertical lift that eases up quite a bit of weight on the seat. Lowering the handle bars well below the seat height eases my weight on my hands and wrists as I'm getting to the point where I start to not bend as easy and back muscles naturally hold that position.

As for your fit..... I've never had a professional fit. I'd lean more toward those that ask you what's bothering you. Watched you on your bike while on a trainer. And then told you what the solution might be. Never been one for basing fit on numbers. If I was having issues I would pay for a fit, but only after exhausting what I've read, asked and experienced myself for the last 50 years. But I don't have issues I can't solve, so I won't.

Willingness to experiment and try things even if everything else says it won't help has always produced something. Even if it just confirms what others have said is the bad way to go.

Hand position on your bike should also be changing. If you only ride with your hands in one position, then that will cause problems.

Neck pain could be as simple as taking the visor off your helmet or getting a helmet that doesn't come as low in the front. I almost thought I was going to have to change my new helmet, but then I found an adjustment that let it roll back further on my head giving me more forward vision in the drops without craning my neck up like a tortoise.

oik01

I will know for certain over the next few days but the first thing I noticed with moving my saddle forward was that I'm easily keeping my spine straight. I think I was far too backwards which made it difficult to hinge at my hip and instead I rounded my spine and ended up w bad neck pain and a forward tilted neck. That's my theory and if I can now tolerate longer sessions it will have proved it right. 🤷🏻‍♂️They also suggested I go lower and longer at the front by I'm following other people's advice on this forum and taking it one step at a time. This is my current position with the saddle more forward. They want me even more forward than this but it's not possible without my new seatpost and I'm not sure if thatle feel as good but I'm willing to try since they have more experience.

my position after moving forward. They want me more forward and a little lower/ longer at the front.

Iride01 

It would be a drastic change, but you could just turn the stem over. If you think that does something positive for you then maybe even try a longer stem to get a little more stretched out, if you can still keep a bend in the elbows. Play with spacers too. Take some out and put on top. No need to cut the steerer tube till you are absolutely certain.

Carbonfiberboy 

My recommendation is to stretch more! Rather than trying to make your bike fit your slightly too inflexible body, fix that latter. That fit does straighten your back, which is really good, but the suggested further changes will just put your hip angle back where it was, except with your weight further forward on the bike. Seems that way to me. But yes, you should be more stretched out and lower, but that's not helpful if it cuts into your comfort and endurance on the bike, and if the result of doing all that puts more weight on your hands, which also reduces comfort - if it does, that is.