fender1

Hi. This is the second mystery frame identification post for me.

Picked this up from a storage locker re-seller and looking for help in trying to I’d it.

Pics below:

repechage

I think both frames, (well not the fork on the green one) are from the same hand just the Green earlier.
I bet American, the braze on headbadge is the clue to the author.

This might be one for the CR list.

unworthy1

Agreed it's a Custom and most likely American (or NorthAM) but have no idea based on the "bird" motif. A lot of skill apparent in MOST of the lugwork except in spots where it's not so clean like the bottom of that complex fastback seat lug, and looks like a lot of file marks on that piece, too. Maybe a gifted amateur who was still learning.

nlerner

Mariposa?

3speedslow

Any serial stamping? Someone looking to create a brand but not successful?

P!N20

I thought it was a butterfly.

jdawginsc 

Definitely a butterfly. Beautiful frame.

My gal thinks it might have been a custom build for a woman based on the size...

Last ride 76 

+1

Last ride 76 

Wasn't there a Swallow Tail at some point?
South Western stylized perhaps?

unworthy1

A good guess about it being a Custom for a woman...bird, butterly, mariposa..whatever.
I'm going to strike a balance and say "moth".

fender1

Doug Fattic 

I am super curious about who made this frame. It has an extraordinary amount of custom details. The seat binder bolt is incorporated into the seat stays. The equipment to do this probably has to include using a vertical milling machine that many hobby builders could not afford or have the skills to do. It takes a lot of extra time to do that. Making the 2 head lugs into one piece also requires lots of extra work. It is surprising to me to see file marks. Almost every builder would use emery cloth to smooth out roughness left over from from shaping with files. Also the seat stay bridge has not been drilled out to accept a brake. It just has a little brazing vent hole. These factors leads me to believe this is an unfinished frame. For example the frame does not have any braze-ons and that makes no sense with all the other detail work that was done (even though in the early 70's it was popular to leave them off). The puke greenish paint color looks exactly like old House of Kolor primer. I think what happened is that the builder was not able to finish the frame ready to paint and threw on some primer just to protect it from rusting and then never came back to finish it completely.

Prugnat lugs and Campy 1010A dropouts leads me to believe this was a 70's or early 80's made frame. By the way this type of binder bolt treatment was popular for builders in the bay area in CA. While that is a kind of secondary clue I wouldn't put too much stock in saying that is where this frame is from. Also the cutouts are extraordinary too. A huge amount of effort went into doing all of them. My wild guess is that this smallish frame was made for a girl friend of a builder and then she dumped him so he never finished it but threw some primer on it for rust protection. His next SO may have been a different size or wouldn't want something tainted with his past. I sure hope someone recognizes the cut out pattern that can point to who might have made this very unusual frame.

juvela

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Mariposa?


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etherhuffer 

Aside topic as I look at the rust there. Can you hot tank an old frame and not ruin it? I know that chemical baths can ruin threads, thin walls, etc. It would be nice to know the inside of the tubes are not coated in rust as you rebuild.

aceves 

+1 on Mariposa, but definitely looks like a custom build.

aceves

unworthy1

lotsa votes for "Mariposa" but I don't know if Mr Barry's craftsmanship was ever that kind of "finished/crude" mash-up, even at his earliest.

Here's what a current Mariposa panto looks like, not very close!

repechage

I think different authors

jdawginsc 

All I know is that thing is truly beautiful and I wish I had found it first!

Feldman

An unfinished work by an unknown artisan--I will follow this thread with great interest! I didn't notice qr or lockout marks on the dropout faces myself.
I would not guess Mariposa, have seen some early ones and they look pretty straightforwardly European without the thinned lugs, etc.

USAZorro

Seatpost size and threading?

Cool mystery frame.

scarlson 

Yeah I agree with that. The beautiful and detailed work without a final sanding kind of reminds me of some '40s René Herse bikes, which are covered in file marks that you can see through the original paint. See them? (photo from vintagebicycle . wordpress, my Herse tandem is similar)


Of course the frame in this thread is not from the '40s or a Herse, but same idea, an early effort by a gifted craftsman, or maybe a craftsman who knew their work was top notch and didn't care about the final polish. I know I find sandpaper polishing to be an exhausting, grungy drag, after doing the "fun" stuff like prep and brazing.

slenten

Holy House of Kolor! The patina is excellent... the corrosion on that top tube almost looks like metal flake.
A new Surly color for 2021?

scarlson 

I bet you I could do it with a punch, a hand drill, and a piloted counterbore! But in general I agree and I like your theory about the spurned framebuilder. Poor guy or gal.

fender1

Seatpost is a tight fitting, 27.2 . Probably needs to be honed a bit and threading is English.

I put a thread on the CR list but no real activity as of yet.

Thinking of pairing this frame with the 531 fork, which could be cut and threaded as a “ reclamation special”. This frame, as cool as it is, does not fit anyone in my family.

unterhausen

I still have a frame I built for a girlfriend that dumped me before I finished it