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30 mph ebike this morning

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30 mph ebike this morning

Old 11-04-19, 10:48 AM
  #201  
livedarklions
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Originally Posted by rydabent
Ok how about this. Little Susie is riding 5 mph on her sidewalk bike. A regular cyclist is riding 15. Their difference in speed is 10 mph. Or a racer boy doing 20 and a special built E-bike going 30. Again the difference in speed is 10 mph. Same difference!!!!!!
Wow, you sure is good at the maths!

So if Susie is going 5, the regular cyclist is going 15, the racer boy is going 20 and the ebike is going 30, which one is most dangerous to Susie?

And kinetic energy (which is what kills you) increases with the square of the increase in speed, so the 10 mph difference between 20 and 30 is a much bigger deal energy-wise than 5 to 15, especially if this ends up in a head-on. And that's not even accounting for the likelihood that the ebike going 30 is substantially heavier than a non-powered bike going 20.
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Old 11-04-19, 05:08 PM
  #202  
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Originally Posted by rydabent
Or one of those "real cyclist" with his head down staring at his front wheel!!!!
"real" is up for debate on someone looking at their front tire. but Yea, those people are a bigger danger than e-bike riders!
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Old 11-04-19, 05:13 PM
  #203  
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Originally Posted by livedarklions
Wow, you sure is good at the maths!

So if Susie is going 5, the regular cyclist is going 15, the racer boy is going 20 and the ebike is going 30, which one is most dangerous to Susie?

And kinetic energy (which is what kills you) increases with the square of the increase in speed, so the 10 mph difference between 20 and 30 is a much bigger deal energy-wise than 5 to 15, especially if this ends up in a head-on. And that's not even accounting for the likelihood that the ebike going 30 is substantially heavier than a non-powered bike going 20.
You are projecting that E-bike riders are all going to ride like jerks. Or be irresponsible.

What is the underlying reason for you thinking that everyone on an e-bike will be irresponsible?
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Old 11-04-19, 06:53 PM
  #204  
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Originally Posted by Metieval
You are projecting that E-bike riders are all going to ride like jerks. Or be irresponsible.

What is the underlying reason for you thinking that everyone on an e-bike will be irresponsible?
Why are you making junk up? I have not said anything like that. I'm just making the rather obvious point that an ebike rider who is going to be irresponsible has more power to do damage than an irresponsible rider on a nonpowered bike, and we can expect the ebikes to get more powerful and cheaper (more common).
Some ebike riders will ride like jerks, most won't, just like the operators of any other kind of vehicles.
That's twice you've used the word "projecting" in a manner that makes no sense. I'm keeping score.
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Old 11-04-19, 07:07 PM
  #205  
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Originally Posted by livedarklions
Wow, you sure is good at the maths!

So if Susie is going 5, the regular cyclist is going 15, the racer boy is going 20 and the ebike is going 30, which one is most dangerous to Susie?

And kinetic energy (which is what kills you) increases with the square of the increase in speed, so the 10 mph difference between 20 and 30 is a much bigger deal energy-wise than 5 to 15, especially if this ends up in a head-on. And that's not even accounting for the likelihood that the ebike going 30 is substantially heavier than a non-powered bike going 20.
Probably the head down wanna be racer boy staring at his front wheel. As I have posted before I have been ran off the bike path 2 or 3 times by such a cyclist.
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Old 11-04-19, 07:26 PM
  #206  
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Originally Posted by rydabent
Probably the head down wanna be racer boy staring at his front wheel. As I have posted before I have been ran off the bike path 2 or 3 times by such a cyclist.
Well, what makes you assume the 30 mph ebiker can't be just as irresponsible?

Your non sequitur is the assumption that the existence of one kind of bad bike rider justifies putting powerful engines on bike paths. The two things have next to nothing to do with each other.
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Old 11-04-19, 07:32 PM
  #207  
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Well, I've been run off a trail or nearly run off a trail and nearly hit more by E-bikers than by regular non-assisted bicycles even though there are a LOT more bicycles hereabouts.

It seems to me that far too many E-bikers are getting onto an E-bike yet have no bike handling skills or common sense. Common sense such as NOT passing a bicyclist on the bicyclist's right side.

I think that soon around here anyway that E-bikers will have stopped non-assisted bicyclists from using the trails since these E-bikes make it just too dangerous. YMMV

Cheers
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Old 05-12-21, 07:24 AM
  #208  
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Originally Posted by m3tal070
I see a lot of people doing things that my own personal moral sensibilites consider 'wrong'. I just watch and see what happens, or go about with what i was doing.
I think there is a difference between someone doing something annoying an something that endangers others. Many years ago I was biking home around 8PM and there was a guy trying to get in his car and was so messed up he couldn't get his key in the door lock (this was before keyless entry was common) I stopped and tried to get him to get a cab. He told me to go f#ck myself and managed to get the door open and flopped into the seat and sped of weaving down the road. Sure as hell I called the cops- because he was an obvious danger to other road users.
A person driving what is essentially a electric moped on a MULTI USE PATH at high speeds is a danger to themselves and others. There can be kids on the path, dogs on those stupid eleactic leashed, old ladies walking 3 abreast. (Those last can be an example of "annoying but not dangerous" for you). Speed increases the potential of serious injury/death on impact. A person riding at 30MPH on a MUPS is a danger to other users. So yeah I say get the authoritied involved.

Just yesterday I was on my local MUPS and had just slowed down for a kid/dog party on the MUPS when I see a guy with a fat tire ebike cruising along at some pretty good clip (I dont know exactly but over 15MPH probably over 18) headphones blaring loud enough I could here the song (Steely Dan... why do d-bags all like Steely Dan? They are a pretty good band but their fans ) EYES CLOSED throttling (no pedaling) towards the group of kids. I gave the motorcycle slow down sign, but HIS EYES WERE CLOSED so I yelled "LOOKOUT COPS" and boy he heard that and slowed right on down.

This has been a worsening trend as ebikes get cheaper and more available (just a couple weekends ago there was a couple pushing their way through a MUPS yelling "Look Out!" and "get out of the way" on a super crowded and popular MUPS in Bend full of kids and pedestrians on their $4000 plus electric ebikes. teh inevitable serious crash/injury/fatality is not too far off. When that happens the law will step in and it will be heavy handed and dumb because thats how laws work. Speed limits will be so low on MUPS that biking on them will be pointless for getting anywhere (like 12MPH) .

I say this even though I think ebikes have AWESOME potential as a mobility aid, commute vehicle, urban game changer. BUT I think there is a point where if you are going above a certain speed you need to be on a road and not on what is in America anyway a wide sidewalk. For me that is about 18MPH. When I want to get trucking over that speed I play in traffic. Now what we need is a seperated bike infrastructure so we are not terrorizing pedestrians the same way cars do Bikes on the road, but until that exists in the current infrastructure MUPS need to have a max speed... and while we may disagree with that speed it is surely under 30MPH.
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Old 05-12-21, 10:11 AM
  #209  
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Yeap, as prices come down, more and more people, which will inevitably include more idiots, will be on the MUPs causing havoc. I'm so glad I stay off the MUPs, in favor of the roads, because the MUPs will only get worse. I'm seeing more and more of these careless morons that ride way too fast for their abilities.



.
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Old 05-12-21, 02:08 PM
  #210  
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If i see someone riding an E-bike, I just assume they're lazy, and I'd bet that 90% of the time I'm right. Try to sugar coat it all you want.
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Old 05-12-21, 03:29 PM
  #211  
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Originally Posted by Joe Bikerider
Maybe I didn’t explain it well. I was driving in a car.
Why were you in a car on the MUP?
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Old 05-12-21, 03:41 PM
  #212  
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Originally Posted by krakhaus
If i see someone riding an E-bike, I just assume they're lazy, and I'd bet that 90% of the time I'm right. Try to sugar coat it all you want.
Well I have actually talked to some ebike riders and amongst them have been:
people with long commutes
people with chronic pain
people recovering from accidents
and yes people who can’t drive because they have DUIs. Alcoholics need to get places too.
Hey and maybe they are lazier than people riding bikes but they are not lazier than the 75% Americans who will drive 4 blocks rather than walk. It can be a transition to a more active life. People have a right to be lazy.. it’s 🇺🇸! They do not have a right to endanger other people by riding too fast for conditions. So maybe save your judgements?
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Old 05-12-21, 04:46 PM
  #213  
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On our local MUP a few days ago I came upon two ebike riders that were drafting a group of road bikers. They were coming at me at a very good clip and there was a curve in the MUP, the two ebikes for some reason could not make this curve without swinging out into my side of the MUP. The road bikers stayed on their side. I almost decided to hold my ground but at the last second I moved off into the grass. I am glad I did as they had no clue on slowing down or taking any kind of evasive action to avoid a crash into me. They sped on by me wide eyed.
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Old 05-12-21, 05:04 PM
  #214  
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Originally Posted by krakhaus
If i see someone riding an E-bike, I just assume they're lazy, and I'd bet that 90% of the time I'm right. Try to sugar coat it all you want.
Well I have actually talked to some ebike riders and amongst them have been:
people with long commutes
people with chronic pain
people recovering from accidents
and yes people who can’t drive because they have DUIs. Alcoholics need to get places too.
Hey and maybe they are lazier than people riding bikes but they are not lazier than the 75% Americans who will drive 4 blocks rather than walk. It can be a transition to a more active life. People have a right to be lazy.. it’s 🇺🇸! They do not have a right to endanger other people by riding too fast for conditions. So maybe save your judgements?
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Old 05-12-21, 05:05 PM
  #215  
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I've seen an e-bike come over a hill on our local MUP and almost run down several women walking. It was at the end of the trail near the parking lot and the street. I was too far away for him to hear me yell at him to slow the **** down. He looked for a gap in traffic at the road and darted between the traffic to where the MUP continues across the street. The pedal cyclist stop and wait at the crosswalk to get across because the traffic is pretty heavy. I'm concerned that the e-bike has generated a type of cyclist who could will give the rest of us a bad image. I know its not everyone on an E-bike but it only takes one incident to make parks and rec departments come up with new rules for us all.
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Old 05-12-21, 05:53 PM
  #216  
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Originally Posted by rydabent
the head down wanna be racer boy staring at his front wheel.
That bread went stale a long time ago. At least humor us with something new.
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Old 05-12-21, 06:33 PM
  #217  
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I wonder why I ever post here

Originally Posted by indyfabz
That bread went stale a long time ago. At least humor us with something new.
I'll just go back to cycling and hiking since the water here isn't friendly. BYE, FU ban me, whatever
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Old 05-12-21, 07:27 PM
  #218  
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Originally Posted by thepartsguy
I'll just go back to cycling and hiking since the water here isn't friendly. BYE, FU ban me, whatever
Wut

And it's not an airport. You don't have to announce your departure.

Last edited by indyfabz; 05-13-21 at 06:48 AM.
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Old 05-12-21, 10:44 PM
  #219  
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Originally Posted by starkmojo
<edited for brevity>...and yes people who can’t drive because they have DUIs. Alcoholics need to get places too. They do not have a right to endanger other people by riding too fast for conditions. So maybe save your judgements?
There’s just so much BS in this quote that I’m just gonna point it out and walk away.
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Old 05-24-21, 10:19 AM
  #220  
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Originally Posted by AdkMtnMonster
There’s just so much BS in this quote that I’m just gonna point it out and walk away.
I am sorry what is the BS? Do people without a license have no right to get around, or do they have a right to endanger others? I am not sure what your issue is because you completely failed to communicate your idea here.

Actually IDGAF what your problem is, because it is probably internal to your head and that is your problem not mine.
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Old 05-24-21, 12:03 PM
  #221  
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I haven't read through this entire thread, so forgive me if this has been covered, but in most states you can legally ride a 50cc scooter without a motorcycle license, and these will go much faster than any e-bike. I've got a Specialized 2x-me output e-bike, and rarely use full power, and do much of my riding without assist at all. Even with full assist up to 28mph, it's pretty hard to hit 30mph on the flats with the gearing it has. I bought an e-bike mostly because I like gadgets and new technology, and the other benefit has been I enjoy riding more, ride farther, faster, and with less tear on my bad knees. It's interesting to see (more disappointing really) the divide between regular riders and e-bikers, but there's no question that it has sparked the sport and has more people than ever riding, and returning to riding. It has also been a boon to bike shops, that can't seem to keep e-bikes or their accessories in stock. I can't believe anything that gets more people riding, and more LBS's being profitable, is a negative for the sport. If anything, the more e-bikes fit into the future of electric vehicle mobility, 2-wheel commuting, etc., the more likely the infrastructure of bike lanes and bike-friendly cities is to advance and benefit riders of all kinds of bikes.
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Old 05-24-21, 03:12 PM
  #222  
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Originally Posted by Ogsarg
Why is going 30MPH on an e-bike more dangerous than you going 30MPH on a human powered bike? If they should be licensed and insured, then all bikes/riders capable of 30MPH should be also. .
That's a good idea; licensing adult bicycle riders and making them buy insurance is aces with me.
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Old 05-24-21, 03:15 PM
  #223  
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Originally Posted by thepartsguy
I know its not everyone on an E-bike but it only takes one incident to make parks and rec departments come up with new rules for us all.
New rules may be warranted now.
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Old 05-24-21, 03:59 PM
  #224  
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Originally Posted by Milton Keynes
Like I said, in order to pass laws regulating them, they're going to have to first come up with a legal definition of them.
They already have. HR 727 on the federal level, countless definitions on state and local levels.

The federal law does not limit the maximum speed of the ebike, it only states that the motor must be limited such that it can't take a 170# rider faster than 20 mph on "motor alone". Nothing to stop the rider from adding his own power to hit 40 mph on a down hill if so inclined.

BTW the federal law also states that it supersedes any state law that is more stringent than the federal definition.

The whole thing is so poorly defined as to be almost unenforceable. Software limits can be applied to comply with the law. Easy to change and impossible for a ticketing officer to verify. The word "power" is subject to interpretation as well. Is that motor mechanical power or battery draw? Sustained or peak? Measured at the motor output shaft or rear wheel?
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Old 05-25-21, 12:49 PM
  #225  
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The guy I ride with has an ebike. He is on oxygen 24/7, just had a pacemaker installed. He is courteous and careful. We seldom exceed 20 mph on MUPS. He rode pedal bikes including coast to coast.

I'm reluctant to support new laws, rules, regulations lest we all get bit. Yes, some ebike riders are dirtbags but so are some pedal riders. I don't have a solution to the complaints raised in this thread.

I haven't seen any ebikes on the country dirt roads where I do 75% of my riding.
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