Is $4 a gallon gas enough??
04-23-08, 11:07 AM
#201
Night Rider
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: PNW...green, green, and more green.
Posts: 97
Bikes: '08 Diamondback Response Sport
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
I was sort of reminded of this last night when a coworker drove me home. He was talking about how he couldn't see going without a car (probably a truck more specifically). He then was mentioning that this was because he'd have a hard time hauling his boat around. He's also been considering trading in one of his vehicles that is more capable of towing the boat up the hills in our area, but doesn't want the payment. I understand what he's saying as he's got a family to take care of, but he is considering at least commuting to work via bicycle as he's about 1/2 mile closer to work than I am. Unfortunately he's the only one at work interested so far. 
04-23-08, 12:20 PM
#202
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Charleston, WV
Posts: 1,768
Bikes: Trek Mountaineer modified with a NuVinci; Montegue Paratrooper folding mountain bike; Greenspeed recumbent; Surly Big Dummy with Stokemonkey
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times
in
2 Posts
I was sort of reminded of this last night when a coworker drove me home. He was talking about how he couldn't see going without a car (probably a truck more specifically). He then was mentioning that this was because he'd have a hard time hauling his boat around. He's also been considering trading in one of his vehicles that is more capable of towing the boat up the hills in our area, but doesn't want the payment. I understand what he's saying as he's got a family to take care of, but he is considering at least commuting to work via bicycle as he's about 1/2 mile closer to work than I am. Unfortunately he's the only one at work interested so far.
If you could get him to commute, though, perhaps others might become interested.
04-23-08, 12:26 PM
#203
Señor Member
Boating season is coming up soon - I wonder how many recreational boats aren't even going to see the water this year. Both the fuel to haul the thing around, and the fuel to run the boat motor.
04-23-08, 12:46 PM
#204
Plays in Traffic
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Kitchener, Ontario
Posts: 484
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
A few pages ago someone mentioned that cycling is not really seen as "cool" or the thing to do. Perhaps one way to get more people on bikes is to advertise it as the "rebel" thing to do. Another would be to put a Harley Davidson sticker on a Walmart special and up the price from $99 to $199. Or have the manufacturers already tried this?
This strategy has until recently worked wonders for the Harley-Davidson company, where they will take an overweight, obsolete part and brand it as 'rebel' or 'classic' or something of the sort and look at the flocks of lemmings that bit the bait.
Unfortunately as of late it looks like they're going to have to start selling their obsolete technology at real prices as the market seems to be refusing to pay $20,000 for 1960's technology any longer. They did have a good run though.
This strategy has until recently worked wonders for the Harley-Davidson company, where they will take an overweight, obsolete part and brand it as 'rebel' or 'classic' or something of the sort and look at the flocks of lemmings that bit the bait.
Unfortunately as of late it looks like they're going to have to start selling their obsolete technology at real prices as the market seems to be refusing to pay $20,000 for 1960's technology any longer. They did have a good run though.
04-23-08, 01:07 PM
#205
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Madison, WI
Posts: 1,522
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
. One bowl to mix in, and if I'm being fussy about shape, I may bake it in something. For years I just stuck it right on the pizza stone.(it's a customized no-knead style recipe that I've been working on for the last 3 years. makes good deep dish pizza too. unfortunately, I think it largely works because I've baked so many loaves that it can't help working.)
Originally Posted by Tightwad
could it be that people would rather bake their own bread TO HAVE MORE MONEY TO SPEND FOR
GAS. or could it be that people could care less where this whole gas/oil issue is going just don't
change my american dream?
GAS. or could it be that people could care less where this whole gas/oil issue is going just don't
change my american dream?
The main reason I pay attention to oil prices is that lots of food is grown with petroleum derived fertilizers, and it has to be shipped. So food prices are directly related to gas prices, even for organic foods. And food fuels me, so I can go places. Even if I choose the lowest impact foods, oil prices will still affect food prices. And because the US government subsidizes certain foods, I can't go strictly by food price to determine how much oil is used to grow and transport a given food item.
04-23-08, 04:13 PM
#206
Member
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 27
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
A few pages ago someone mentioned that cycling is not really seen as "cool" or the thing to do. Perhaps one way to get more people on bikes is to advertise it as the "rebel" thing to do. Another would be to put a Harley Davidson sticker on a Walmart special and up the price from $99 to $199. Or have the manufacturers already tried this?
https://columbus.craigslist.org/bik/649617966.html
04-23-08, 08:27 PM
#207
Old fart
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 611
Bikes: 02 Specialized Allez, Cannondale M700
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Strap on 600 lbs of lead, a fat rear tire and a leaky oil can near the rear shock and you'll have a cool harley
04-23-08, 09:47 PM
#208
In the right lane
I've got nothing against bread machines, but I don't need one right now. I bake my own bannock. It's a simple recipe which takes a few minutes for prep time and about half an hour in the oven. That's all. Without an oven I can prepare it on a stove top or on an open fire. I don't care for store bread, especially white bread from the store.
04-23-08, 10:30 PM
#209
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: SoCal
Posts: 294
Bikes: Trek7300, GT Palomar
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
For NO KNEAD BREAD check out this very useful bread baking technique -very simple and super tasty!!!!!!!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=13Ah9ES2yTU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=13Ah9ES2yTU
04-23-08, 11:11 PM
#210
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: British Columbia, Canada
Posts: 2,206
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time
in
1 Post
Here you go:
BANNOCK
2 cups flour
4 tsp. baking powder
1/2 tsp. salt
3 tbsp. butter or shortening
1 cup warm water
Mix the dry ingredients. Cut in butter or shortening. Add warm water to make a stiff dough. If the dough is too soft, add a bit more flour. Knead just a couple of times. Spread on a lightly floured baking sheet or in an 8 by 8 pan and bake at 325 for 25 to 30 minutes.
To prepare on the stove top, put in a lightly greased pan and simmer on the lowest possible heat for 30 minutes on each side.
Bannock can also be cooked over a campfire. The dough can be wrapped around a stick and cooked the way one roasts wieners.
BANNOCK
2 cups flour
4 tsp. baking powder
1/2 tsp. salt
3 tbsp. butter or shortening
1 cup warm water
Mix the dry ingredients. Cut in butter or shortening. Add warm water to make a stiff dough. If the dough is too soft, add a bit more flour. Knead just a couple of times. Spread on a lightly floured baking sheet or in an 8 by 8 pan and bake at 325 for 25 to 30 minutes.
To prepare on the stove top, put in a lightly greased pan and simmer on the lowest possible heat for 30 minutes on each side.
Bannock can also be cooked over a campfire. The dough can be wrapped around a stick and cooked the way one roasts wieners.
04-24-08, 05:11 PM
#211
sniffin' glue
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Seattle
Posts: 3,177
Bikes: Surly crosscheck ssfg, Custom vintage french racing bike, Bruce Gordon Rock & Road
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
apparently it will take $8/gallon, or at least that's what it takes in europe....
Europeans turning backs on cars
Astronomical fuel prices stoke use of public transportation, bikes
https://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl...MN9O108LBQ.DTL
Snippet:
"The sticker shock at the pump that is now sending Americans reeling has long been a fact of life in Europe, where many countries like France and Britain add on hefty government tariffs. And while the recent hike in oil prices has been felt here as well, many Europeans have long been able to adapt, opting for public transportation and bikes and for smaller, more fuel-efficient cars than their U.S. counterparts, experts say."
Europeans turning backs on cars
Astronomical fuel prices stoke use of public transportation, bikes
https://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl...MN9O108LBQ.DTL
Snippet:
"The sticker shock at the pump that is now sending Americans reeling has long been a fact of life in Europe, where many countries like France and Britain add on hefty government tariffs. And while the recent hike in oil prices has been felt here as well, many Europeans have long been able to adapt, opting for public transportation and bikes and for smaller, more fuel-efficient cars than their U.S. counterparts, experts say."
04-24-08, 06:41 PM
#212
In the right lane
Here you go:
BANNOCK
2 cups flour
4 tsp. baking powder
1/2 tsp. salt
3 tbsp. butter or shortening
1 cup warm water
Mix the dry ingredients. Cut in butter or shortening. Add warm water to make a stiff dough. If the dough is too soft, add a bit more flour. Knead just a couple of times. Spread on a lightly floured baking sheet or in an 8 by 8 pan and bake at 325 for 25 to 30 minutes.
To prepare on the stove top, put in a lightly greased pan and simmer on the lowest possible heat for 30 minutes on each side.
Bannock can also be cooked over a campfire. The dough can be wrapped around a stick and cooked the way one roasts wieners.
BANNOCK
2 cups flour
4 tsp. baking powder
1/2 tsp. salt
3 tbsp. butter or shortening
1 cup warm water
Mix the dry ingredients. Cut in butter or shortening. Add warm water to make a stiff dough. If the dough is too soft, add a bit more flour. Knead just a couple of times. Spread on a lightly floured baking sheet or in an 8 by 8 pan and bake at 325 for 25 to 30 minutes.
To prepare on the stove top, put in a lightly greased pan and simmer on the lowest possible heat for 30 minutes on each side.
Bannock can also be cooked over a campfire. The dough can be wrapped around a stick and cooked the way one roasts wieners.
04-24-08, 09:51 PM
#213
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: British Columbia, Canada
Posts: 2,206
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time
in
1 Post
The recipe I've got is a First Nations recipe from western Canada, although I don't know which group specifically. There are plenty of variations. Using oats sounds like a Scottish tradition. I've tried adding oats and it can work, but I'm still experimenting with it.
04-25-08, 04:44 PM
#214
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 4,697
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 10 Times
in
9 Posts
Not to derail the thread but, $4.00 gas is just about a reality now. The gas station down the street just up the price of high test to $3.96.9
04-25-08, 07:56 PM
#215
Member
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 44
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
In 1964, when I started college, gas was about $.35/gal., cigarettes $.30 pack, a new full-sized car cost between $3000-4000, and a house might run you $15,000. Today, that car is $35000, the cigarettes $3.00/pack, the house $150,000 and gas $3.50/gal here. Wage growth in the same period has outstripped the 10x expense growth. Why should $4.00 gas be a big deal?
04-25-08, 08:12 PM
#216
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: northern California
Posts: 5,603
Bikes: Bruce Gordon BLT, Cannondale parts bike, Ecodyne recumbent trike, Counterpoint Opus 2, miyata 1000
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Past that mark already in the SF area. $5.00 gas is a reality. I'll bet it is way past $6.00 in remote places like Death Valley.
04-25-08, 08:20 PM
#217
Banned
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Ogopogo's shoreline
Posts: 4,082
Bikes: LHT, Kona Smoke
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 3 Times
in
3 Posts
And lets not forget, in 1964, only one wage per household was needed to support a family of four.
04-25-08, 09:03 PM
#218
Member
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 44
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Are you sure about that?
And lets not forget, in 1964, only one wage per household was needed to support a family of four.
And lets not forget, in 1964, only one wage per household was needed to support a family of four.
04-26-08, 10:53 AM
#219
In the right lane
I wonder if your expectations in 1964 were slightly less than today. This might make your 1964 wage seem pretty good in comparison to today. For example it is not unusual for a family of 4 these days to pay out $120/mo in cell bills, $100 in cable television and something similar for phone and internet. There were fewer 4-car families and a 5000 sq foot home would have seemed a ridiculous notion.
04-26-08, 11:21 AM
#220
Humvee of bikes =Worksman
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 5,362
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 6 Times
in
6 Posts
In 1964, when I started college, gas was about $.35/gal., cigarettes $.30 pack, a new full-sized car cost between $3000-4000, and a house might run you $15,000. Today, that car is $35000, the cigarettes $3.00/pack, the house $150,000 and gas $3.50/gal here. Wage growth in the same period has outstripped the 10x expense growth. Why should $4.00 gas be a big deal?
Easy credit wasn't all that easy. People expected to pay their bills in full each month.
Rampant ,vast, all consuming, consumerism hadn't been invented yet.
Kids went to school to learn not get drugged up.
Well, the 60's just were more calm on the money front. Then came the credit card
and deregulation fostered by Reganomics and America when to *****.
__________________
My preferred bicycle brand is.......WORKSMAN CYCLES
I dislike clipless pedals on any city bike since I feel they are unsafe.
Originally Posted by krazygluon
Steel: nearly a thousand years of metallurgical development
Aluminum: barely a hundred, which one would you rather have under your butt at 30mph?
My preferred bicycle brand is.......WORKSMAN CYCLES
I dislike clipless pedals on any city bike since I feel they are unsafe.
Originally Posted by krazygluon
Steel: nearly a thousand years of metallurgical development
Aluminum: barely a hundred, which one would you rather have under your butt at 30mph?
04-26-08, 02:19 PM
#221
tired
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 5,651
Bikes: Breezer Uptown 8, U frame
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times
in
2 Posts
It's a near impossibility to live totally free from the bonds of the oil industry. Petrochemical byproducts are used in so many things, it would be a real chore to avoid them all. You want to really see some people living free and clear from the oil industry's grasp? Go live with the Amish. (Of course, you'll have to give up some modern conveniences like electricity and zippers, but you'll really be sticking it to the man!)
There's a short-sightedness to the extremist viewpoint on either side of the oil argument.
The single-passenger, short-trip, giant-SUV driving crowd never wants to believe that we could run out of oil or that the pricing could become prohibitive. Aren't we fighting a war to preserve our current conspicuous consumption habits? The government will make sure everything is OK: They tell me so every night on the TV.
The punk-rocker, summer-squatter, anarcho-syndicalist idealists believe that cutting off the oil supply and getting rid of all cars and trucks immediately is the way to solve the world's problems, not looking deep enough into their own dependency on goods and services provided both directly and indirectly through (the generic Evil of) "oil".
There's a middle ground to be reached from either end of the spectrum, where dependence is reduced without significant reduction in quality of goods/services or increase in market costs. It's all a matter of working toward that solution; and a hundred million punker kids on bikes versus the the same number of Armani suited oil executives, flipping each other off and honking their SUV horns for a thousand years isn't going to get a single step closer to finding a resolution.
Do you really want to make a difference? Stop playing judge/jury/executioner in your own mobile kangaroo court, doling out "justice" by flipping people off. Study physics and chemisty, and work on a viable, sustainable alternative fuel source. Study permaculture and revolutionize the farming industry. DO SOMETHING PRODUCTIVE.
There's a short-sightedness to the extremist viewpoint on either side of the oil argument.
The single-passenger, short-trip, giant-SUV driving crowd never wants to believe that we could run out of oil or that the pricing could become prohibitive. Aren't we fighting a war to preserve our current conspicuous consumption habits? The government will make sure everything is OK: They tell me so every night on the TV.
The punk-rocker, summer-squatter, anarcho-syndicalist idealists believe that cutting off the oil supply and getting rid of all cars and trucks immediately is the way to solve the world's problems, not looking deep enough into their own dependency on goods and services provided both directly and indirectly through (the generic Evil of) "oil".
There's a middle ground to be reached from either end of the spectrum, where dependence is reduced without significant reduction in quality of goods/services or increase in market costs. It's all a matter of working toward that solution; and a hundred million punker kids on bikes versus the the same number of Armani suited oil executives, flipping each other off and honking their SUV horns for a thousand years isn't going to get a single step closer to finding a resolution.
Do you really want to make a difference? Stop playing judge/jury/executioner in your own mobile kangaroo court, doling out "justice" by flipping people off. Study physics and chemisty, and work on a viable, sustainable alternative fuel source. Study permaculture and revolutionize the farming industry. DO SOMETHING PRODUCTIVE.
__________________
"Real wars of words are harder to win. They require thought, insight, precision, articulation, knowledge, and experience. They require the humility to admit when you are wrong. They recognize that the dialectic is not about making us look at you, but about us all looking together for the truth."
"Real wars of words are harder to win. They require thought, insight, precision, articulation, knowledge, and experience. They require the humility to admit when you are wrong. They recognize that the dialectic is not about making us look at you, but about us all looking together for the truth."
04-26-08, 03:47 PM
#223
Night Rider
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: PNW...green, green, and more green.
Posts: 97
Bikes: '08 Diamondback Response Sport
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Ericy is right. He's got two boats, one he's storing/using until the owner wants it and the other is a 14' fishing boat I think. Neither I would consider tow-worthy via bicycle, though I've had a few laughs with him about it. He makes enough cash to fuel the boat and truck to haul it for the season, in fact he's gonna go fishing with my supervisor before work Monday morning. Still working on the bike commuting though, but he is considering it.
04-26-08, 04:36 PM
#224
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 310
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
I don't think any of use would go so far as petro free anything,
I'm thinking in my case living Ed Begley Jr. like. Him and bill nye the science guy are neighbors
and go on what I'd call "green competitions". too funny.
I'd also like to think I am making a difference. but I don't have to wear that on my flag pin.
I'm thinking in my case living Ed Begley Jr. like. Him and bill nye the science guy are neighbors
and go on what I'd call "green competitions". too funny.
I'd also like to think I am making a difference. but I don't have to wear that on my flag pin.
04-26-08, 06:31 PM
#225
Member
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 44
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Yes, I remember those days well when you and I were younger and just starting out.
Easy credit wasn't all that easy. People expected to pay their bills in full each month.
Rampant ,vast, all consuming, consumerism hadn't been invented yet.
Kids went to school to learn not get drugged up.
Well, the 60's just were more calm on the money front. Then came the credit card
and deregulation fostered by Reganomics and America when to *****.
Easy credit wasn't all that easy. People expected to pay their bills in full each month.
Rampant ,vast, all consuming, consumerism hadn't been invented yet.
Kids went to school to learn not get drugged up.
Well, the 60's just were more calm on the money front. Then came the credit card
and deregulation fostered by Reganomics and America when to *****.
Well, we remember the 60's alike at least...I'd be happy to return to those days, when as you say, mad consumerism wasn't really an issue. My memories of the 70's and early 80's are of the rampant inflation and 21% lending rates, that Jimmy (mad rabbit) Carter's administration brought that nearly destroyed the rural banking industry (where I was working at the time) as well as the farm economy. Reagan's administration restored a semblance of stability that enabled my family to leave the industry without losing everything we'd worked a generation to build, (though I wish we'd have sold out in '76)! The correction was extremely painful, but that wasn't Reagan's fault....this coming from a guy who voted for Carter both times. Hindsight is always clearer than foresight.