bulgie 

Long shot I know but here goes: I rehabbed this sad old derailleur, taking about a pound of crud off of it. Looks like it'll work like new (i.e. not all that well!) if I can just find the two missing pieces. Namely: the aluminum disk that bolts on over the upper pivots on the outside, and the screw for it. Those are the same as the cap and screw currently on the lower pivot.






The screw is M4 x 0.75, an uncommon thread. Normal M4 screw has 0.7 pitch. I tried a M4 x .7 screw and it binds up within about 3 turns.
Screw head is 6.75 mm diameter, 7 mm won't fit in the counterbore in the alu part, but I could take a larger head down to needed diameter. Screw head is similar to a "cheese head" style.

While I'm dreaming, anyone have one of those yellowish-white delrin covers that snap over the springs on the upper and lower pivots? I have one, the other is missing, replaced here (temporarily?) with a metal one off an Export 61. Don't worry, I didn't cannibalize an Export 61 for this part, it was a spare.

If someone has a damaged early Prestige that has the parts I need, I'd consider buying it. When I get mine all perfect and complete it still won't be worth much. Though historically interesting, consensus says it's not very good at doing its job. Too flexible, too easily damaged. But I like having it in "the museum" (junk pile) and I'd like to have it be complete/usable.

Also, can anyone pin down the date of manufacture? Disraeli Gears says '62. More pictures on request.

Thanks for looking
Mark Bulgier in Seattle

rosefarts

I think you could mod a cap from modern suspension forks. Some have a similar size cap you'd need to grind some threads off of. Usually black.

For the bolt, if it were mine, I'd probably run a tap down it in a size I knew I could get. Yes it forever changes the deraileur but it's for your museum, maybe even for riding, not the Smithsonian.

Edit, I think I have such a cap, found in the parking lot of a mountain bike trailhead. I'll look in the morning and send you a pic if I still have it.

juvela

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Hello Mark,

IIRC this Monsieur Lucien was current about 1962-64.

Have a carton in me workshop for broken and/or incomplete Prestige rears.

Unable to recall if there are any this early in there.

Am away from me velo grist cette semaine.

Shall be back there la prochaine and can check.

You may have secured what you require by the time I get back there but am happy to check for you.

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bulgie 

Very cool, I'd be much obliged if you would be so kind as to look when you get a chance.
No hurry! There is no project waiting for this mech.

The missing alu cap would be a 5-minute job for someone with a lathe, but I like to save up my favors from people I know with lathes, not use them up frivolously!

I also considered making the cap on my "poor man's lathe", a drill held in a vise. I think I could make a convincing copy, my main fear is it would look too good compared to the old scarred/patinated one, so then I'd have to make two. But I'd much rather have a real Simplex part. The scars and patina are a plus in my book.

I raise my glass à votre santé
Mark

Charles Wahl

Being unfamiliar with delrin dérailleurs, what are the two knurled adjusters with a coil spring between them? Some sort of spring-tensioning/balancing adjustment?

juvela

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they are the travel limit adjustment

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rosefarts

I found the black doodad in the middle. Headset cap and penny are a reference for size.

You'd have to do a little grinding on the back. If you want it, I'll put it in the mail.

juvela

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1963 Peugeot catalogue page -




manufacturer parts drawing -



Simplex Prestige derailleur (532)

VeloBase.com - Component: Simplex Prestige Criterium (earlier version)

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bulgie 

Thanks for looking, but those are both too big. The part I need has a 4 mm hole in the middle. The screw head would fall right through on those. Nice of you to dig 'em out and photograph 'em.

I tentatively have a lead on some original replacement parts, so hopefully no heroic measures will be needed. I'll post back if I get 'em.

Cheers
Mark

bulgie 

Excellent! Now I know the part numbers for the pieces I'm missing.
Interesting to see that in '63, the Prestige was half the price of an Export 61.

I don't disagree; the Export 61 is twice as good, just heavier.

Did you know (well I'm sure Juvela knows this but maybe not many others), the upper and lower pivots on the Export 61 are adjustable, so you can take out any free-play that develops from wear. Campy of the day, the Gran Sport, didn't suffer from much wear there, but the later NR definitely got annoying amounts of play there after enough gritty miles. They should have made an oversized bolt and a reamer to restore the original clearances.

The adjustment on the Export 61 is finicky and not easy, but I appreciate that they thought to include it. That feature didn't make it into the Prestige line.

Mark B

juvela

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Bonjour Encore Une Fois Professeur de Velo Ancien Marc,

checked me holdings and have exactly one model 532

it lives on a Gitane Hosteler ca. 1964 and is complete and OEM so do not wish to disturb it

hope you have found what you require by this late date...

pages from a Juy document of MCMLXIV -




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bulgie 

Thanks for those pages, super cool. I will study them as if there were a quiz later.

I did get my missing parts, and my mech is complete. I owe you guys photos, but today is my lovely wife's birthday, so no C&V activities for now. Even typing this email is stretching the limits of B-day etiquette!

Mark B

xiaoman1 

While I really like Simplex....it gives new meaning to the word "Prestige". I would go easy when rebuilding this one, while I do not own that particular model many of my Prestige models have cacked.
Good Luck and hope you get the parts that you are looking for....If anyone has them, this is a great place to look...other than eBay France.
Best, Ben

bulgie 

Mine is rebuilt already, no worries. No cracking on disassembly or re-assembly. I used strong detergent (not solvent) for cleaning, followed by Evaporust for the steel parts. It looks great.
I did get my missing parts, and my mech is complete. I got the parts I needed on the Classic Rendezvous list (sent to me for free, including postage!), so in this case, BF C&V failed. Other times, it'll go the other way, I know. Best to have as many arrows as possible in your quiver.

Mark B

xiaoman1 

bulgie 

A friendly guy took pity on me and sent me the parts I need, Here's the completed mech now:


The catalog says there was also a Luxe version, with the steel parts bright chrome plated -- this is not that one.

I think this one is the one made to attach to a frame with an integral hanger. At least, I can say it does attach to a dropout hanger, though I don't see why it couldn't attach to a separate "claw" adaptor too.

The '64 catalog scan sent by @juvela shows the pulleys as having plain bearings (bronze bushings), but mine have adjustable ball bearings. Maybe that was a running change done after when mine was made? I like how low-friction the ball bearing pulleys are when they're clean, but I bet the plain bearings stay clean better, and at some point a grunged-up ball bearing will have more friction. Since just about everyone, including Campy, started with balls but eventually made the switch to plain bearings, I wonder if studies were done showing they're actually faster than balls, or was this just a cost-cutting move?

More pics in a Flickr album here if you're interested. There's also a Juy Export 61 rear mech in that album, the all-steel older brother to the Prestige.

Mark B in Seattle

juvela

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pulley friction -

this was something which tended to slow the acceptance of derailleurs

there was a long held belief amongst "old hands" that running the chain through pulleys caused additional friction and slowed down the rider


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bulgie 

Well, it's literally and indisputably true that pulleys add friction, the only question is, enough to worry about? The market has spoken – we like pulleys! But that doesn't mean we don't also like minimizing friction, thus all the "sealed cartridge bearing" and "ceramic" this 'n' that. Bullseye was the first I remember that tried to make a big deal out of it. Also larger pulleys turn more slowly and thus capture less of your Wheaties as friction. But I think the consensus is that pulley friction is only something nerds and triathletes worry about.

Since I'm a nerd, I'm allowed to say that.

Mark B

dddd

The big problem I think with the ball-bearing pulleys is when water might settle in the outer race, causing rust.

Other than that, and using my many Huret bb pulleys (here in dry CA) on my Huret, Simplex and Suntour derailers, I have no issues with free and smooth rotation (though I do replace the original 1/8" balls with smoother GR25 balls which noticeably improves turning smoothness).
The loading on the pulleys is low enough that periodic oil-can lubrication works quite well in practice in mostly-dry conditions, at least for me. I grease them initially which lasts a very long time with synthetic grease.