Saddle adjustment
10-03-17, 07:28 AM
#26
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When that happens for me the first adjustment I try is to turn the nose of the saddle up a degree and try again.
10-03-17, 07:29 AM
#27
Hills!
Thread Starter
OK, I'll try that. Thanks.
10-04-17, 10:51 AM
#28
Hills!
Thread Starter
Well I tried raising the nose of the saddle and found that indeed, it did help lessen the pressure on the web between thumb and forefinger. OTOH, the riding position was not as comfortable, so about 10 miles into my ride yesterday, I lowered the nose of the saddle.
Not sure if that comfort issue is simply a matter of getting acclimatized to the new position or just what. But it felt better after I lowered the nose.
One thing I do NOT like about my Madone 5.5 is the saddle adjustment. It's one of those infinitely adjustable things that tighten into a new position from the position you set it too, so it tends to take a lot of fiddling to change and it's hard to make minute, incremental changes. My previous Pilot 5.2 was infinitely better at changing/adjusting saddle position than this thing is.
Not sure if that comfort issue is simply a matter of getting acclimatized to the new position or just what. But it felt better after I lowered the nose.
One thing I do NOT like about my Madone 5.5 is the saddle adjustment. It's one of those infinitely adjustable things that tighten into a new position from the position you set it too, so it tends to take a lot of fiddling to change and it's hard to make minute, incremental changes. My previous Pilot 5.2 was infinitely better at changing/adjusting saddle position than this thing is.
10-04-17, 11:16 AM
#29
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I had a professional fit and then tried the armpit over saddle and elbow to seat nose measurements - and they were within a cm or two of perfect. So, now, when I ride any bike (rentals, for example) I just set that and am good to go. Your body will tell you pretty quickly if you need to tweak it.
10-04-17, 01:05 PM
#30
Hills!
Thread Starter
Here's my current seat position relative to the elbow at the tip of the saddle.
10-04-17, 07:35 PM
#31
Hills!
Thread Starter
I just re-read the elbow post again and realize I mis-read the instructions. Based on the pic above and re-reading the elbow trick, I need to move the saddle forward to move the tip of my middle finger to the center of the handle bars.
10-05-17, 02:30 AM
#32
Senior Member
A few things. Did anyone mention you must level the bike first before adjusting saddle tilt (4 foot level on top of axels works fine). Once level, use a hard cover book on top of saddle with two foot level on top of that. Do this all the time BEFORE adjusting tilt and adjust slightly (maybe 1 degree ay a time between long rides) Use an inclinometer (phone app). Keep a record of where you are at. MMs do matter and it's easy to start chasing your tail and miss your sweet spots. Adjusting tilt on the road might result in too big an adjustment IMHO.
The process I like.
1 Find your saddle height first.
2 Balance point as mentioned, fore aft. If you can get your bike on a trainer gear as if your are going slighty uphill and see if you can swept your hand behind you. Saddle forward if you are falling forward. Get this right with a dead level saddle first and than forget fore aft it's set. Tilt adjustment only after many rides.
3 Saddle height changes when adjusting fore aft so recheck the height. Alway to exact spot on saddle.
4 From your picture it looks like your stem could too long IF all the above is good. I'd change stem length not fore aft as now you are chasing your tail if you mess with tilt fore aft etc. Move bars forward/backward/up down now. Leave saddle adjustments alone.
5 The other thing I believe not mentioned is the drop between saddle and the bars. Angled stem up/spacer up will lesson hand pressure and set you more upright.
Also remember if your are not in shape saddle pressure, hand issues lesson will lesson as you get stronger. Core strength does matter a lot! Any adjustment on your bike effects all the contact points so again IMHO a precise sequence must be followed to acheive best results.
The process I like.
1 Find your saddle height first.
2 Balance point as mentioned, fore aft. If you can get your bike on a trainer gear as if your are going slighty uphill and see if you can swept your hand behind you. Saddle forward if you are falling forward. Get this right with a dead level saddle first and than forget fore aft it's set. Tilt adjustment only after many rides.
3 Saddle height changes when adjusting fore aft so recheck the height. Alway to exact spot on saddle.
4 From your picture it looks like your stem could too long IF all the above is good. I'd change stem length not fore aft as now you are chasing your tail if you mess with tilt fore aft etc. Move bars forward/backward/up down now. Leave saddle adjustments alone.
5 The other thing I believe not mentioned is the drop between saddle and the bars. Angled stem up/spacer up will lesson hand pressure and set you more upright.
Also remember if your are not in shape saddle pressure, hand issues lesson will lesson as you get stronger. Core strength does matter a lot! Any adjustment on your bike effects all the contact points so again IMHO a precise sequence must be followed to acheive best results.
10-05-17, 10:03 AM
#33
Hills!
Thread Starter
Great tips!
No, no one mentioned making sure the bike is level. I have a 2ft level and a torpedo level, no 4ft level. I just went with the assumption that a level on the bike seat means the seat is level for all intents and purposes. Isn't that what we're after (as a starting point)?
It might be worth my while to have my LBS set me op on their trainer and get my seat position set. Assuming, of course, they know what they're doing.
But from a perspective of chasing my tail, it may be worthwhile.
No, no one mentioned making sure the bike is level. I have a 2ft level and a torpedo level, no 4ft level. I just went with the assumption that a level on the bike seat means the seat is level for all intents and purposes. Isn't that what we're after (as a starting point)?
It might be worth my while to have my LBS set me op on their trainer and get my seat position set. Assuming, of course, they know what they're doing.
But from a perspective of chasing my tail, it may be worthwhile.
10-05-17, 10:39 AM
#34
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@speedlever, have a look at Peter White's article on fit. I really like it.
1. My advice is to set the saddle height first, and I believe you've done that.
2. A starting place for the saddle fore-aft position is the tip of the saddle should be one or two inches behind the crank spindle, as measured with a plumb bob.
3. Then you want to figure out which height and reach you want your bars to be at. This is hard, and there are lots of factors that weigh in. One of them is your conditioning, so whatever you are accustomed to is going to weigh in on what you prefer. As Peter White says, you want to be able to sit on the saddle and take your hands off the bars and feel like you can support your upper body's weight, at least for a moment. Some of this depends on your lower back's strength. It also depends on your flexibility. Strength and flexibility can be built, so there is a position that is good for now, but there may be another position later, when your strength or flexibility gets better or worse.
I've recently done a lot of dead lifts which have helped my lower back as well as butt and thighs. I'm more comfortable leaning forward, and now that my back can hold my shoulders up, I can apply more force to the pedals with my legs and butt. I don't have hand problems, though, thank goodness. Some lower back work might help to reduce pressure on your hands.
1. My advice is to set the saddle height first, and I believe you've done that.
2. A starting place for the saddle fore-aft position is the tip of the saddle should be one or two inches behind the crank spindle, as measured with a plumb bob.
3. Then you want to figure out which height and reach you want your bars to be at. This is hard, and there are lots of factors that weigh in. One of them is your conditioning, so whatever you are accustomed to is going to weigh in on what you prefer. As Peter White says, you want to be able to sit on the saddle and take your hands off the bars and feel like you can support your upper body's weight, at least for a moment. Some of this depends on your lower back's strength. It also depends on your flexibility. Strength and flexibility can be built, so there is a position that is good for now, but there may be another position later, when your strength or flexibility gets better or worse.
I've recently done a lot of dead lifts which have helped my lower back as well as butt and thighs. I'm more comfortable leaning forward, and now that my back can hold my shoulders up, I can apply more force to the pedals with my legs and butt. I don't have hand problems, though, thank goodness. Some lower back work might help to reduce pressure on your hands.
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Tom Reingold, tom@noglider.com
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Blogs: The Experienced Cyclist; noglider's ride blog
“When man invented the bicycle he reached the peak of his attainments.” — Elizabeth West, US author
Please email me rather than PM'ing me. Thanks.
10-05-17, 10:57 AM
#35
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Thanks guys. I'll head out on a ride later this morning and see how it feels. Some interesting RoTs here! But KOPS and the elbow trick all tell me to move my saddle about 1.5-2 inches aft! (and there's not that much adjustment left in the saddle). But it's aft of where I used to ride it, based on markings on the slide rails.
Brief test rides at its present location make me think I was riding with it too far forward in the past as the perceived weight on hands seems much reduced from what I recall. But 5+ years is a long time between rides.
Brief test rides at its present location make me think I was riding with it too far forward in the past as the perceived weight on hands seems much reduced from what I recall. But 5+ years is a long time between rides.
Last edited by ptempel; 10-05-17 at 11:13 AM.
10-07-17, 04:14 PM
#36
Hills!
Thread Starter
Double check the plumb line measurement for KOPS. Are you also holding the line below your knee cap? If it still shows too far forward, then put the saddle as far back as you can get it and remeasure. If still forward of the pedal spindle, then you'll need to try a different seatpost with more setback than the one you have. I would get this dialed in first before messing with the stem length and position. Ideally, the saddle for and aft position should make you feel more "balanced". Not so far back that you can easily pop a wheelie with some head wind. But also not so far forward to put extra pressure on your hands and arms.
As a test, I moved the saddle all the way forward and reset the saddle height to compensate. The main thing I noticed on a 40 mile test ride was increased pressure on my hands, especially the web between thumb and forefinger when on the brifters.
I am continuing to piddle with saddle positions. But it may not be as big a deal as I initially thought. I’ve gone from full aft to full forward on the saddle, and from level to some nose up tilt. I’ve tried to keep the saddle height consistent using the armpit over the saddle/middle finger tip to crank spindle as my standard of measure.
I’ve now slid the saddle a short distance aft from the most forward position and gave it a quarter bubble nose up and adjusted the saddle height. A test ride for a few hundred yards felt promising. Once the rain quits, I look forward to a good long test ride!
10-07-17, 04:38 PM
#37
Hills!
Thread Starter
@speedlever, have a look at Peter White's article on fit. I really like it.
1. My advice is to set the saddle height first, and I believe you've done that.
2. A starting place for the saddle fore-aft position is the tip of the saddle should be one or two inches behind the crank spindle, as measured with a plumb bob.
3. Then you want to figure out which height and reach you want your bars to be at. This is hard, and there are lots of factors that weigh in. One of them is your conditioning, so whatever you are accustomed to is going to weigh in on what you prefer. As Peter White says, you want to be able to sit on the saddle and take your hands off the bars and feel like you can support your upper body's weight, at least for a moment. Some of this depends on your lower back's strength. It also depends on your flexibility. Strength and flexibility can be built, so there is a position that is good for now, but there may be another position later, when your strength or flexibility gets better or worse.
I've recently done a lot of dead lifts which have helped my lower back as well as butt and thighs. I'm more comfortable leaning forward, and now that my back can hold my shoulders up, I can apply more force to the pedals with my legs and butt. I don't have hand problems, though, thank goodness. Some lower back work might help to reduce pressure on your hands.
1. My advice is to set the saddle height first, and I believe you've done that.
2. A starting place for the saddle fore-aft position is the tip of the saddle should be one or two inches behind the crank spindle, as measured with a plumb bob.
3. Then you want to figure out which height and reach you want your bars to be at. This is hard, and there are lots of factors that weigh in. One of them is your conditioning, so whatever you are accustomed to is going to weigh in on what you prefer. As Peter White says, you want to be able to sit on the saddle and take your hands off the bars and feel like you can support your upper body's weight, at least for a moment. Some of this depends on your lower back's strength. It also depends on your flexibility. Strength and flexibility can be built, so there is a position that is good for now, but there may be another position later, when your strength or flexibility gets better or worse.
I've recently done a lot of dead lifts which have helped my lower back as well as butt and thighs. I'm more comfortable leaning forward, and now that my back can hold my shoulders up, I can apply more force to the pedals with my legs and butt. I don't have hand problems, though, thank goodness. Some lower back work might help to reduce pressure on your hands.
I have to confess that my core has not had any conditioning over the last 5 years of inactivity. That’s an area I probably should address, but right now I’m just happy to be riding again.
I find that my seat height varies depending on the fore/aft positioning of the saddle. (Ie, lower if aft and higher if positioned forward).
I’m curious about the tip of my saddle relative to the crank spindle. I’ll check where I have it currently set.
I’ll also confess that I have not considered bar position. You bring some very interesting points to the discussion.
My LBS charges $75 for a fit. That may be well worth the price.
10-08-17, 03:48 AM
#38
Senior Member
Speedlover quote:
"I just went with the assumption that a level on the bike seat means the seat is level for all intents and purposes. Isn't that what we're after (as a starting point)?"
HuH? Think about this statement. What if you level your seat and the bike is on a 3% incline? Now the nose will be pointing down as your level on the seat says level. Now if you decide to recheck it on a 3 decline???? Don't bite your tail!!!!!
I'll stick by the bike must be level first for any seat tilt adjustment. Now you have a true statring point
"I just went with the assumption that a level on the bike seat means the seat is level for all intents and purposes. Isn't that what we're after (as a starting point)?"
HuH? Think about this statement. What if you level your seat and the bike is on a 3% incline? Now the nose will be pointing down as your level on the seat says level. Now if you decide to recheck it on a 3 decline???? Don't bite your tail!!!!!
I'll stick by the bike must be level first for any seat tilt adjustment. Now you have a true statring point
10-08-17, 10:59 AM
#39
Hills!
Thread Starter
Speedlover quote:
"I just went with the assumption that a level on the bike seat means the seat is level for all intents and purposes. Isn't that what we're after (as a starting point)?"
HuH? Think about this statement. What if you level your seat and the bike is on a 3% incline? Now the nose will be pointing down as your level on the seat says level. Now if you decide to recheck it on a 3 decline???? Don't bite your tail!!!!!
I'll stick by the bike must be level first for any seat tilt adjustment. Now you have a true statring point
"I just went with the assumption that a level on the bike seat means the seat is level for all intents and purposes. Isn't that what we're after (as a starting point)?"
HuH? Think about this statement. What if you level your seat and the bike is on a 3% incline? Now the nose will be pointing down as your level on the seat says level. Now if you decide to recheck it on a 3 decline???? Don't bite your tail!!!!!
I'll stick by the bike must be level first for any seat tilt adjustment. Now you have a true statring point
10-08-17, 11:49 AM
#40
Senior Member
I don't understand the use of the tip of a saddle as a measurement point for much of anything, since saddles come in different lengths. It's a fixed point, so it's convenient, but should the distance between a vertical line extending from the BB, or distance from the bars, be different for different saddles?
I think the important measurement would be from, say, the ischial tuberosities to the handlebars or to the vertical line extending from the BB. It may be very difficult to get the measurement from the ITs, but isn't it much more significant that the position of the saddle's nose?
What am I missing?
I think the important measurement would be from, say, the ischial tuberosities to the handlebars or to the vertical line extending from the BB. It may be very difficult to get the measurement from the ITs, but isn't it much more significant that the position of the saddle's nose?
What am I missing?
