Saddle lower than hoods
07-11-13, 12:31 PM
#51
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Yer one of those dudes who calls back when someone realizes they called the wrong number and hangs up, then procedes to yell at them for calling your number, ain't you?
07-11-13, 12:32 PM
#52
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Another picture:
Will upload more pics with me on it shortly
Will upload more pics with me on it shortly
07-11-13, 12:38 PM
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07-11-13, 12:38 PM
#54
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This isn't Hot or Not - let's dial it back a notch. The lever position is fine - there's a nice transition from the bars to the hoods, it just looks bad because the stem is up and the bars continue that upward slope.
@MoreBlackSwan - I wouldn't be terribly surprised if the saddle position is correct or at least close to correct. I'm at 6' tall with shortish legs/longish torso and I didn't really look at bikes with level top tubes, like the CAAD - they just didn't give me enough nut clearance (and would have resulted in a stubby post like yours). That said, it's where I would start to sort out your fit - with the saddle height. If your leg is not quite straight at the bottom of the pedal stroke (without pointing your foot down excessively or rocking your hips on the saddle), try raising the seat .5cm at a time, or so. After the saddle height is correct, as comfort allows, gradually lower the position of the bars by flipping the stem and removing spacers.
@MoreBlackSwan - I wouldn't be terribly surprised if the saddle position is correct or at least close to correct. I'm at 6' tall with shortish legs/longish torso and I didn't really look at bikes with level top tubes, like the CAAD - they just didn't give me enough nut clearance (and would have resulted in a stubby post like yours). That said, it's where I would start to sort out your fit - with the saddle height. If your leg is not quite straight at the bottom of the pedal stroke (without pointing your foot down excessively or rocking your hips on the saddle), try raising the seat .5cm at a time, or so. After the saddle height is correct, as comfort allows, gradually lower the position of the bars by flipping the stem and removing spacers.
07-11-13, 12:38 PM
#55
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If you really are a guy who has short legs for your height and just beginning to get into road cycling, it isn't a terrible setup provided your legs are properly extended. Eventually you will gain the fitness and ability to get lower on the bike and then you can drop the stem. If you find you are riding in the drops a bunch and can do it without too much problem or suffer any loss of performance, I would say then drop the spacer stack, flip stem, or do both. The seat looks better in that picture.
Bottom line, if the bike is comfortable as pictured..ride it a lot.
Bottom line, if the bike is comfortable as pictured..ride it a lot.
07-11-13, 01:21 PM
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This may not help but when I bought my bike I was in between two sizes, 54 and 56. I got my LBS's opinion and then I called the manufacturer and asked there opinion. This particular manufacturer said we always recommend that you go with the smaller size frame.
07-11-13, 01:39 PM
#57
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So many experts here. First off no one can even possibly saya single thing at all without seeing you on your bike. Except for maybe the brifters could move around towards the front more to be flatter to your bars. Not all the pros like to ride with handlebar drops. Lance had a level set up. My bike is dead level and couldn't be more comfortable. I even have more power once we lowered my saddle and I sit rock solid on it now. Most guys rock back and forth if you look at them from the back. Hips rock and spine sways back and forth.
Really,,, why would you listen to anyone if they can't even suggest pics of YOU on YOUR bike.
Really,,, why would you listen to anyone if they can't even suggest pics of YOU on YOUR bike.
07-11-13, 03:02 PM
#58
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Heh. Whenever I see this phrase on an internet forum, I immediately replace the words with "...nobody is an expert... except me."
OP, take the comments under advisement. Just know that, as far as bike fitting is concerned, the legs are really where the "fit" takes place. You can almost do anything you want with the bars, as long as you are comfortable.
Lowering your bars do three things for you in terms of performance:
1) it helps with bike handling by putting more weight over your front wheel. To a point, this will make the bike simultaneously more stable and more maneuverable. If you've ever overloaded the bed of a pickup truck, you'll understand the concept (you end up with almost no steering authority).
2) it makes you more aerodynamic. This is elementary; less frontal area means less drag.
3) it allows you to use your glutes more during your pedal stroke. As your hip angle closes (you lean over more), your glutes take up more and more of the pedaling load, to the point where your quads and glutes are sharing the load equally. Since the glute muscles are just as strong or stronger than your quads, this is a good thing if you want to generate more power.
The three chief disadvantages:
1) less comfort. This is as elementary as the point about aerodynamics. If you are interested in comfort over speed/power, then choose a higher bar position.
2) too low and your legs start running into your abdomen, even to the point of hitting your chest and affecting your breathing.
3) if you are so low that you need to lock your arms to touch your bars, then your bike handling as adversely affected.
The takeaway is that bar position is about riding style more than it is about "fit". A bike fitter wants to make sure your pedaling is efficient and you aren't wrenching your joints out of whack. That makes bike fitting more about saddle height than anything else. Racers and sport riders ride with low bar positions because they are concerned more about power generation and aerodynamics than comfort. Tourers are opposite; they care more about comfort than power generation or aerodynamics. Don't be afraid to experiment. The only caution is, if you aren't sure what you want, you may wait a bit before cutting the fork steering tube. Once that steering tube is cut short, the only way to lengthen it is to buy a new fork.
OP, take the comments under advisement. Just know that, as far as bike fitting is concerned, the legs are really where the "fit" takes place. You can almost do anything you want with the bars, as long as you are comfortable.
Lowering your bars do three things for you in terms of performance:
1) it helps with bike handling by putting more weight over your front wheel. To a point, this will make the bike simultaneously more stable and more maneuverable. If you've ever overloaded the bed of a pickup truck, you'll understand the concept (you end up with almost no steering authority).
2) it makes you more aerodynamic. This is elementary; less frontal area means less drag.
3) it allows you to use your glutes more during your pedal stroke. As your hip angle closes (you lean over more), your glutes take up more and more of the pedaling load, to the point where your quads and glutes are sharing the load equally. Since the glute muscles are just as strong or stronger than your quads, this is a good thing if you want to generate more power.
The three chief disadvantages:
1) less comfort. This is as elementary as the point about aerodynamics. If you are interested in comfort over speed/power, then choose a higher bar position.
2) too low and your legs start running into your abdomen, even to the point of hitting your chest and affecting your breathing.
3) if you are so low that you need to lock your arms to touch your bars, then your bike handling as adversely affected.
The takeaway is that bar position is about riding style more than it is about "fit". A bike fitter wants to make sure your pedaling is efficient and you aren't wrenching your joints out of whack. That makes bike fitting more about saddle height than anything else. Racers and sport riders ride with low bar positions because they are concerned more about power generation and aerodynamics than comfort. Tourers are opposite; they care more about comfort than power generation or aerodynamics. Don't be afraid to experiment. The only caution is, if you aren't sure what you want, you may wait a bit before cutting the fork steering tube. Once that steering tube is cut short, the only way to lengthen it is to buy a new fork.
__________________
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"If you’re new enough [to racing] that you would ask such question, then i would hazard a guess that if you just made up a workout that sounded hard to do, and did it, you’d probably get faster." --the tiniest sprinter
07-11-13, 07:17 PM
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So many experts here.
Not all the pros like to ride with handlebar drops. Lance had a level set up. My bike is dead level and couldn't be more comfortable. I even have more power once we lowered my saddle and I sit rock solid on it now. Most guys rock back and forth if you look at them from the back.
Not all the pros like to ride with handlebar drops. Lance had a level set up. My bike is dead level and couldn't be more comfortable. I even have more power once we lowered my saddle and I sit rock solid on it now. Most guys rock back and forth if you look at them from the back.
07-11-13, 08:06 PM
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Nice bike! Did you see a big difference in performance when you changed to a lower position?
07-12-13, 05:16 AM
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The transition may be fine but having the hoods and bars rotated up like that isn't. The ends of the bars are not level, which would make using an aggressive position in the drops pretty dang uncomfortable on the wrists. I see people riding around with this configuration and usually its because they have no idea what they are doing and are just trying to achieve a higher riding position. No good fitter would consider that an appropriate bar angle. If anything the shifters could be moved higher on the hoods, or different bars and/or stem could be used to achieve the same height, but bar rotation isn't the way to achieve that.
As to overall fit, there is a parallel universe that is little understood. Fit challenges for short legged riders are the exact opposite of long legged riders like myself. Rivendell knows a lot more about fit than the average rider. If more rode with a higher handlebar, road bikes would be more popular. For many with lower bars, the drops are completely un-usable and why many prefer a hybrid with narrow tires. I ride a Roubaix to get closer to your position OP with my long legs. With your shorter legs, your CAAD 10 fits like a Roubaix endurance geometry for guys like me with long legs. As discussed, you have a lot of room to lower your handlebar. Over time as your cycling improves, experiment to find your best position. No fitter can place you in an optimized position. Only you will know what is best by testing all the margins of fit. For many but certainly not all, a handlebar close to saddle height makes a lot of sense, in particular for those that ride long distances like me.
Have fun.
Last edited by Campag4life; 07-12-13 at 05:20 AM.
07-12-13, 11:49 AM
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OP...there is a lot of bad information on the web about fit including all the advice like above that the handlebars are improperly rotated. Even a few top riders like Boonen rotate their handlebars up and have the hooks point at the rear axle. I ride in this position as well. The reason is simple. The hood position where you spend most of your time is more ergonomic...wrists are in more natural position on the hoods and pressure is more distributed to the web between thumb and forefinger...where it should be. See below illustration.
As to overall fit, there is a parallel universe that is little understood. Fit challenges for short legged riders are the exact opposite of long legged riders like myself. Rivendell knows a lot more about fit than the average rider. If more rode with a higher handlebar, road bikes would be more popular. For many with lower bars, the drops are completely un-usable and why many prefer a hybrid with narrow tires. I ride a Roubaix to get closer to your position OP with my long legs. With your shorter legs, your CAAD 10 fits like a Roubaix endurance geometry for guys like me with long legs. As discussed, you have a lot of room to lower your handlebar. Over time as your cycling improves, experiment to find your best position. No fitter can place you in an optimized position. Only you will know what is best by testing all the margins of fit. For many but certainly not all, a handlebar close to saddle height makes a lot of sense, in particular for those that ride long distances like me.
Have fun.
As to overall fit, there is a parallel universe that is little understood. Fit challenges for short legged riders are the exact opposite of long legged riders like myself. Rivendell knows a lot more about fit than the average rider. If more rode with a higher handlebar, road bikes would be more popular. For many with lower bars, the drops are completely un-usable and why many prefer a hybrid with narrow tires. I ride a Roubaix to get closer to your position OP with my long legs. With your shorter legs, your CAAD 10 fits like a Roubaix endurance geometry for guys like me with long legs. As discussed, you have a lot of room to lower your handlebar. Over time as your cycling improves, experiment to find your best position. No fitter can place you in an optimized position. Only you will know what is best by testing all the margins of fit. For many but certainly not all, a handlebar close to saddle height makes a lot of sense, in particular for those that ride long distances like me.
Have fun.
You'll also notice that boonen doesn't ride compact bars, mostly ergos or deep drops, and that he gets that angled up hood position by moving the shifters up much higher on the bars, which many of us suggested. You'll also see that what many of us were advocating in terms of flat hood position is closer to your second image than the first. Having the hoods positioned so low and then rotating the bars up especially on compact drops makes the most aggressive drop position even worse for your wrists, and will cause your wrists to hit the bottom of the bar transitions. But I guess do what you want, because the majority of people on road bikes use their drops less than 10% of the time, and many probably should be on hybrids. FWIW I did a 1 day STP with an aggressive drop and used the drops quite a bit and didn't have a single hand or wrist issue, but I guess my fitter had no idea what he was doing...
07-12-13, 02:21 PM
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Hi,
FWIW it sounds like the bike fit mainly involved the saddle position and height.
For a free 20 minute fit no-one is going unwrap the bar tape and move the brifters
on the bars and rewrap it, and as long as the stem is near the right length it is
impossible to say what is the "right" bar height.
I've converted to bullhorns so I really can't advise on bar rotation, though clearly
if the best on the hoods rotation is different to on the drops move the brifters.
The ratio of using the drops to the upper positions determines bar height for a lot.
With bull horns and no drops my bike is now set to minimum, but 3 months
ago I had the stem flipped up with 3 1cm rings below it. Still fine tuning
the bar angle as I ease (I'm 50+) into using the longest reach more.
rgds, sreten.
Whilst you can flip the stem, on many carbon fork bikes removing rings
below the stem involves a hacksaw and a no going back procedure.
Consequently a stem flip should match removing a ring ?
FWIW it sounds like the bike fit mainly involved the saddle position and height.
For a free 20 minute fit no-one is going unwrap the bar tape and move the brifters
on the bars and rewrap it, and as long as the stem is near the right length it is
impossible to say what is the "right" bar height.
I've converted to bullhorns so I really can't advise on bar rotation, though clearly
if the best on the hoods rotation is different to on the drops move the brifters.
The ratio of using the drops to the upper positions determines bar height for a lot.
With bull horns and no drops my bike is now set to minimum, but 3 months
ago I had the stem flipped up with 3 1cm rings below it. Still fine tuning
the bar angle as I ease (I'm 50+) into using the longest reach more.
rgds, sreten.
Whilst you can flip the stem, on many carbon fork bikes removing rings
below the stem involves a hacksaw and a no going back procedure.
Consequently a stem flip should match removing a ring ?
Last edited by sreten; 07-12-13 at 02:56 PM.
07-31-13, 12:24 PM
#64
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do you want this ...:
nor·mal
/ˈnôrməl/
[TABLE="class: vk_txt ts"]
[TR]
[TD]Adjective
[TABLE="class: ts"]
[TR]
[TD]Conforming to a standard; usual, typical, or expected.
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Noun
[TABLE="class: ts"]
[TR]
[TD]The usual, average, or typical state or condition.
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Synonyms
[TABLE="class: ts"]
[TR]
[TD]adjective.
[/TD]
[TD]regular - standard - ordinary - common - usual
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[TABLE="class: ts"]
[TR]
[TD]noun.
[/TD]
[TD]normality - normalcy - perpendicular
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
... or what's good for YOU?
nor·mal
/ˈnôrməl/
[TABLE="class: vk_txt ts"]
[TR]
[TD]Adjective
[TABLE="class: ts"]
[TR]
[TD]Conforming to a standard; usual, typical, or expected.
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Noun
[TABLE="class: ts"]
[TR]
[TD]The usual, average, or typical state or condition.
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Synonyms
[TABLE="class: ts"]
[TR]
[TD]adjective.
[/TD]
[TD]regular - standard - ordinary - common - usual
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[TABLE="class: ts"]
[TR]
[TD]noun.
[/TD]
[TD]normality - normalcy - perpendicular
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
... or what's good for YOU?
Forget about looks, set it up until your comfortable first and ride it. Then figure out what areas you're having pain or trouble with and seek advise from a good fitter. If you go for the professional fit right away without riding it at all, you will get what you get, a normal fit that may not be comfortable for YOU.
08-05-13, 07:17 PM
#65
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I think your bike fitter just wanted to sell you what they had in stock and not fit you properly by making poor adjustments. Fit looks totally wrong, but only you can say if the "feel" is right when you ride. Like you I have short arms and legs compared to my torso even though I'm 5.6". I too purchased a CAAD10 and was properly fitted from a 52cm down to a 50cm. The fitter replaced my stem with a shorter one and turned it upwards for a more comfortable reach of my arms and saved my lower back, the seat position is an inch higher than the handle bar, but that is based on my leg angle when your feet is at the bottom of the reach. The way your seat is angled downwards and such a short post looks rather painful if after a long ride, not to mention it might rob you of pedal power. Visually the frame looks to big on you if you had to make so many component adjustments that just looks awkward. You should feel more centered while peddling rather than have your weight forward on your arms/bars or back of your saddle.
08-05-13, 09:05 PM
#66
Banned
OP says
and,
so is what the fit Looks like, more important, or how it feels to the rider?
Call it the Competitive Cyclist shop's 'French Fit' , if it makes you feel better about it.
I have *short* legs w/ *long* torso.
If I go with a smaller frame, to get that pro-looking huge seatpost... I would need to get a *huge* stem ...
Call it the Competitive Cyclist shop's 'French Fit' , if it makes you feel better about it.
Last edited by fietsbob; 08-05-13 at 09:09 PM.
