Aluminum Alignment Table
#1
Kim Woodward
Thread Starter
Aluminum Alignment Table
I’ve been reading a lot of threads regarding alignment tables / surface plates. I’ve been wondering about the Wolverine Bronze aluminum table that Doug Fattic mentions. Has anyone recently ordered one? (Some of the posts I’ve been seeing are almost ten years old.) at the price / weight it might be a great solution foe me.
Does anyone have other solutions for someone located in California and willing to drive a fair distance to get a table.
Thanks,
Kim
Does anyone have other solutions for someone located in California and willing to drive a fair distance to get a table.
Thanks,
Kim
#2
framebuilder
I was just having a conversation with one of my former frame building class students and when he recently checked on Wolverine Bronze pricing they said a 34" X 48" cast aluminum top would run about $1500. It is ribbed underneath. The 4 legs would be an additional $400 bringing the total price to $1900. Of course then you have to get a post made. My machinist charged me around $300.
I consider my WB table to be one of the best purchases I made. I bought it as an experiment for my students that have not yet found a permanent shop home. The top weighs about 175 lbs and is easy enough to move. The legs are removable. They cast one of the pads underneath to be a little bigger so it included the hole where the post would be attached. I do prefer my 3' X 4' cast iron table because I can use magnets to hold accessories but it is extremely heavy and must weigh well over 1000 pounds. And now you have to be lucky to find one somewhere. I don't get any change in alignment measurement if I check the same frame on either one.
Of course a granite surface plate is much cheaper but then you have the problem that they are much, much heavier. When I talked to Wolverine Bronze a couple of years ago they said these tables are not nearly as popular in the car industry as they used to be because people are using a poured epoxy instead. One of my students actually made an alignment table out of MDF board and then poured this special epoxy that costs over $100 a gallon to form the top. Besides him I don't know any frame builders that have tried this method now commonly used in industry. It probably is a great way to make a table for a hobbyist but I don't have any personal experience to share.
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granite is great stuff, but having a slab big enough is like a weight tied around your neck for the amount of time that you own it. I want to move mine into the basement, but getting it there is a real issue. And it's not as big as I want it. OTOH, people will give them to you if you can move it. Someone offered me a 3'x4'x1' slab. Haha, that thing weighs 5000lb. I would have loved to have it, no doubt
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Since you are in Sacramento, you can find remnant precision ground surface plate at Blue Collar Supply on occasion. I stalked them for a while for a piece big enough for a frame but ended up finding a suitable piece of granite.
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metlaworking machine tables show up by themselves sometimes. That's not a great way to check alignment, but it works
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I use a steel cast 2'x3' plate, ribbed and has a 3 feet contact with the bench It's mounted on. I consider this to be the "working" minimum size with a 3'x4' allowing the complete frame to fit. Once was a time when any mid sized. or larger, city had a used machine tool dealer. Now even in the rust belt these dealers are drying up. I do frequently dream of up grading from my 2x3 so I surf eBay and Craigs List. Suitable surface plates come up a couple/three times a year lately.
Doug makes a good point about tooling. A solid BB post of a good working height isn't an off the shelf item. Much of the rest of the tooling can be self made or found in local garage sales/craigs list (here in the North East). But tooling will run a few hundred $ or more pretty quickly. I've played with the WB plate/table that Doug likes and admit it is pretty nice, not the least is it's portability. A strong 1 person could move it with some care. A tool one will keep for a long time. Andy (who really needs to get a larger plate, these new BB standards are getting too big!)
Doug makes a good point about tooling. A solid BB post of a good working height isn't an off the shelf item. Much of the rest of the tooling can be self made or found in local garage sales/craigs list (here in the North East). But tooling will run a few hundred $ or more pretty quickly. I've played with the WB plate/table that Doug likes and admit it is pretty nice, not the least is it's portability. A strong 1 person could move it with some care. A tool one will keep for a long time. Andy (who really needs to get a larger plate, these new BB standards are getting too big!)
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AndrewRStewart
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#7
Kim Woodward
Thread Starter
I was just having a conversation with one of my former frame building class students and when he recently checked on Wolverine Bronze pricing they said a 34" X 48" cast aluminum top would run about $1500. It is ribbed underneath. The 4 legs would be an additional $400 bringing the total price to $1900. Of course then you have to get a post made. My machinist charged me around $300.
I consider my WB table to be one of the best purchases I made. I bought it as an experiment for my students that have not yet found a permanent shop home. The top weighs about 175 lbs and is easy enough to move. The legs are removable. They cast one of the pads underneath to be a little bigger so it included the hole where the post would be attached. I do prefer my 3' X 4' cast iron table because I can use magnets to hold accessories but it is extremely heavy and must weigh well over 1000 pounds. And now you have to be lucky to find one somewhere. I don't get any change in alignment measurement if I check the same frame on either one.
Of course a granite surface plate is much cheaper but then you have the problem that they are much, much heavier. When I talked to Wolverine Bronze a couple of years ago they said these tables are not nearly as popular in the car industry as they used to be because people are using a poured epoxy instead. One of my students actually made an alignment table out of MDF board and then poured this special epoxy that costs over $100 a gallon to form the top. Besides him I don't know any frame builders that have tried this method now commonly used in industry. It probably is a great way to make a table for a hobbyist but I don't have any personal experience to share.
I consider my WB table to be one of the best purchases I made. I bought it as an experiment for my students that have not yet found a permanent shop home. The top weighs about 175 lbs and is easy enough to move. The legs are removable. They cast one of the pads underneath to be a little bigger so it included the hole where the post would be attached. I do prefer my 3' X 4' cast iron table because I can use magnets to hold accessories but it is extremely heavy and must weigh well over 1000 pounds. And now you have to be lucky to find one somewhere. I don't get any change in alignment measurement if I check the same frame on either one.
Of course a granite surface plate is much cheaper but then you have the problem that they are much, much heavier. When I talked to Wolverine Bronze a couple of years ago they said these tables are not nearly as popular in the car industry as they used to be because people are using a poured epoxy instead. One of my students actually made an alignment table out of MDF board and then poured this special epoxy that costs over $100 a gallon to form the top. Besides him I don't know any frame builders that have tried this method now commonly used in industry. It probably is a great way to make a table for a hobbyist but I don't have any personal experience to share.
#8
Kim Woodward
Thread Starter
I use a steel cast 2'x3' plate, ribbed and has a 3 feet contact with the bench It's mounted on. I consider this to be the "working" minimum size with a 3'x4' allowing the complete frame to fit. Once was a time when any mid sized. or larger, city had a used machine tool dealer. Now even in the rust belt these dealers are drying up. I do frequently dream of up grading from my 2x3 so I surf eBay and Craigs List. Suitable surface plates come up a couple/three times a year lately.
Doug makes a good point about tooling. A solid BB post of a good working height isn't an off the shelf item. Much of the rest of the tooling can be self made or found in local garage sales/craigs list (here in the North East). But tooling will run a few hundred $ or more pretty quickly. I've played with the WB plate/table that Doug likes and admit it is pretty nice, not the least is it's portability. A strong 1 person could move it with some care. A tool one will keep for a long time. Andy (who really needs to get a larger plate, these new BB standards are getting too big!)
Doug makes a good point about tooling. A solid BB post of a good working height isn't an off the shelf item. Much of the rest of the tooling can be self made or found in local garage sales/craigs list (here in the North East). But tooling will run a few hundred $ or more pretty quickly. I've played with the WB plate/table that Doug likes and admit it is pretty nice, not the least is it's portability. A strong 1 person could move it with some care. A tool one will keep for a long time. Andy (who really needs to get a larger plate, these new BB standards are getting too big!)
#9
Kim Woodward
Thread Starter
Thanks for chiming in. I haven't looked at Blue Collar for that specifically. I would guess that if you found something there it would be an off-size but that could work. I'll keep an eye peeled next time I'm in there. Thanks for responding.
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If you need to use something in the mean time. You can use my granite setup. Its not perfect but works pretty well. Always happy to meet another local builder.
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I'm not one for fawning over bicycles, but I do believe that our bikes communicate with us, and what this bike is saying is, "You're an idiot." BikeSnobNYC
I'm not one for fawning over bicycles, but I do believe that our bikes communicate with us, and what this bike is saying is, "You're an idiot." BikeSnobNYC
#11
Newbie
A few years ago I looked into a 3/4" 3x4' cast mic6 aluminum plate. I was going to build a table for it and got a quote from TCI Aluminum in Hayward, CA. They quoted me $492 for the plate which seemed like a great deal. I subsequently found a 3x4' granite surface plate for less, so I never went through with it but it might be an option.
#12
Kim Woodward
Thread Starter
#13
Kim Woodward
Thread Starter
A few years ago I looked into a 3/4" 3x4' cast mic6 aluminum plate. I was going to build a table for it and got a quote from TCI Aluminum in Hayward, CA. They quoted me $492 for the plate which seemed like a great deal. I subsequently found a 3x4' granite surface plate for less, so I never went through with it but it might be an option.
#14
Senior Member
I'm pretty much in the same boat. I have an alignment table that I can make work, however it's crude and time consuming. I'd love to have something much better. I've been looking at the Bringheli table and in fact emailed them a while ago and heard nothing back. I think the Wolverine table looks great as well. I'm in Central CA and there isn't much where I am at all, and I've been searching for a while. I'll be following this thread.
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Regarding Joe Bringelli. I live about 45 minutes away and I was trying to contact him. Finally heard back from his daughter. Joe is apparently having some health issues.
#16
Kim Woodward
Thread Starter
I'm pretty much in the same boat. I have an alignment table that I can make work, however it's crude and time consuming. I'd love to have something much better. I've been looking at the Bringheli table and in fact emailed them a while ago and heard nothing back. I think the Wolverine table looks great as well. I'm in Central CA and there isn't much where I am at all, and I've been searching for a while. I'll be following this thread.
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Regarding alignment tables, mine is sort of a joke but does work. I bought a thick slab of steel (approx. 1.5" x 18" x 36") and had it blanchard ground flat, then I whittled out a post on my lathe. It requires rotating the frame during the build somewhat but I get buy. Total investment was relatively cheap. I'm not recommending this setup just providing a data point for those that don't want to spend a bunch of money.
#18
framebuilder
I’m going to pull the trigger on the a Wolverine next week. I don’t know if it would help at all, but we could order two and perhaps split the shipping. The quote I got from UPS Freight is about 550 (although that is only generated from the website and who knows what the actual will be). I just really like the idea of the bigger surface and the portability of this table. it would mean a drive for one of us but it might help the cost a little.
The reason to know where they will drill the posthole is to make sure the underneath pad surrounds and supports the hole. They will drill the hole for you if you ask. Mine is just off center and they extended the casting of the pad so the hole went through the pad and wasn’t on a rib or in a valley. My posthole is 660mm (about 26”) from the left edge and 80mm up from the bottom edge. I align a frame with the head tube left so the drive side of the BB is down. My hole is 1” but if I was doing it again I would make it ½” My post extends through the pad and accepts a nut on the other side to attach it to the table. I did it that way because my cast iron table from England was done that way. Now I would use a ½” bolt (or a M12) starting from the underside and attaching it to a threaded hole in the post.
Mine was painted blue but one of my student’s got his in yellow.
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I built a frame jig "on the cheap" by buying an aluminum slab about 3 foot square from a local metal work place. I used it as a base to mount various home-made tube holders & clamps.
Perhaps bigger pieces are available as a cheaper alternative ?
Perhaps bigger pieces are available as a cheaper alternative ?
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#20
Senior Member
I’m going to pull the trigger on the a Wolverine next week. I don’t know if it would help at all, but we could order two and perhaps split the shipping. The quote I got from UPS Freight is about 550 (although that is only generated from the website and who knows what the actual will be). I just really like the idea of the bigger surface and the portability of this table. it would mean a drive for one of us but it might help the cost a little.
#21
Kim Woodward
Thread Starter
Cold setting with an aluminum table?
I’m curious if anyone has thoughts on this. It seems like this might be a drawback, but I don’t know if the force placed on the frame and transferred to the fixtures would damage the aluminum surface. If you have an aluminum alignment table are you taking measurements there and then removing the frame to make adjustments?
Thanks
I’m curious if anyone has thoughts on this. It seems like this might be a drawback, but I don’t know if the force placed on the frame and transferred to the fixtures would damage the aluminum surface. If you have an aluminum alignment table are you taking measurements there and then removing the frame to make adjustments?
Thanks
#22
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you aren't going to bend an aluminum table. I have worried a little about my granite table, the available inserts for the posts are pretty close to the edge
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