1989Pre 

Just by policy, I try to stay out of motor traffic lanes. Go ahead and pretend you are "part of traffic". What a joke.
I'll bet you're still trying to get clipped in when the driver behind you sees the green, goes, and has to slam on the brakes to "give you a moment". Then, they all proceed around the corner at 5mph, behind you.

noisebeam

The only motor traffic lanes I am aware of are on limited access freeways which don't have traffic lights.

Doohickie

That's some imagination you got there. Nice strawman.

Doohickie

Urban riding.... no problem.

rumrunn6

so many variables, but you reminded me of this intersection near me. when going straight I continue until the light turns red. cars are continually passing me. it wouldn't make sense to stop anywhere else but the stop line at the head of the line & place 1 foot on the curb. (red arrow) when the light turns green, I wait for the lead car to start, then I start. makes no sense to start first cuz they'll be passing me immediately anyway. sometimes, I'll look back & if there are only 3 cars, I'll wait until they all pass me before I start.

if I were going left, I would have to get in that left only lane. (blue arrow) if I was first, I would take that lane at the front, then while crossing the intersection move right to let following cars pass. if there were cars in front of me, I would not filter up, I don't think, but not sure cuz I never got left here

WNCGoater

Yeah I'm generally in agreement with that. On the right, if I were in the front, like you I would probably be on the right, allowing the lead car to pull up beside me. When the light changed, I would proceed through keeping toward the right and most of the cars would pass as we proceeded through the intersection. If a car was already there, I would pull up directly behind it. As we proceeded forward I would likely move to the right allowing any cars behind me to pass.
But there is a qualifier there in that any right turns would be made before the stop light. I would maybe handle if differently if they were turning right up at the head of the line.
Left turn I would handle as you stated.

And all that is particular to this intersection. Each intersection is different so I approach things according to the intersection, traffic, etc. I try to handle any intersection in a way for motorists to accurately understand my intentions and at the same time, being respectful of them and moving right asap.

WNCGoater

If I stayed out of motor traffic lanes, I wouldn't be able to ride, not a road bike anyway. We have no bike lanes here. Heck, rare is the road that even has a shoulder here.

You have to take a moment to get clipped in? Keep one foot clipped and when the light changes start pedaling. Clip in at some point. You can't pedal without both feet clipped in? Not sure how you clip in both feet before proceeding.

In NC you ARE classified as a vehicle and thus by default, you ARE a part of traffic and subject to all the same laws. No pretending about it & not a joke.

Riding on the road, in traffic, through intersections...all takes a willingness to give and take, some attentiveness, some courtesy, and a lot of common sense. YMMV

jefnvk

Actually, cars hold me up off a green light most times. It isn't til they get past the 13ish MPH or so range that their acceleration outpaces me. WRT to clips, if I don't think I can clip in quick enough, I either pull my pedal back and use the flat side until I can, or jut place the clip under the arch of my foot, once again until I can clip in. 98% of the time, though, it naturally happens when my foot starts the first downstroke, and I've only been using the things for two months now.

The joke would be me following some roundabout path on sidewalks to avoid using the left turn lane.

noisebeam

I would drive approx on top of the "Parker St.' imposed lettering so as to reduce right hook. Whether I allow vehicle adjacent to me when traveling thru would depend on road condition after the intersection as well as opportunity to proactively prevent right turns which would not be expected due to earlier right merge. Neither of these can be known until one has experience with intersection so I'd line up at first until I learned the patterns & conditions.

mr_bill

Well, I have ridden through that intersection, and I've gone straight, right and left there.

FWIW, it's fantasy to think that your lane position will reduce a right hook there. If you ride on "Parker St." when (not if) you hear a car going over the cobbles it means that they are turning left or going straight or turning right. My first job in MA.

-mr. bill

noisebeam

i know it will reduce based on experience with hundreds of similar intersections. it would be foolish to drive far right, perhaps a foot off the fog line, approaching that right merge. in these cases motorist will slow behind me and turn right, alternately they can swing wide to the left first over the cobble, but then i merge behind them and pass on their left as they turn. i also would not wait until i hear tire on cobble, but would have seen the conditions behind me long before that and communicate to other drivers when it helps.
i know you disagree and can suggest the audacity of me suggesting otherwise to someone who had actually driven thru this specific place, but this intersection design is quite common as are motorist behaviors.

mr_bill

Have you ever ridden a bicycle in Massachusetts?
The only predictable motorist behavior we have is unpredictable behavior.

There is no such thing as "allow."

(BTW, what is the hand signal for I'm going straight?)


But there actually is a lane position that will reduce the right hook - salmon. Won't recommend it.

-mr. bill

noisebeam

I have cycled thousands of miles in MA. I grew up there and was in HS cycling club.

mr_bill

So you should know that a right turning car driver would never have another car driver going straight to the right, unless they are driving in Massachusetts and making a right turn from the left hand lane.

I almost got right hooked the other day. I was driving a car. My lane position - THE LANE!

-mr. bill

ItsJustMe

Yikes, holy ****, that sounds crazy dangerous. Get in the turn lane if you're turning.

Skipjacks

Your bike is a vehicle on the road. You should be in line behind the lead car, not next to it.

If you were driving a car you wouldn't be next to the lead car. So you shouldn't be on a bike. That's a good general rule. If you wouldn't do it in a car, you shouldn't do it on a bike. (Applies to traffic rules only, like running red lights and bumping pedestrians)

I do this exact scenario when I commute. It's scary as hell every time. I make a left turn onto a busy road. I don't actually ride on the busy road. I bail out at the end of the left turn onto a multi purpose path to the right of the street. But while making that left I'm in the middle of the lane waiting for green like every other car.

I also find that I can accelerate faster than the cars do. (Not faster than the cars CAN. Faster than they DO. Drivers act like grandmas when a light turns green) So while I can't keep pace with 40 mph traffic on the road I'm turning onto, I can stay at speed with the cars after the green light long enough to get through the intersection and onto the much safer path.

noisebeam

Another tip: When stopping behind the vehicle in front of you leave a bike length or more between which allows you to start rolling and clip in before traffic gets moving much.

CliffordK

For me, each intersection is a little different. And, I suppose it depends on my mood.

Basic Left turn into a right side bike path:
Short duration Left Turn Signals (Low traffic):
Left turn onto a center strip (left hand) bike lane:Left turn lane, mostly T intersection with a minimal business road going straight:Basic Square Turn:

work4bike

I always take the lane, directly in the center, not just when in a turning lane, regardless if right or left, but also when at any stop - I do this so I'm clear of cars turning.

I have no problem being in the front, because I'm so much faster than cars starting off, but I don't automatically go to the front, I just take my natural position in the line. Stay in the lane until the car in front starts gaining distance, but always be ready for the car(s) in front to make a 90-degree turn into a driveway (i.e. a gas station or whatever...), that's why you want to be in the center lane, so you can prevent a Righthook and that the driver in front of you can see that you are clear, so he can turn.

As someone already said, a lot of drivers are not use to seeing this, because we are a minority on the roads and many of the cyclists out there don't follow rules of the roads, but the cycling laws support doing this 100%.

noisebeam

Same for me except I am more left biased in lane. The purple text describes a great benefit as it prevents the confusions and hesitations that raise tension and slow everyone down.

bbbean 

Why wouldn't you simply take the left turn lane like any other vehicle operator?

noisebeam

A video I made ~10yr ago which may show the two versions of left turn: The OP-type and using the LTOL lane.
Note the cyclist who turned left from the right got ahead, but this was as the left turning vehicles were waiting for a pedestrian to cross. The lead driver could have turned quickly as the ped hadn't reached centerline yet, but they were appropriately polite/safe and waited.

mr_bill

The other common variation is the Copenhagen Left, and I know this causes all kinds of agita for some.
Continue straight the intersection in the rightmost thru lane, and then queue up in FRONT of all the queue of cars on the intersecting road.

It can not only be faster than a left turn only lane, it can also be safer.

Example, a particular intersection with a Left Turn/U-Turn lane with a sensor that will NEVER be triggered by a person on a bicycle, and where very few cars/taxis/ubers/lyfts are likely to make the left turn to the hotel.

At rush hours "any other vehicle operator" have mostly self-corked the intersection because of bridge construction nearby. There is no way to safely "dead-red" the intersection during these times, but we don't have the dead-red law - yet - anyway. It is currently making it's way through the legislature though, it's an "omnibus" road safety bill that may or may not make it through this year.

(Yes, the sensor problem has been reported. Yes, it's scheduled to be fixed at the next major reconstruction of the road. That reconstruction is not in the current five year plan.)

What would YOU do?

-mr. bill

1989Pre 

This standard approach in the right lane is what I try to duplicate when and if there is a "left turn only" lane and I wish to take the left: 1.) Stay to the right of lead car 2.) Proceed
Since I keep my maneuver slow, steady and even, I almost never hear a toot from a horn. This was the first time.
The only time I feel any concern when turning beside the lead car is when the opposite direction is also getting their "left turn only" green arrow. Then, I have to squeeze between these opposing, curving channels. Even then, it is no real problem.
I do not consider cuing with cars to be advisable, either from a practical standpoint or in regards to manners. Motorists are still unused to seeing bicycles in their lane, and could be confused about it. It seems to me that there should be little fluidity or flexibility in regards to traffic laws: Develop a system and stick with it, so that everybody knows what to expect. Any driver who suspects that I may dart crazily in front of them during the left turn will be reassured once they see how smoothly it is going.

bbbean 

I will always take the appropriate (LTO) lane, unless there is a compelling reason to do otherwise. In the example you gave, maybe there is a compelling reason, I don't know. I'd have to be in that same situation to make the call.