themalletor

I know this is a long shot, but does anyone have a bergstorm 110 to 144 adapter theyd be willing to sell? recently bought a quarq for my track bike and I've been using the bdop adapter with it but it doesnt correct for chain line.

Hopefully someone has one they arent using!

luucanthony

So my boss at the shop just dug up an older low flange record pista rear wheel that he sold to me for $40
The wheel is incredible considering they look to be from an older vintage. My only concern now is the cog thread pitch. Does anyone know if it's a campy specific cog thread? I know the lockring is Italian specific.
Thanks!

TejanoTrackie 

The cog threading on old Italian track hubs is 35mm x 24 TPI, which is 1.378" x 24 TPI. The typical modern English threaded track cog is 1.370" x 24 TPI. So, the thread pitch is the same, but the diameter is slightly larger, which will make for a tight fit. You are probably OK to do this without the risk of serious damage to the hub threads, but make sure to use anti-seize compound on the threads.

luucanthony

Thanks for the answer! I just swapped to another cog and everything went smooth.

thearthurdog

Strange. I use that exact set up and my chainline is perfect?

MarkWW

The bergstrom adapter is just a flat plate it doesn't do anything special for chainline.

JuiceWillis

I'm currently running 48x14, I've done 2 Omnium events (Cat5) and finished 2nd and 3rd overall, and have won 2 scratch races in fields of 15-20. I have topped out at 130rpms running this ratio, so I know I need to get my spin faster. My question is...i have a 49t and was wondering if it's worth it to try out a 49x14, or to just work on spinning faster first. For what it's worth, the track I race on is a 400m track.

queerpunk

By all means, experiment with the 49. But:

Hitting 130rpm in a 92.5" gear (48x14) is some respectable speed for a Cat 5. 130rpm is a completely respectable sprint cadence. You might not have the power to get 10 more RPM out. And - you're winning races! Why change?

Don't underestimate the difference 1 tooth in the front can make - but don't overestimate it, either.

Personally, I don't think I used anything bigger than a 92" until I became a Cat 2. As a Cat 1 I've won plenty of races on a little old 92.5" gear.

JuiceWillis

That's what I was thinking as well...why change? I have a race tonight so I'll run the 48x14 as I don't really want to tinker with my set up the day of the race. I come from a road sprinting background so hitting high rpms to sprint is definitely new to me. One more quick question on race strategy and scoring: in a points race I understand that if you lap the field you score 20 points. Does anyone just attack from the gun in order to get the 20 and not worry about the actual finish?

Not the Slowest

I suggest sticking with what you are using and spin spin spin. You will soon be upgraded to Cat 4 and things may change in competition quality. As stated it's good to test out different gearing based on the event. However going BIGGER will not always results in better efforts as you may not be able on top of the gear fast enough. Sounds like what you have is working. Train more and you'll discover you may be fine with the 48 x 14. Oh yeah, talk to the racers who have raced there for years and see what they use and their style. Each track differs a bit.

queerpunk

The more time you spend on a track, the more you'll find need to change the "don't want to tinker with my setup on the day of the race" attitude. I change gears a few times in warmup, and between each race.

points race - yes, sometimes people attack from the gun to get those 20 points. they probably still have to pay attention to the finish though: now, points races have double points for the final sprint, so somebody who's taken an early lap and still wants to place still might need to keep an eye on whether they need to score more points - if they're able.

Laps tend to go in one of two situations: by brute force after racing has been pretty hard for a while, or by indifference by the field. Sometimes, that initial move is met with indifference. Points races, like madisons, are won in the second half, not the first half.

queerpunk

i think that either it does or it doesn't needs to. it sits on the inside and the 144 ring mounts to the outside of it, so it mounts the chainring in a good spot - further inboard than an outer ring would sit, and further outboard than the inner ring would sit. i recall bergstrom talking about it sitting at 42.5mm for proper chainline.

MarkWW

Exactly. Chainline on a double crank is measured to the middle of the spider, so if you set a chainring in the middle of a typical road double, you would in theory be sitting at 43.5mm chainline. However, this doesn't take into account chainring thickness, so you're closer to ~44mm.

Long story short, it's a flat plate, no different - but much more expensive - than the bdop adapter. And the counterbores are too big for serrated track nuts to bite in.

Long story even shorter: I think it's a massive rip-off, but I'll gladly sell mine to whoever wants one.

carleton

Maybe not focus on max cadence. Maybe focus on "max sustainable" cadence. This is like the difference between max power and 5 or 10s power. The latter is a more effective measure of progress.

Also, your effective cadence ranges for mass start racing is holding 110 up to 130rpm for sustained periods, e.g. holding 130rpm as you take a lap in a race. This means that your peak will maybe touch 135rpm.

Cat 5 races on the track are just like Cat 5 races on the road. It's a mixed bag of talent and fitness. It's mostly useful for learning rules and etiquette.

A lot of roadies come in with a "one gear for all (including warmup)" mentality. But, there are some very good reasons why you should change gears frequently in a training session or race night. Learn to be comfortable changing them fairly with confidence.

You are a new track racer. Experimentation will benefit you a lot.

JuiceWillis

Carleton, in between races, how does a 48x16-17 for keeping the legs moving and warmup? I have cogs ranging from 14-17 and the before mentioned 48,49t chainrings.

Not the Slowest

I"m not so sure on a 400m track you would lap the field. It may happen but the odds are much better on on longer races with shorter tracks.

carleton

Generally, people will change gears like this on a race night:

- Warmup gear
- Gear that is appropriate for race 1
- Gear that is appropriate for race 2 (optional)
- Gear that is appropriate for race 3 (optional)
- Gear that is appropriate for race 4 (optional)
- Warmup gear to cool down. Leave it on the bike as you will use it 1st during your next training or race session.

Those are optional because it depends on you. Painting with broad strokes here, people usually put on bigger gears for shorter races and smaller gears for longer races and whatever the hell for time trials So it really depends on the mix of you, your fitness, the schedule of events, and your intention (over-gear, under-gear training). All local races are considered to be "training races". "real" races are the ones that award medals, jerseys, and/or cash

Read here for gear tips for beginners as a starting point: https://www.bikeforums.net/track-cyc...ack-racer.html

queerpunk

I've seen it done in many races on more than one 400m. I raced many seasons on 250s and surprisingly, lap-taking just wasn't all that common.

Yes, a lap on a 250 is 150m shorter than on a 400, but there are more important determinants of lap-taking than lap distance.

Not the Slowest

I would agree if the points races were more than 9 laps. At my 400(Kissena) weeknight CAT 5 point-a-lap go about 6 laps and Points race go 9 laps MAX. The 1/2/3's go a few longer. Of course as days get longer we may bump that up, but darkness rules.

Divebrian

Sorry, but that's not a real point race. I mean it is a points race, but not in the sense of the general points race. Most points races are run with a short distance of 35 laps up to 60 or more laps, with points every 5th lap. On a 400 track, I would think the shorter distance may be cut down to 25 laps, but still having points awarded every 5th lap with double points for the final sprint. What your describing sounds more like a training exercise, not that there's anything wrong with that. At our track, on training nights we would do something like your talking about, but they called them snow balls. We did them for 10 laps, only 1st across the line got points and it was 1 point on lap 1, 2 points on lap 2, 3 points on lap 3 ending with 10 points on lap 10.

Not the Slowest

That is exactly my point here.

carleton

Maybe it's easier to talk in meters, like "50KM points race" as opposed to laps?

Not the Slowest

Noted.

topflightpro

I recently bought the Zipp bolt-on track skewer to run my front 404. When I put it on today, I noticed that the skewer sticks about a 1/4 inch past the end of the nut. Is this OK?

700wheel

Check with the track managers where you ride.

Some tracks do not allow the thread spindle to extend beyond the nut (e.g. Manchester Track bike specification - National Cycling Centre )