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An e-bike is going to happen eventually

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An e-bike is going to happen eventually

Old 07-04-19, 01:13 PM
  #126  
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Originally Posted by event horizon View Post
Don't say I didn't warn you.This is the result of tying yourself into knots trying to defend electric motor bicycles.

First, you make a doltish assumption (above, that I haven't ridden an eCrutch). Then, when you are shown to be mistaken, you reverse course and reply, again, to my post with this fanciful ranty tangent making more assumptions and knocking down all kinds of straw men.

It's not a good look for you at all.

p.s. to be perfectly clear, I never claimed, nor do I believe, that "batteries become evil on a bicycle" - that nonsense is just a manifestation of your deep-seated insecurities. Insecurities that are the result of your affection for electric motor bicycles.
More hypocrisy, an endless flow lol. So blind you dig a deeper hole every time you post. Again, keep using technology to whine about technology.

Time for another dupe account.
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Old 07-04-19, 02:05 PM
  #127  
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Originally Posted by big john View Post
You forgot the third experiment, start climbing a brutally steep hill alongside a fit runner. The runner, who doesn't have the added burden of a bicycle, will go ahead.
And I think you and many others are TOTALY ignoring the obvious, Like I and radroad said...
"Now, try a second experiment with a standard bike. Measure your watts vs speed while walking or running and then measure power output vs speed on a regular bicycle. You'll be much, much faster on a bicycle with the same power output." Except I also compared single speed versus a 27 speed.
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Old 07-04-19, 02:52 PM
  #128  
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Originally Posted by event horizon View Post
You're confusing stating facts, and being amused by your contortions, with whining. And you continue to grasp at straw man arguments. Still not a good look for you at all.

An eBike is to cycling as escalators are to walking. Same for slidewalks.
False. Not a single established bicycle brand offers an ebike with a throttle.

Keep using tech to criticize tech! #oblivious #hypocrite #usingtechtocriticizetech
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Old 07-04-19, 02:59 PM
  #129  
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Originally Posted by event horizon View Post
You're confusing stating facts, and being amused by your contortions, with whining. And you continue to grasp at straw man arguments. Still not a good look for you at all.

An eBike is to cycling as escalators are to walking. Same for slidewalks.
#brokenrecord #dupeaccount #neverridenanebike
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Old 07-04-19, 04:13 PM
  #130  
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Originally Posted by 350htrr View Post
And I think you and many others are TOTALY ignoring the obvious, Like I and radroad said...
"Now, try a second experiment with a standard bike. Measure your watts vs speed while walking or running and then measure power output vs speed on a regular bicycle. You'll be much, much faster on a bicycle with the same power output." Except I also compared single speed versus a 27 speed.
Let me just say that I am not a "naysayer" and I have nothing against e-assist or e-whatever as long as the rider is not a menace to others. Some of the analogies used here are dubious, however.

I have a friend who rides a fixed gear everywhere, 500 mile endurance races, Paris-Brest-Paris twice, etc. On the rare occasion he does jump on his geared bike, he isn't a lot faster, except downhill. He probably would be if he spent more time on the geared bike, though.

If you think about it, it takes a certain number of watts to move a bike/rider up a given grade at a certain speed. It doesn't matter how many gears one has to choose from, it still takes the same number of watts. So, provided the single speed or fixed bike is in the right ratio for that rider at that time, it wouldn't be faster or easier to have more gears.

Obviously, riding distance over varying terrain would be easier for most of us if we had a lot of ratios to choose from. I just think comparing e-stuff to human powered stuff to running is more complex than some have suggested.
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Old 07-04-19, 04:55 PM
  #131  
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They hypocrisy is crazy: people who haven't even ridden e-bikes critiquing e-bikes when they have no idea what they're talking about.

Hypocrites using the internet, computers and electricity, (all forms of technology which make life easier) to criticize e-bikes because they make life easier.

Hypocrites who ride bikes, which travel 7x faster on flat terrain and 20x faster downhill compared to walking, criticizing e bikes because they travel 2 mph faster than a bike without motor assist.

Hypocrites who criticize e-bikes because they are faster yet ride road bikes because they are faster than hybrids and mountain bikes.

Hypocrites who call ONE form of tech evil when they use EVERY OTHER FORM OF TECH ON THE PLANET.

Ignoramuses who claim e-bikes are mopeds when NOT A SINGLE ESTABLISHED BICYCLE MANUFACTURER PRODUCES AN E-BIKE WITH A THROTTLE.
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Old 07-04-19, 05:00 PM
  #132  
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Originally Posted by big john View Post
Let me just say that I am not a "naysayer" and I have nothing against e-assist or e-whatever as long as the rider is not a menace to others. Some of the analogies used here are dubious, however.

I have a friend who rides a fixed gear everywhere, 500 mile endurance races, Paris-Brest-Paris twice, etc. On the rare occasion he does jump on his geared bike, he isn't a lot faster, except downhill. He probably would be if he spent more time on the geared bike, though.

If you think about it, it takes a certain number of watts to move a bike/rider up a given grade at a certain speed. It doesn't matter how many gears one has to choose from, it still takes the same number of watts. So, provided the single speed or fixed bike is in the right ratio for that rider at that time, it wouldn't be faster or easier to have more gears.

Obviously, riding distance over varying terrain would be easier for most of us if we had a lot of ratios to choose from. I just think comparing e-stuff to human powered stuff to running is more complex than some have suggested.
This type of hair splitting is pointless. Bicycles, whether geared, fixed geared, or with a motor, are all forms of tech that allow us to travel farther and faster with significantly less effort.

It's all "cheating" compared to walking. And no one criticizes walkers or runners who purchase and use more comfortable and/or lighter shoes for more speed and/or comfort. Or shoe manufacturers producing lighter, more comfortable and/or more durable shoes.

Therefore, anyone walking or running in shoes is "cheating" because they use evil technology called shoes.

These criticisms of e-bikes are utterly hypocritical and pointless. We ALL use tech for greater convenience and arguably, higher quality of life.

If you don't like E-bikes, STOP USING ALL FORMS OF TECHNOLOGY, including the computer, electricity, the internet, smartphones, wi-fi etc. which allow for your illogical, contradictory, hypocritical and self-defeating trolling.

You guys should give up houses, apartments, walls, hammers, nails, metal, etc. as well. And give up supermarkets so you can hunt your own food. And don't use guns or spears; use your own bare frikkin hands to kill animals to get your protein. After all, e-bikes teach everyone that humans using their brains to create technology to make life easier is inherently evil. Stupid is, as stupid does.
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Old 07-04-19, 05:05 PM
  #133  
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Originally Posted by Classtime View Post
You don't need to ride a motorized bike to know that it will require less effort to make it go.
But you do need to ride an e-bike to understand why it's the only sector of the bike market with explosive sales growth. It's because they are much more fun to ride than a bike without a motor.
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Old 07-04-19, 05:06 PM
  #134  
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Originally Posted by radroad View Post
This type of hair splitting is pointless. Bicycles, whether geared, fixed geared, or with a motor, are all forms of tech that allow us to travel farther and faster with significantly less effort.

It's all "cheating" compared to walking. And no one criticizes walkers or runners who purchase and use more comfortable and/or lighter shoes for more speed and/or comfort. Or shoe manufacturers producing lighter, more comfortable and/or more durable shoes.

Therefore, anyone walking or running in shoes is "cheating" because they use evil technology called shoes.

These criticisms of e-bikes are utterly hypocritical and pointless. We ALL use tech for greater convenience and arguably, higher quality of life.

If you don't like E-bikes, STOP USING ALL FORMS OF TECHNOLOGY, including the computer, electricity, the internet, smartphones, wi-fi etc. which allow for your illogical, contradictory, hypocritical and self-defeating trolling.

You guys should give up houses, apartments, walls, hammers, nails, metal, etc. as well. And give up supermarkets so you can hunt your own food. And don't use guns or spears; use your own bare frikkin hands to kill animals to get your protein. After all, e-bikes teach everyone that humans using their brains to create technology to make life easier is inherently evil. Stupid is, as stupid does.
Either that, or we could just stop referring to any and all powered vehicles as "bikes", and call them something a little less misleading.
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Old 07-04-19, 05:09 PM
  #135  
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Originally Posted by Lemond1985 View Post
Either that, or we could just stop referring to any and all powered vehicles as "bikes", and call them something a little less misleading.
False. All e-bikes sold by established bicycle manufacturers MUST be pedaled in order for the bicycle to move. They ALL still require human power. The term is not in any way, shape or form "misleading." If anything, you are misleading yourself by insinuating (but not directly stating) that e-bikes are solely motor powered, which is completely false. Nice try though.
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Old 07-04-19, 05:20 PM
  #136  
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So I take it you would be OK with a "Moped" sub-forum here?
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Old 07-04-19, 05:23 PM
  #137  
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Originally Posted by Lemond1985 View Post
So I take it you would be OK with a "Moped" sub-forum here?
Mopeds ARE different... You don't actually NEED to pedal them, and... are subject to different rules, like insurance, licensing because of that minor FACT... Legal E-Bikes have different class requirement's but you do need to pedal them, to be considered,... legally be considered, and, ARE, considered bicycle's...

Last edited by 350htrr; 07-04-19 at 05:30 PM. Reason: add stuff
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Old 07-04-19, 05:31 PM
  #138  
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Originally Posted by Lemond1985 View Post
Either that, or we could just stop referring to any and all powered vehicles as "bikes", and call them something a little less misleading.
How about referring to them as E-Bikes... ??? and... Guess what , everyone would know, exactly, what you are riding...

Last edited by 350htrr; 07-04-19 at 06:22 PM.
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Old 07-04-19, 06:28 PM
  #139  
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Originally Posted by 350htrr View Post
Shiite, you's making me research things that I happen to know are true... How's about YOU, posting a single E-Bike for sale here in N. America, that you can't get with a throttle...??? Come on, you can do it...
I don't think any of the bikes reviewed here https://www.bicycling.com/bikes-gear...lectric-bikes/ have throttles. They indicate class 2 bikes which include a throttle are not popular.
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Old 07-04-19, 06:56 PM
  #140  
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Originally Posted by gregf83 View Post
I don't think any of the bikes reviewed here https://www.bicycling.com/bikes-gear...lectric-bikes/ have throttles. They indicate class 2 bikes which include a throttle are not popular.
and, I am sure I can provide 2X or more, as many E-Bikes that you can buy, that do, have throttles, as an option, compared to there IS no option of throttles... Which seems like none, of those E-Bikes actually states, that a throttle is not an option, just that throttles are... not/seem to be not a requirement to E-Bike buyers... Totally false IMO & MY experience.in having an E-Bike for the last 7 Years and talking to other E-Bike owners as to what they have.. EVERYONE, 100% have throttles...
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Old 07-04-19, 07:14 PM
  #141  
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Originally Posted by Barrettscv View Post
I know that a pedal-assist e-bike is in my future. I'm delaying this day by increasing the regularity of my training by using an indoor trainer. I've also added a lightweight carbon bike with a 46 & 30 chainrings and a 11-32 cassette. But an e-bike is going to happen eventually.

Being active will always be superior to being sedentary. An e-bike keeps a cyclist active, pure and simple. Especially if you enjoy scenic, hilly routes, an e-bike will increase your overall health and happiness.

When I pull the trigger for an e-bike I won't worry what anyone else thinks or says. I'll still be pedaling and enjoying the great outdoors, that's all that matters.
At 55 y/o I am not ready for an assist with an electric motor. I have done my research and my next modification after wearing out my 6800 50/34, 11-28 gearing is to have a more climbing friendly 11-34 cassette.

IMHO, the argument is an e-bike will allow one to climb hills one would not be able to do under human power alone. Good, I get it. My observation is I only see e-bikes around the beach coastal trails and river trails in SoCal. I do not see e-bikes in the canyons and mountain roads I frequent. Still recreational, but lets be honest, not much effort is required on the flats.
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Old 07-04-19, 07:30 PM
  #142  
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Originally Posted by CAT7RDR View Post
At 55 y/o I am not ready for an assist with an electric motor. I have done my research and my next modification after wearing out my 6800 50/34, 11-28 gearing is to have a more climbing friendly 11-34 cassette.

IMHO, the argument is an e-bike will allow one to climb hills one would not be able to do under human power alone. Good, I get it. My observation is I only see e-bikes around the beach coastal trails and river trails in SoCal. I do not see e-bikes in the canyons and mountain roads I frequent. Still recreational, but lets be honest, not much effort is required on the flats.
Those type of E-Bikers are after speed, it's that simple, speed, and less effort to go those speeds... Moped riders, in other words, not bicycle riders, who want/need, a bit of "assistance". THAT, is the reason the EU has limited the watts to 250 or 350 and a cut out assistance at 25 or 32Km/Hr, to eliminate that "problem"...
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Old 07-04-19, 07:36 PM
  #143  
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Originally Posted by 350htrr View Post
and, I am sure I can provide 2X or more, as many E-Bikes that you can buy, that do, have throttles, as an option, compared to there IS no option of throttles... Which seems like none, of those E-Bikes actually states, that a throttle is not an option,
None of them states that a turbo-charger or gas engine is not an option either, that's hardly evidence that those are options though.

I had a quick look at Trek, Giant and Specialized and they all appear to only sell pedal assist bikes. That's consistent with the ebikes I've seen around town which always appear to have someone pedaling.
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Old 07-04-19, 07:44 PM
  #144  
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Originally Posted by gregf83 View Post
None of them states that a turbo-charger or gas engine is not an option either, that's hardly evidence that those are options though.

I had a quick look at Trek, Giant and Specialized and they all appear to only sell pedal assist bikes. That's consistent with the ebikes I've seen around town which always appear to have someone pedaling.
Just because someone is pedaling does not mean they are putting any "effort" into pedaling... Some, maybe even most, PAS systems are rotation sensor types... NOT pressure sensor types,. Thus, they can be used, as a throttle without actually using a throttle, all one needs do is "pretend pedal", rotate the crank... You know, like mopeds tried to do 60 years ago, and succeeded for awhile, just because they had pedals they too were considered to be, legally bicycles...

Last edited by 350htrr; 07-04-19 at 07:57 PM. Reason: add stuff
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Old 07-04-19, 07:55 PM
  #145  
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Originally Posted by 350htrr View Post
Just because someone is pedaling does not mean they are putting any "effort" into pedaling... Some, maybe even most, PAS systems are rotation sensor types... NOT pressure sensor types,. Thus, they can be used, as a throttle without actually using a throttle, all one needs do is "pretend pedal", rotate the crank... You know, like mopeds tries to do 60 years ago, just because they had pedals they were legally bicycles...
I guess your back pedaling is appropriate for a bike forum but it appears you don't really know how ebikes from any of the major manufacturers work.
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Old 07-04-19, 08:06 PM
  #146  
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Originally Posted by gregf83 View Post
I guess your back pedaling is appropriate for a bike forum but it appears you don't really know how ebikes from any of the major manufacturers work.
Back pedalling... Ha, Ha... that's funny. No, I just see both sides of the "problem"... and, IMO have settled on the EU, definition of what a bicycle is, or more like what an E-Assist bicycle is/should be, to still be considered a bicycle, Legally a bicycle anyways...
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Old 07-04-19, 09:33 PM
  #147  
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Originally Posted by CAT7RDR View Post
At 55 y/o I am not ready for an assist with an electric motor. I have done my research and my next modification after wearing out my 6800 50/34, 11-28 gearing is to have a more climbing friendly 11-34 cassette.

IMHO, the argument is an e-bike will allow one to climb hills one would not be able to do under human power alone. Good, I get it. My observation is I only see e-bikes around the beach coastal trails and river trails in SoCal. I do not see e-bikes in the canyons and mountain roads I frequent. Still recreational, but lets be honest, not much effort is required on the flats.
I'm 65 and I don't see one in my immediate future, either, but a friend who was a good road rider now rides an e-bike with mods and extra batteries. To go on a 60 mile hilly ride he needs at least 2 batteries. He also pushed me up a few hills when I was tired.

I have another friend who rides an e-trike. This guy has raced road and velodrome and did club rides for decades. He goes in the hills and canyons on it.

Mostly I have seen assisted mtb riders on the trails, even saw a group of around a dozen young men on trails near Rocky Peak. I even saw one on the road today on the way up to Mount Baldy.
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Old 07-05-19, 03:38 PM
  #148  
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Originally Posted by 350htrr View Post
and, I am sure I can provide 2X or more, as many E-Bikes that you can buy, that do, have throttles, as an option, compared to there IS no option of throttles... Which seems like none, of those E-Bikes actually states, that a throttle is not an option, just that throttles are... not/seem to be not a requirement to E-Bike buyers... Totally false IMO & MY experience.in having an E-Bike for the last 7 Years and talking to other E-Bike owners as to what they have.. EVERYONE, 100% have throttles...
Sorry, talking to a few people you know is not a basis for generalizing to all e-bike owners.
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Old 07-05-19, 05:25 PM
  #149  
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Originally Posted by radroad View Post
Sorry, talking to a few people you know is not a basis for generalizing to all e-bike owners.
Most also have pedalec, BUT, guess what, most pedalecs are just rotation sensors... In other words just a throttle, as they do not, have pressure sensors, So, a "pretend pedaling" effort, or a full pedaling effort, works just as well, as a throttle, (when you don't actually want to pedal), as to reducing sweating/effort, but in reality, it is in every way is just a throttle, (or can be used as a throttle), except it "looks" like normal bike pedalling, whether it is or not, ... and the person using it can honestly say/think, they do not have a throttle

EDIT; IN other words, people are hoodwinked, probably willingly to get around the Laws... Oh look, My E-Bike does not have a throttle... (but I don't actually need to put any effort into pedaling to go any where, I just need to rotate the crank)... and, you wonder why some people on here are so against E-Bikes pretending to be bicycles...

EDIT 2: I am actually 100%for E-Assist bicycles.... BUT, Not mopeds, or even, overpowered E-Bikes with a throttle, where one does not need to put in a "normal amount of effort" to go anywhere...

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Old 07-05-19, 07:49 PM
  #150  
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The more you use pedal assist the less work you'll do. And the less work you do, the less good it will do you. Like power chairs. Do these devices really help or just make things worse?
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