North Carolina bill to require bicycle registration/fee
#26
Banned.
Collecting the fees and maintaining the records will cost more than the fees, nevermind the cost to enforce the rule. This'd be one of those things where the po-po should speak up and say this is impossible, don't pass this crap bc we're not gonna enforce it.
I'd be curious to hear how much revenue they expect to generate with this.
I'd be curious to hear how much revenue they expect to generate with this.
winner winner chicken dinner
hopefully this bill does not pass
Ludicrous. Getting anything done at the dmv is hard enough in this state
#27
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Laws like this, in the right hands, could put a huge dent in the bike theft problem, by keeping track of bike via serial numbers or unique undetectable markings, such as Smart Water technology:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SmartWater
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SmartWater
Second, you are assuming cops will be more willing to look for bike thieves. The people who would get busted would be poor folks who bought off EBay or local websites. Thieves don't steal bikes and ride them. You do know that, I hope.
What this could do would be to bind up a bunch of folks whose bikes were stolen, who needed to buy a cheap replacement immediately to do their daily commute.
My question would be, if there is a plate issued .... where would it be mounted? I have no free real estate on my seat post, no rear rack, no place to attach a bracket ....
#28
SuperGimp
Still ludicrous. The tax usually relies on the "cyclists don't pay to maintain roads" screed, which is ludicrous given the fact that a 20# bike does negligible damage and most roads are funded in (not a small) part from the general fund anyway, which we all pay into.
Politicians being stupid, news at 11.
#29
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As a collector (of sorts) who owns 20 bikes do they all have to be registered annually? About a dozen are over 25 years - vintage plates? Senior citizen exemption?
Can an insurance requirement be far behind?
Can an insurance requirement be far behind?
#30
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[(5)] (4) “Taxable bicycle” means a new bicycle that has [wheels of at least 26 inches in diameter and] a retail sales price of $200 or more.
Defining a “wheel” as a rim and tire makes no sense. You don’t buy “wheels” when you replace the tires. They are a separate unit.
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#31
Senior Member
this is just to run the program. think about the enforcement side. Ticket is $25. That is peanuts in judicial system right. they will waste more money and time trying to collect that petty offence fine that has no bearing to a persons record. AND if they do collect the 25 bones not one dime of that will actually go towards the program the 10 was made for. the courts get the 25 for filing/fees and such. This is a pretty poorly planned idea to me.
$25 fine
$10 E.M.S.
$45 Surcharge
$40.50 "Costs"
$22.00 J.C.P/A.T.J.
for an actual total of $142.50.
#32
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We have mandatory registration in Hawaii. It's no big deal, but it is one time at time of sale. If you import a bike you are supposed to go down to one of the satellite city halls (our version of DMV + other local permits/fees) and register it. They give a form that you are supposed to sign over to anyone you sell it to.
scott s.
.
scott s.
.
#33
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Ok, this one really gets me riled up.
Motorists are always harping that bicycles should be licensed. I ask them why? They state so that we will be helping to pay for the roads that we use. License fees go to maintain the infrastructure for tracking and managing motor vehicle registrations. None of it goes to road maintenance. Road maintenance is paid out of general funds that primarily come from property, fuel and other taxes.
I live in the far NE corner of Tennessee. We often ride from here to Va. and N.C. I know that in the mountains of N.C. there are a lot of cyclists that would not be too keen about this bill.
ETA....
This is much more egregious than it seems at first. With automobiles, licenses are covered under reciprocity. At first glance it does not look like this bill takes that into account.
Everyone needs to e-mail this representative and ask them 1 question. If this becomes law and I am riding my bike in N.C. will I be fined or is there reciprocity with my state's bicycle licensing requirements?
Motorists are always harping that bicycles should be licensed. I ask them why? They state so that we will be helping to pay for the roads that we use. License fees go to maintain the infrastructure for tracking and managing motor vehicle registrations. None of it goes to road maintenance. Road maintenance is paid out of general funds that primarily come from property, fuel and other taxes.
I live in the far NE corner of Tennessee. We often ride from here to Va. and N.C. I know that in the mountains of N.C. there are a lot of cyclists that would not be too keen about this bill.
ETA....
This is much more egregious than it seems at first. With automobiles, licenses are covered under reciprocity. At first glance it does not look like this bill takes that into account.
Everyone needs to e-mail this representative and ask them 1 question. If this becomes law and I am riding my bike in N.C. will I be fined or is there reciprocity with my state's bicycle licensing requirements?
Last edited by bakerjw; 02-27-19 at 05:04 AM.
#34
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It's a dumb law. 'Nuff said.
#35
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We have mandatory registration in Hawaii. It's no big deal, but it is one time at time of sale. If you import a bike you are supposed to go down to one of the satellite city halls (our version of DMV + other local permits/fees) and register it. They give a form that you are supposed to sign over to anyone you sell it to.
scott s.
.
scott s.
.
What!read about Hawaii is that this works because enforcement just requires checking the bike shops for compliance, and no "on the streer" enforcement is done. Basically, its a sales tax on new bikes.
Does anyone actually register the imported bikes? How much is the fee? I know that l wouldn't want the extra trip to the DMV, and would probably skip it if I knew no one was enforcing it.
#36
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Does anyone know if this bill even made it out of committee? I'm not sure about the legislative process in NC, but in most places this sort of announcement is just a PR stunt.
#37
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What!read about Hawaii is that this works because enforcement just requires checking the bike shops for compliance, and no "on the streer" enforcement is done. Basically, its a sales tax on new bikes.
Does anyone actually register the imported bikes? How much is the fee? I know that l wouldn't want the extra trip to the DMV, and would probably skip it if I knew no one was enforcing it.
What!read about Hawaii is that this works because enforcement just requires checking the bike shops for compliance, and no "on the streer" enforcement is done. Basically, its a sales tax on new bikes.
Does anyone actually register the imported bikes? How much is the fee? I know that l wouldn't want the extra trip to the DMV, and would probably skip it if I knew no one was enforcing it.
#38
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I wouldn't be against the Hawaiian model if it does that, but I think that rationale would justify registering all kinds of frequently stolen consumer goods. I don't see how bikes are different enough from, say, portable electronic devices to justify mandatory registering of one but not the other.
#39
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#40
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+1. Like the lawmaker in Montana who, a year or two ago, proposed banning bikes and pedestrians on city streets that don't have shoulders. Not coincidentally, he owned a Harley dealership. The proposal went nowhere.
#41
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The guy got in office by being a lying toady pretender with all the key buzz words.
Surprise NC!
Plastic straws are next.
Maybe he'll be 'Morning Schmoes" next love interest.
Surprise NC!
Plastic straws are next.
Maybe he'll be 'Morning Schmoes" next love interest.
Last edited by ArmChairRider; 02-27-19 at 08:21 AM.
#42
Senior Member
no, that's the text of the law, not a definition.
A legal definition is like the first several pages here: https://www.ncleg.net/enactedlegislat...chapter_20.pdf
North Carolina doesn't currently seem to define a wheel, but perhaps the proposed legislation would include such a definition.
Defining a “wheel” as a rim and tire makes no sense. You don’t buy “wheels” when you replace the tires. They are a separate unit.
On a car you disassemble the wheel by removing the tire from the rim. Then fit a new tire to the rim to reassemble the wheel with a new tire. Because of the multiple parts in a bicycle, the term wheel is usually used interchangeably for a rim with hub and spokes or that part with a tire on it.
#43
Senior Member
Coming from a Californian, the home of stupid intrusive laws... Glass houses, my friend.
#44
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I can just see a cop pulling over a pace line of bike because they moved out of a marked bike lane and then asking each of them to identify themselves and their bikes.
When I was younger we used to go to the fire station and purchase bicycle licenses. Never in all of those years had I ever heard or read of anyone being cited for riding without a license.
TAX GRAB
When I was younger we used to go to the fire station and purchase bicycle licenses. Never in all of those years had I ever heard or read of anyone being cited for riding without a license.
TAX GRAB
#45
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#46
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Word on the street is that it's grumpy drivers and truckers in his home area where the hills and curves attract riders and sometimes hold up cars.
Thus, it's a typical backwoods "nimby" thing.
I sent a message to his group asking if they'd instead consider registering their guns for a fee.
Thus, it's a typical backwoods "nimby" thing.
I sent a message to his group asking if they'd instead consider registering their guns for a fee.
#47
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The bill's sponsor is Representative Jeffrey Elmore - 94th district, Wilkes and Alexander Counties.
NC House Representative Jeffrey Elmore
Work to vote him out of office.
NC House Representative Jeffrey Elmore
Work to vote him out of office.
On the other hand, it seems to me that if bike registration costs you ten bucks, and you pay it, you have a right to go to your local legislator AND STAND ON HIS OR HER THROAT to get bike lines put in, potholes fixed, dangerous intersections redesigned, MUPS, etc. In other words, ten bucks might be cheap leverage to get useful bike things done. Too, as a Conservative I believe in use taxes: taxes should fall on those that use public stuff. So cars should pay a license fee and taxes on gas should pay for roads. If we bikers want to use roads or MUPS, we should pay for em. Not fair to let the general public pay for our (bikers) convenience.
A metal license plate is ridiculous. Given gubmint efficiency, it might cost more than ten bucks to stamp out! Should be a tamper-evident sticker with a license number, with additional plastic cards with RFID that you can hide in the seat tube, handlebars, and wheel rim. Initially useless, but if registration hits a critical mass, it might help a little bit with theft recovery and tracking down owners of stolen bikes.
Last edited by WizardOfBoz; 02-27-19 at 09:04 AM.
#48
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no, that's the text of the law, not a definition.
A legal definition is like the first several pages here: https://www.ncleg.net/enactedlegislat...chapter_20.pdf
North Carolina doesn't currently seem to define a wheel, but perhaps the proposed legislation would include such a definition.
A legal definition is like the first several pages here: https://www.ncleg.net/enactedlegislat...chapter_20.pdf
North Carolina doesn't currently seem to define a wheel, but perhaps the proposed legislation would include such a definition.
Except that's exactly how it is defined with cars.
On a car you disassemble the wheel by removing the tire from the rim. Then fit a new tire to the rim to reassemble the wheel with a new tire. Because of the multiple parts in a bicycle, the term wheel is usually used interchangeably for a rim with hub and spokes or that part with a tire on it.
On a car you disassemble the wheel by removing the tire from the rim. Then fit a new tire to the rim to reassemble the wheel with a new tire. Because of the multiple parts in a bicycle, the term wheel is usually used interchangeably for a rim with hub and spokes or that part with a tire on it.
A chassis is the frame that supports the trailer's suspension, axles, wheels, tires, and brakes.
On the other hand, there are 204 references to tires. They aren't defined there as a single unit.
Additionally, I could find nothing in the Oregon bill that defines a bicycle "wheel". Only in reference to the "size".
(1)(a) “Bicycle” means a vehicle that is designed to be operated on the ground on wheels and is propelled exclusively by human power.
3) Travels on three or more pneumatic tires that are six inches or more in width and that are designed for use on wheels with a rim diameter of 14 inches or less;
The people who crafted the law had no idea what a bicycle wheel "size" is. You could even argue that you could get around the tax on a 700C wheel by putting 19mm tires on every bike. That's less than 26". There's a 101mm difference between a 559mm mountain bike wheel...i.e. the "26 inch" wheel...and it actually measuring 26". Put a narrow tire on it and you don't have to pay the tax.
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Plan Epsilon Around Lake Michigan in the era of Covid
Old School…When It Wasn’t Ancient bikepacking
Gold Fever Three days of dirt in Colorado
Pokin' around the Poconos A cold ride around Lake Erie
Dinosaurs in Colorado A mountain bike guide to the Purgatory Canyon dinosaur trackway
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Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!
Last edited by cyccommute; 02-27-19 at 09:16 AM.
#49
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The Oregon law only applies to new bicycle sales. Used sales are exempted.
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Old School…When It Wasn’t Ancient bikepacking
Gold Fever Three days of dirt in Colorado
Pokin' around the Poconos A cold ride around Lake Erie
Dinosaurs in Colorado A mountain bike guide to the Purgatory Canyon dinosaur trackway
Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!
Stuart Black
Plan Epsilon Around Lake Michigan in the era of Covid
Old School…When It Wasn’t Ancient bikepacking
Gold Fever Three days of dirt in Colorado
Pokin' around the Poconos A cold ride around Lake Erie
Dinosaurs in Colorado A mountain bike guide to the Purgatory Canyon dinosaur trackway
Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!
#50
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Nope (with the understanding that a LEO ignorant of the law can ticket/arrest you for anything or nothing). The States have a big 'reciprocity' thing going on. Legal at home, okay here. Think about it: you don't have to buy a NC license for your car just to drive through the state.
Fun fact: Internationally, any country that signed the 1968 Vienna Convention on Road Traffic (and that's darn near every country on the planet) has agreed that cyclists from elsewhere can transit their roads so long as their bike is equipped with at least one brake, a front white light, a red rear reflector and a bell.
Fun fact: Internationally, any country that signed the 1968 Vienna Convention on Road Traffic (and that's darn near every country on the planet) has agreed that cyclists from elsewhere can transit their roads so long as their bike is equipped with at least one brake, a front white light, a red rear reflector and a bell.
Last edited by tcs; 02-28-19 at 09:20 AM.