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North Carolina bill to require bicycle registration/fee

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North Carolina bill to require bicycle registration/fee

Old 02-26-19, 09:51 PM
  #26  
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Originally Posted by ridelikeaturtle
Collecting the fees and maintaining the records will cost more than the fees, nevermind the cost to enforce the rule. This'd be one of those things where the po-po should speak up and say this is impossible, don't pass this crap bc we're not gonna enforce it.

I'd be curious to hear how much revenue they expect to generate with this.

winner winner chicken dinner

hopefully this bill does not pass

Ludicrous. Getting anything done at the dmv is hard enough in this state
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Old 02-26-19, 10:06 PM
  #27  
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Originally Posted by Lemond1985
Laws like this, in the right hands, could put a huge dent in the bike theft problem, by keeping track of bike via serial numbers or unique undetectable markings, such as Smart Water technology:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SmartWater
You are not entirely correct .... in fact ... entirely wrong. First off, you are proposing addenda to the bill which as of now do not exist.

Second, you are assuming cops will be more willing to look for bike thieves. The people who would get busted would be poor folks who bought off EBay or local websites. Thieves don't steal bikes and ride them. You do know that, I hope.

What this could do would be to bind up a bunch of folks whose bikes were stolen, who needed to buy a cheap replacement immediately to do their daily commute.

Originally Posted by Lemond1985
I personally have had 5 bikes stolen from me over the years, but I wouldn't even want most of those bikes back at this point.
Lucky you, since that would never have happened anyway.

My question would be, if there is a plate issued .... where would it be mounted? I have no free real estate on my seat post, no rear rack, no place to attach a bracket ....
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Old 02-26-19, 10:38 PM
  #28  
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Originally Posted by cyccommute
A multiuser separated bike path (11 feet wide) costs around $500,000 per mile. So they can squeeze out just shy of 2 miles of MUP. North Carolina isn't going to get any better deal.
Move to California, it's more like a million buxx a mile out here.

Still ludicrous. The tax usually relies on the "cyclists don't pay to maintain roads" screed, which is ludicrous given the fact that a 20# bike does negligible damage and most roads are funded in (not a small) part from the general fund anyway, which we all pay into.

Politicians being stupid, news at 11.
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Old 02-26-19, 10:51 PM
  #29  
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As a collector (of sorts) who owns 20 bikes do they all have to be registered annually? About a dozen are over 25 years - vintage plates? Senior citizen exemption?

Can an insurance requirement be far behind?
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Old 02-26-19, 11:23 PM
  #30  
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Originally Posted by Caliper
It will depend how "wheel" is defined in law, not how cyclists refer to things. In automotive nomenclature, a wheel is a rim+tire so the law may see it the same way for bicycles.
The law says

​​​​​​
[(5)] (4) “Taxable bicycle” means a new bicycle that has [wheels of at least 26 inches in diameter and] a retail sales price of $200 or more.


Defining a “wheel” as a rim and tire makes no sense. You don’t buy “wheels” when you replace the tires. They are a separate unit.
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Old 02-26-19, 11:36 PM
  #31  
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Originally Posted by sdmc530
this is just to run the program. think about the enforcement side. Ticket is $25. That is peanuts in judicial system right. they will waste more money and time trying to collect that petty offence fine that has no bearing to a persons record. AND if they do collect the 25 bones not one dime of that will actually go towards the program the 10 was made for. the courts get the 25 for filing/fees and such. This is a pretty poorly planned idea to me.
Just like when you get a moving violation in a car, I guarantee the citation will not be for $25. It will be:

$25 fine
$10 E.M.S.
$45 Surcharge
$40.50 "Costs"
$22.00 J.C.P/A.T.J.

for an actual total of $142.50.
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Old 02-27-19, 01:47 AM
  #32  
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We have mandatory registration in Hawaii. It's no big deal, but it is one time at time of sale. If you import a bike you are supposed to go down to one of the satellite city halls (our version of DMV + other local permits/fees) and register it. They give a form that you are supposed to sign over to anyone you sell it to.

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Old 02-27-19, 05:00 AM
  #33  
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Ok, this one really gets me riled up.

Motorists are always harping that bicycles should be licensed. I ask them why? They state so that we will be helping to pay for the roads that we use. License fees go to maintain the infrastructure for tracking and managing motor vehicle registrations. None of it goes to road maintenance. Road maintenance is paid out of general funds that primarily come from property, fuel and other taxes.

I live in the far NE corner of Tennessee. We often ride from here to Va. and N.C. I know that in the mountains of N.C. there are a lot of cyclists that would not be too keen about this bill.

ETA....
This is much more egregious than it seems at first. With automobiles, licenses are covered under reciprocity. At first glance it does not look like this bill takes that into account.
Everyone needs to e-mail this representative and ask them 1 question. If this becomes law and I am riding my bike in N.C. will I be fined or is there reciprocity with my state's bicycle licensing requirements?

Last edited by bakerjw; 02-27-19 at 05:04 AM.
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Old 02-27-19, 05:22 AM
  #34  
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It's a dumb law. 'Nuff said.
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Old 02-27-19, 05:22 AM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by scott967
We have mandatory registration in Hawaii. It's no big deal, but it is one time at time of sale. If you import a bike you are supposed to go down to one of the satellite city halls (our version of DMV + other local permits/fees) and register it. They give a form that you are supposed to sign over to anyone you sell it to.

scott s.
.
​​​​​
What!read about Hawaii is that this works because enforcement just requires checking the bike shops for compliance, and no "on the streer" enforcement is done. Basically, its a sales tax on new bikes.

Does anyone actually register the imported bikes? How much is the fee? I know that l wouldn't want the extra trip to the DMV, and would probably skip it if I knew no one was enforcing it.
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Old 02-27-19, 05:38 AM
  #36  
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Does anyone know if this bill even made it out of committee? I'm not sure about the legislative process in NC, but in most places this sort of announcement is just a PR stunt.
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Old 02-27-19, 06:08 AM
  #37  
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Originally Posted by livedarklions
​​​​​
What!read about Hawaii is that this works because enforcement just requires checking the bike shops for compliance, and no "on the streer" enforcement is done. Basically, its a sales tax on new bikes.

Does anyone actually register the imported bikes? How much is the fee? I know that l wouldn't want the extra trip to the DMV, and would probably skip it if I knew no one was enforcing it.
Might be worth it if the program captures bike serial numbers and is used in theft recovery initiatives.
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Old 02-27-19, 07:13 AM
  #38  
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Originally Posted by Sy Reene
Might be worth it if the program captures bike serial numbers and is used in theft recovery initiatives.
I wouldn't be against the Hawaiian model if it does that, but I think that rationale would justify registering all kinds of frequently stolen consumer goods. I don't see how bikes are different enough from, say, portable electronic devices to justify mandatory registering of one but not the other.
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Old 02-27-19, 07:15 AM
  #39  
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Originally Posted by unterhausen
Does anyone know if this bill even made it out of committee? I'm not sure about the legislative process in NC, but in most places this sort of announcement is just a PR stunt.
According to the link in the OP, it just got referred to committee yesterday.
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Old 02-27-19, 07:16 AM
  #40  
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Originally Posted by unterhausen
Does anyone know if this bill even made it out of committee? I'm not sure about the legislative process in NC, but in most places this sort of announcement is just a PR stunt.
+1. Like the lawmaker in Montana who, a year or two ago, proposed banning bikes and pedestrians on city streets that don't have shoulders. Not coincidentally, he owned a Harley dealership. The proposal went nowhere.
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Old 02-27-19, 07:49 AM
  #41  
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The guy got in office by being a lying toady pretender with all the key buzz words.
Surprise NC!
Plastic straws are next.
Maybe he'll be 'Morning Schmoes" next love interest.

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Old 02-27-19, 07:59 AM
  #42  
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Originally Posted by cyccommute
The law says


no, that's the text of the law, not a definition.
A legal definition is like the first several pages here: https://www.ncleg.net/enactedlegislat...chapter_20.pdf
North Carolina doesn't currently seem to define a wheel, but perhaps the proposed legislation would include such a definition.

​​​​​​
Defining a “wheel” as a rim and tire makes no sense. You don’t buy “wheels” when you replace the tires. They are a separate unit.
Except that's exactly how it is defined with cars.

On a car you disassemble the wheel by removing the tire from the rim. Then fit a new tire to the rim to reassemble the wheel with a new tire. Because of the multiple parts in a bicycle, the term wheel is usually used interchangeably for a rim with hub and spokes or that part with a tire on it.
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Old 02-27-19, 08:02 AM
  #43  
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Originally Posted by KraneXL
You people never learn. You keep voting these yahoos into office until they become doddering old fools. Stupid intrusive laws. Is that the state where your wife could be your cousin? No, that's West Virginia.
Coming from a Californian, the home of stupid intrusive laws... Glass houses, my friend.
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Old 02-27-19, 08:07 AM
  #44  
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I can just see a cop pulling over a pace line of bike because they moved out of a marked bike lane and then asking each of them to identify themselves and their bikes.

When I was younger we used to go to the fire station and purchase bicycle licenses. Never in all of those years had I ever heard or read of anyone being cited for riding without a license.

TAX GRAB
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Old 02-27-19, 08:11 AM
  #45  
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Originally Posted by cyccommute
The law says
“[(5)] (4) 'Taxable bicycle' means a new bicycle that has [wheels of at least 26 inches in diameter and] a retail sales price of $200 or more.”
I build my own bikes, so they have no actual "retail value." Would that make them exempt, I wonder?
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Old 02-27-19, 08:28 AM
  #46  
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Word on the street is that it's grumpy drivers and truckers in his home area where the hills and curves attract riders and sometimes hold up cars.

Thus, it's a typical backwoods "nimby" thing.

I sent a message to his group asking if they'd instead consider registering their guns for a fee.
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Old 02-27-19, 08:55 AM
  #47  
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Originally Posted by TimothyH
The bill's sponsor is Representative Jeffrey Elmore - 94th district, Wilkes and Alexander Counties.

NC House Representative Jeffrey Elmore

Work to vote him out of office.
Hold on now. I have no skin in the game here, and my Conservative self shouts out at me "They're just going to take that ten bucks, times hundreds of thousands of bikers, and put in in the general fund to enrich themselves and their political allies". So your impulse was my first impulse, Timothy.

On the other hand, it seems to me that if bike registration costs you ten bucks, and you pay it, you have a right to go to your local legislator AND STAND ON HIS OR HER THROAT to get bike lines put in, potholes fixed, dangerous intersections redesigned, MUPS, etc. In other words, ten bucks might be cheap leverage to get useful bike things done. Too, as a Conservative I believe in use taxes: taxes should fall on those that use public stuff. So cars should pay a license fee and taxes on gas should pay for roads. If we bikers want to use roads or MUPS, we should pay for em. Not fair to let the general public pay for our (bikers) convenience.

A metal license plate is ridiculous. Given gubmint efficiency, it might cost more than ten bucks to stamp out! Should be a tamper-evident sticker with a license number, with additional plastic cards with RFID that you can hide in the seat tube, handlebars, and wheel rim. Initially useless, but if registration hits a critical mass, it might help a little bit with theft recovery and tracking down owners of stolen bikes.

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Old 02-27-19, 09:06 AM
  #48  
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Originally Posted by Caliper
no, that's the text of the law, not a definition.
A legal definition is like the first several pages here: https://www.ncleg.net/enactedlegislat...chapter_20.pdf
North Carolina doesn't currently seem to define a wheel, but perhaps the proposed legislation would include such a definition.
I have yet to find a definition of a "wheel" as a tire wheel combination. In the link above, several times they refer to "wheels" and "tires" separately.​​​​​​

Originally Posted by Caliper
Except that's exactly how it is defined with cars.

On a car you disassemble the wheel by removing the tire from the rim. Then fit a new tire to the rim to reassemble the wheel with a new tire. Because of the multiple parts in a bicycle, the term wheel is usually used interchangeably for a rim with hub and spokes or that part with a tire on it.
Except where it is not defined as a wheel/tire combination. When you replace the tires on a car, you pay an excise tax on the tires that are fitted to the wheels. If you buy wheels on which to mount the tires, you don't pay an excise tax. The Federal Register: Excise Tax; Tractors, Trailers, Trucks, and Tires; Definition of Highway Vehicle gives has 5 references to "wheel" of which this is one.


A chassis is the frame that supports the trailer's suspension, axles, wheels, tires, and brakes.
The other 4 refer to a similar definition, a four wheel braking system and 2 references to 5th wheels on trailer.

On the other hand, there are 204 references to tires. They aren't defined there as a single unit.

Additionally, I could find nothing in the Oregon bill that defines a bicycle "wheel". Only in reference to the "size".

(1)(a) “Bicycle” means a vehicle that is designed to be operated on the ground on wheels and is propelled exclusively by human power.
In the ODOT definitions page, they don't call out the wheel as a tire and wheel specifically although they do so when discussing off-road vehicles. From 801.190 “Class I all-terrain vehicle” section

3) Travels on three or more pneumatic tires that are six inches or more in width and that are designed for use on wheels with a rim diameter of 14 inches or less;
That's the verbatim language used in parts of the federal register as well.

The people who crafted the law had no idea what a bicycle wheel "size" is. You could even argue that you could get around the tax on a 700C wheel by putting 19mm tires on every bike. That's less than 26". There's a 101mm difference between a 559mm mountain bike wheel...i.e. the "26 inch" wheel...and it actually measuring 26". Put a narrow tire on it and you don't have to pay the tax.
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Old 02-27-19, 09:07 AM
  #49  
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Originally Posted by JohnDThompson
I build my own bikes, so they have no actual "retail value." Would that make them exempt, I wonder?
The Oregon law only applies to new bicycle sales. Used sales are exempted.
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Old 02-27-19, 09:22 AM
  #50  
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Originally Posted by Iride01
...and ticket all of us from out of state?
Nope (with the understanding that a LEO ignorant of the law can ticket/arrest you for anything or nothing). The States have a big 'reciprocity' thing going on. Legal at home, okay here. Think about it: you don't have to buy a NC license for your car just to drive through the state.

Fun fact: Internationally, any country that signed the 1968 Vienna Convention on Road Traffic (and that's darn near every country on the planet) has agreed that cyclists from elsewhere can transit their roads so long as their bike is equipped with at least one brake, a front white light, a red rear reflector and a bell.

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