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Old 03-30-19, 05:50 PM
  #5726  
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Latex Tubes and Stretching

I've been running latex tubes for a few months and generally like them. But I've noticed when changing tires and re-inserting the tubes that they seem to be a bit bigger than when new and can't be inserted without a small fold somewhere on the tube. I've had two flats with these tubes (Vittoria) and the holes seem to be where the tube has folded rather than from a puncture. This has never been an issue when using butyl tubes, including the extra-thin ones. Dousing them with baby powder hasn't helped.

Is this a characteristic of latex tubes, or am I just holding my mouth wrong when I do this?
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Old 03-31-19, 01:16 PM
  #5727  
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Originally Posted by revchuck View Post
I've been running latex tubes for a few months and generally like them. But I've noticed when changing tires and re-inserting the tubes that they seem to be a bit bigger than when new and can't be inserted without a small fold somewhere on the tube. I've had two flats with these tubes (Vittoria) and the holes seem to be where the tube has folded rather than from a puncture. This has never been an issue when using butyl tubes, including the extra-thin ones. Dousing them with baby powder hasn't helped.

Is this a characteristic of latex tubes, or am I just holding my mouth wrong when I do this?
I've never, ever had good luck getting latex tubes installed. They're just too supple and cause me lots of problems.
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Old 03-31-19, 01:49 PM
  #5728  
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Originally Posted by revchuck View Post
I've been running latex tubes for a few months and generally like them. But I've noticed when changing tires and re-inserting the tubes that they seem to be a bit bigger than when new and can't be inserted without a small fold somewhere on the tube. I've had two flats with these tubes (Vittoria) and the holes seem to be where the tube has folded rather than from a puncture. This has never been an issue when using butyl tubes, including the extra-thin ones. Dousing them with baby powder hasn't helped.

Is this a characteristic of latex tubes, or am I just holding my mouth wrong when I do this?
I experienced the same issue with Vittoria latex tubes. I wore out the Michelin Power 25mm clinchers that I ran last year and switched to Challenge Criterium 25mm Open tubulars that I got at a good price. I reused the old latex tubes (eventually) but had to run the tire with a butyl tube for one ride to get the new tires to conform to the rim and relax a bit. Then I removed one bead, removed the butyl tube then re-installed the latex tube very carefully. The latex tube did have several folds in it which I got reuduced down to one small fold by deflating, applying talc, partly reinflating, then mounting the bead, inflating to about 50 psi or until I heard a noise, deflating one more time then finally inflating up to full ride pressure. No pinch flats yet doing it this way but Iíll admit it is quite fussy.
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Old 03-31-19, 02:16 PM
  #5729  
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Originally Posted by masi61 View Post


I experienced the same issue with Vittoria latex tubes. I wore out the Michelin Power 25mm clinchers that I ran last year and switched to Challenge Criterium 25mm Open tubulars that I got at a good price. I reused the old latex tubes (eventually) but had to run the tire with a butyl tube for one ride to get the new tires to conform to the rim and relax a bit. Then I removed one bead, removed the butyl tube then re-installed the latex tube very carefully. The latex tube did have several folds in it which I got reuduced down to one small fold by deflating, applying talc, partly reinflating, then mounting the bead, inflating to about 50 psi or until I heard a noise, deflating one more time then finally inflating up to full ride pressure. No pinch flats yet doing it this way but Iíll admit it is quite fussy.
I've got some Challenge latex tubes in another bike but haven't changed tires on it yet to see if they have the same issue. If not, I'll switch brands; if they do, I'll go back to the thin butyls I've been using. Latex tubes are nice, but the juice might not be worth the squeeze.
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Old 04-01-19, 12:35 PM
  #5730  
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Originally Posted by burnthesheep View Post
Frustrated with wet lube mess, bought spare chains and a crock and ultrasonic cleaner.

Giving wax a shot for a while.

Any efficiency improvements is just a nice side effect.

I will report back later.
Wow, any bike in the arsenal that the wet lube had ever touched was a damned mess. It took a LOT of time to get the rings, cassettes, RD, chains into a good base condition to give this a go. The new chains were easy, soak in gas in a jar, then a little solvent and water in the ultrasonic cleaner, then into the wax pot. My RD on the road bike I'm surprised the chain could get through the jockey wheels. Nasty.

With a new chain, it's easy. One fresh waxed chain on all 3 bikes now. Here's to hoping this works. I ended up not having a spare for the roadie though, that chain came off and when measuring up for pulling the links off the new chain..........old chain into the trash. Was worn enough down it was a whole 1/2 to 5/8" longer, LOL! Might have had some minor losses going on there.

The TT bike chain only has like 150 miles on it, so that was fine. The gravel bike chain was somehow still fine. I think because I fixed something wrong on there and that one maybe has 400mi or so on it.

First ride on one of them tonight. It's weird articulating the links the first time when it is dried up then "running in" the chain. Wax, duh.

I'll report back on performance after some usage. I'm not measuring watts gain/loss.........just routine cleaning frustration levels.
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Old 04-01-19, 01:54 PM
  #5731  
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@burnthesheep

I've been doing it for years, while it takes a long time, the process is really simple. If I have time I'll dump the cassette in as well.

The biggest issue with waxed chains is getting wax residue all over the place, especially if your first ride is on a trainer. Not nearly the mess of a lubricant though.
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Old 04-08-19, 11:37 AM
  #5732  
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Originally Posted by furiousferret View Post
@burnthesheep

I've been doing it for years, while it takes a long time, the process is really simple. If I have time I'll dump the cassette in as well.

The biggest issue with waxed chains is getting wax residue all over the place, especially if your first ride is on a trainer. Not nearly the mess of a lubricant though.
Wow, I'm impressed so far.

About 100 miles on the roadie with it. With some pretty pollen/dusty conditions. I could just air blow off the drivetrain and it looks like you could eat off of it still.

100 miles on wet lube the drivetrain would look like an Exxon tanker spill happened. Dry lube? Having to re-lube every ride sucked.

I think it recommended a clean/dunk every 300 miles to 500 for a training chain. I'll try it and see.

It's like a "pay me a few extra minutes now" for the work to gain a bunch of time back in the long run.

The ultrasonic cleaner I bought works real nice so long as you have pre-cleaned a really nasty chain or really nasty parts. It gets that last 5% or so spotless.
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Old 04-08-19, 12:33 PM
  #5733  
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I de-grease chains when new (to remove packing grease), but that's it - no extra cleaning.

Plug in the crock pot, let the wax melt, break the chain, dip it in for 30 minutes, fish it out with a metal clothes hanger, give it one single wipe, let it dry and re-install. Once every few hundred miles. So easy. So clean.
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Old 04-09-19, 08:16 AM
  #5734  
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what do you do with the waste afterwards?

also, poor crock pot
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Old 04-09-19, 08:47 AM
  #5735  
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A friend of mine has a hot wax specific crockpot.
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Old 04-09-19, 10:04 AM
  #5736  
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Originally Posted by echappist View Post
what do you do with the waste afterwards?

also, poor crock pot
Originally Posted by Wylde06 View Post
A friend of mine has a hot wax specific crockpot.
yep, I have a cheap crock pot that has the hot wax in it; I melt it, dump the chain in, and put it away. The wax just dries and you can re use it several times.
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Old 04-09-19, 10:26 AM
  #5737  
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Our crock was a small one that got dropped in the kitchen too many times and is beat up. I bought the household a new one and I assumed the old one. It's got a big dent in the side of the metal housing.

I leave the wax in it and top it up. I bought a spare chain for each bike type and pre-cleaned and waxed them to be ready

Solvent? I use water and simple green.

Gasoline for a new chain to de-grease. Then into the automotive waste container that gets periodically dumped at the dump.
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Old 04-09-19, 04:46 PM
  #5738  
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dedicated crock pot, I use mine like 5 times (or more) before tossing the melted wax. bulk paraffin on ebay is cheap.
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Old 04-09-19, 06:54 PM
  #5739  
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Originally Posted by TMonk View Post
I de-grease chains when new (to remove packing grease), but that's it - no extra cleaning.

Plug in the crock pot, let the wax melt, break the chain, dip it in for 30 minutes, fish it out with a metal clothes hanger, give it one single wipe, let it dry and re-install. Once every few hundred miles. So easy. So clean.
It doesn't dry... it freezes. #chemgeek
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Old 04-09-19, 07:03 PM
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true true. much too heavy for that!
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Old 04-09-19, 08:03 PM
  #5741  
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You all have me wanting to try waxing my chain. I hate how messy lube gets.
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Old 04-10-19, 08:31 AM
  #5742  
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I dont use a crockpot. I've got an old coffee tin that I put in a boiling pot of water like a double boiler. Get it melted, turn the temp down and just let it sit for a while. Hang to dry.

Molten speed wax is cool, but I actually just use gulf wax which can be bought at any large grocery store in the area by Mason jars and other canning supplies. I use the wax many, many times and typically just top off with more. Dirt settles to the bottom. I've got a full document on my process if anyone is interested.
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waxed-chains-beginners.pdf (68.1 KB, 14 views)
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Old 05-13-19, 07:10 AM
  #5743  
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Cross posting from Slowtwitch:

Looking for info on Hollowtech II crank chain lines. Been cruising the internet for a bit and the manuals pretty much address BB width for spacers to add or not add based on triple vs double cranks.

I'm specifically looking at it for what the chainlines have been like for 5600/6600 5x130bcd through current 4x100bcd AND also maybe some Sora 5x100 double cranks.

Basically, it is easier to find 1x aero chainrings in either 4x100, 5x100, or 5x130. With a LOT of cheaper options for 5x100 and 5x130 that includes Garbaruk.

You can get new Sora double cranksets under $75 and get them in 165mm, and they're Hollowtech II. I could care less about the weight. Those are 5x100 and Garbaruk carries a 5x100 aero chainring.

I'd prefer 165mm in a 130bcd, and they WERE made. But, not finding any used anywhere.

If it ends up being 5x130, I can keep my 2x TT chainrings and toss it onto the 165mm 5x130 crank if I need to. So, 5x130 in a 165 is my #1 choice.


Any assistance looking this info up or finding items is appreciated.
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Old 05-14-19, 06:49 AM
  #5744  
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Resolved. Instead of going for the triathlete short length crank, I sucked it up and found some 5x130 cranks in 170.

I scored a Gen 2 Stages Dura Ace meter in 167.5 for like $150 to go with the crank.

All in my shorter crank experiment cost me $215, including that power meter.

I got some new aero Speedplays locally from a guy who was hoarding Performance Bike local bike shop bankruptcy parts for like $60 cheaper. That's not part of that experiment, the deal was just too good to pass up and was tired of swapping pedals between bikes all the time. Nice to be able to grab the bike and go and not crack out tools each time I swap.

I also bought some dedicated shoes for the TT bike. I'm going to try the whole lace-up shoe deal for the "aero". We'll see.

I'm keeping the boa style SPD SL's for the road bike. I like the cheaper cleat option for walking versus aero Speedplays.

Went with a Garbaruk 1x aero chainring, in a fun color. If I need to go back to 2x, I can easily since I went with the same 5x130 crank. I'd just toss those rings and the FD back on if necessary.

At this point, once the tires come in........the TT bike setup is in final "trim". I'm happy enough position wise I'd probably only upgrade the cockpit someday if I were swapping frames if I saw a great deal on CL or a forum.
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Old 05-14-19, 12:25 PM
  #5745  
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Originally Posted by burnthesheep View Post
Resolved. Instead of going for the triathlete short length crank, I sucked it up and found some 5x130 cranks in 170.
Not just a triathlete thing. I've been running 165s on my road bike the last 3 years. Won't ever go back to anything longer.
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Old 05-14-19, 01:09 PM
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Technically, the "new" meter and crank are 167.5. It was hard to find both 165 size and 5x130. Plenty of modern 4x100 and 165 stuff. Aero chainring options in 5x130 are seemingly cheaper and more plentiful.

And, I get to keep my 2x TT chainrings in case I need or want to use that.

So, win win win.

I may raise the seat the 12mm of change in crank length minus maybe 3mm or so for me feeling I rock a tiny bit in my video of the current position. So maybe go up 9mm.
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Old 05-14-19, 01:25 PM
  #5747  
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I use 165 mm on my track bike for pursuit and sprint events. I am considering getting a PM for my TT bike and I would get 165 mm. As I recall, Fudgy uses 165 on his TT bike as well and we are both tall. An international team showed up at VSC to aero test 155 mm cranks. Fitting and crank length is about optimizing CdA.
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Old 05-14-19, 03:25 PM
  #5748  
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I use 165 on all of my bikes due to fit constraints. I'm not tall though. (5'7")
They are somewhat difficult to come by without spending a fortune.
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Old 05-27-19, 08:26 AM
  #5749  
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I've been kinda sorta kicking around the idea of a slight wheel upgrade. My wheels (front wheel is a stock axis sport wheel from my allez, rear is powertap pro with g3 internals with a 32h velocity a23) weigh 6lbs total with tires and such. I usually don't think about wheels much, but when I do group rides/races I start to think they're not up to the task (mostly imagined, but I'm sure no one is opposed for changing up gear for fun). Anyhow, not trying to go nuts with the "upgrade" but I found some options under $300 that seem marginally better than what I have, either weight-wise or aeroness. Given that I can't even ride outside on this long weekend and mostly ride indoors, it's kind of silly to be considering wheels, but I have nothing better to do! Here's what I have at the moment on my list of consideration

vision team 35 - $240
https://www.performancebike.com/visi...191050/p585716

pro-lite bracciano a27w - $220
https://www.probikekit.com/bicycle-w.../12056925.html

pro-lite bortola a21w - $302
https://www.probikekit.com/bicycle-w.../12056928.html

campagnolo scirocco c17 - $238
https://www.probikekit.com/bicycle-w.../11479772.html

and of course some rando carbon wheels on amazon prime for $299 lol
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01DIKTTDC...v_ov_lig_dp_it
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Old 05-27-19, 08:33 PM
  #5750  
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I'd go with something used off eBay, or the Campy set.

You can get some decent wheels used if you are patient and know where to look.
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