XD Driver on new Tern Verge x11
#1
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XD Driver on new Tern Verge x11
Just noticed that the new Verge x11 is using the SRAM XD Driver freehub body which allows the mounting of a 10-42t 11 speed cassette.
The 10t cog and wide gear ratio seem like a dream. Anyone mount an XD driver on their folder? It would be quite a commitment going to a new driver body and no longer being able to mount traditional cassettes.
The 10t cog and wide gear ratio seem like a dream. Anyone mount an XD driver on their folder? It would be quite a commitment going to a new driver body and no longer being able to mount traditional cassettes.
Last edited by leoho5; 03-07-17 at 07:06 AM.
#2
On yer bike
Many hubs allow the driver body to be swapped out, so theoretically you could swap back to traditional cassettes if for some reason you no longer fancied the XD setup.
#3
Senior Member
SRAM 10-42T = 4.2x
Shimano 11-46T = 4.18x
But I am sure you already know this. Don't know where you are, but here the Shimano goes for $85 here, and the SRAM for $285.
Shimano 11-46T = 4.18x
But I am sure you already know this. Don't know where you are, but here the Shimano goes for $85 here, and the SRAM for $285.
Just noticed that the new Verge x11 is using the SRAM XD Driver freehub body which allows the mounting of a 10-42t 11 speed cassette.
The 10t cog and wide gear ratio seem like a dream. Anyone mount an XD driver on their folder? It would be quite a commitment going to a new driver body and no longer being able to mount traditional cassettes.
The 10t cog and wide gear ratio seem like a dream. Anyone mount an XD driver on their folder? It would be quite a commitment going to a new driver body and no longer being able to mount traditional cassettes.
#4
The Recumbent Quant
That's true, but if you're going for high end, 10 is 10% higher than 11. (Well, 9%). And for small wheels, this is often what people are after (I run a Capreo hub and have a 9-26T cassette).
#5
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That's true, but if you are going for high end then a SRAM DD will give higher highs and lower lows.
52T / 9T = 5.78
52T / 11T * 1.36 = 6.43
(I run a SDD, 11-36T & a 47T chainring, giving 18-110 GI. I changed the old 52T chainring for a 47T because it had too much top range.)
52T / 9T = 5.78
52T / 11T * 1.36 = 6.43
(I run a SDD, 11-36T & a 47T chainring, giving 18-110 GI. I changed the old 52T chainring for a 47T because it had too much top range.)
Last edited by Abu Mahendra; 03-12-17 at 03:38 PM.
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That's true, but if you are going for high end then a SRAM DD will give higher highs and lower lows.
52T / 9T = 5.78
52T / 11T * 1.36 = 6.43
(I run a SDD, 11-36T & a 47T chainring, giving 18-110 GI. I changed the old 52T chainring for a 47T because it had too much top range.)
52T / 9T = 5.78
52T / 11T * 1.36 = 6.43
(I run a SDD, 11-36T & a 47T chainring, giving 18-110 GI. I changed the old 52T chainring for a 47T because it had too much top range.)
Thanks,
Yan
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Ph.D. Temple University ( Math )
Biked across the USA twice
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Bicycle delivery worker for Jimmy John's. Delivering is the best workout I have ever had.
#7
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A SDD hub is about 500g heavier than a Capreo hub with QR, yes. But I would not characterize it, given its functionality, as 'very heavy'.
As for creating gears that are not usable, well that depends on the design choices if you don't know what you are doing. If you do know what you are doing, you will adjust the chainring and max cog so you don't end up with useless gears, as my example attests. 18GI is a blessing when loaded and climbing steep volcanic gorges. It is far from 'not usable'.
As for creating gears that are not usable, well that depends on the design choices if you don't know what you are doing. If you do know what you are doing, you will adjust the chainring and max cog so you don't end up with useless gears, as my example attests. 18GI is a blessing when loaded and climbing steep volcanic gorges. It is far from 'not usable'.
Last edited by Abu Mahendra; 03-12-17 at 07:56 PM.
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As for creating gears that are not usable, well that depends on the design choices if you don't know what you are doing. If you do know what you are doing, you will adjust the chainring and max cog so you don't end up with useless gears, as my example attests. 18GI is a blessing when loaded and climbing steeply.
Thanks,
Yan
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Ph.D. Temple University ( Math )
Biked across the USA twice
Semi-active chess player ( two time Bahamas National Champion )
Sivananda ( Bahamas ) Trained Yoga instructor ( 2013 ) and ThetaHealer since 2013
Bicycle delivery worker for Jimmy John's. Delivering is the best workout I have ever had.
#9
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I don't follow. A roadbike with a 53/39T crankset will max out at about 130GI. What size chainring with a 406 wheel, 11T cog & SDD would be needed to reach 130GI? 56T. What size with an 9T Capreo cog? 62T
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60T will do it on a 20" 406 wheel, but the 16" needs alot more. I'm looking at the low gear with 11-34 cassette, I couldn't use much less than 25 gear inches.
Thanks,
Yan
Thanks,
Yan
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Semi-active chess player ( two time Bahamas National Champion )
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Bicycle delivery worker for Jimmy John's. Delivering is the best workout I have ever had.
Designer of Downtube Folding Bike
Ph.D. Temple University ( Math )
Biked across the USA twice
Semi-active chess player ( two time Bahamas National Champion )
Sivananda ( Bahamas ) Trained Yoga instructor ( 2013 ) and ThetaHealer since 2013
Bicycle delivery worker for Jimmy John's. Delivering is the best workout I have ever had.
#11
Senior Member
On most other folding bikes I find gears are way too low to be useful in most descents.
Anyway, If you feel the range is too much, you can always switch to a 11-28 cassette and enjoy less gaps between gears.
#12
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To put in in perspective, a SDD hub is 960g, an Alfine around 1,500g and a Rohloff around 1,950g.
#13
The Recumbent Quant
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I understand the internals were well made ( according to Sheldon Brown ), and maybe I was feeling lots of fresh new grease packed inside. Regardless touching and feeling it was a big turn off for me.
FYI a wide range cassette 11-42 or 11-44 is lighter, cheaper, probably much more efficient, and gives all the gears I would ever need for a small wheel bike. I'll take a wide cassette over a DD any day.
Thanks,
Yan
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Ph.D. Temple University ( Math )
Biked across the USA twice
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Bicycle delivery worker for Jimmy John's. Delivering is the best workout I have ever had.
#15
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Yan, I don't get it. You spec your bikes with Alfines, which are a good 550g heavier than a SDD. And we don't hear you or others bemoan that. When you add up the coget and RD, a SDD is about the same weight as an Alfine, but much more smooth shifting and much wider range. How do you justify the weight and price of an Alfine on your Downtubes, while indicting the SDD? I share your liking for the newer wide range cogsets, but they are not a replacement for SDD. They are a replacement for the likes of the Alfines on your own Downtube models.
SDD hub: 960g
Zee RD: 250g
XT CS-M771 11-36T cogset: 340g
Range: 610%
TOTAL weight: 1,550g
Shimano Alfine 11-speed: 1,665g
Range: 409%
I can't feel the resistance in my SDD I. Perhaps you had the Mark I?
If all you need is the range of a 11-42T cogset, fine, but often the choice is not wide cogset vs. SDD. Once again, imagine a customer of yours wants/needs 18-110GI, how else are you going to get that gear range on a 406 wheel?
SDD hub: 960g
Zee RD: 250g
XT CS-M771 11-36T cogset: 340g
Range: 610%
TOTAL weight: 1,550g
Shimano Alfine 11-speed: 1,665g
Range: 409%
I can't feel the resistance in my SDD I. Perhaps you had the Mark I?
If all you need is the range of a 11-42T cogset, fine, but often the choice is not wide cogset vs. SDD. Once again, imagine a customer of yours wants/needs 18-110GI, how else are you going to get that gear range on a 406 wheel?
I loved the idea of Dual Drive until I purchased boxes of them from EPX 10-13 years ago. It was very heavy compared to a standard hub. Additionally I could feel the resistance in the hub, it was not smooth. I searched for the efficiency rating, but never found anything. I kept one DD for myself and built it up with an electric blue rim, but I never used it. I doubt I'll ever use it.
I understand the internals were well made ( according to Sheldon Brown ), and maybe I was feeling lots of fresh new grease packed inside. Regardless touching and feeling it was a big turn off for me.
FYI a wide range cassette 11-42 or 11-44 is lighter, cheaper, probably much more efficient, and gives all the gears I would ever need for a small wheel bike. I'll take a wide cassette over a DD any day.
Thanks,
Yan
I understand the internals were well made ( according to Sheldon Brown ), and maybe I was feeling lots of fresh new grease packed inside. Regardless touching and feeling it was a big turn off for me.
FYI a wide range cassette 11-42 or 11-44 is lighter, cheaper, probably much more efficient, and gives all the gears I would ever need for a small wheel bike. I'll take a wide cassette over a DD any day.
Thanks,
Yan
Last edited by Abu Mahendra; 03-18-17 at 04:34 PM.
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Yan, I don't get it. You spec your bikes with Alfines, which are a good 550g heavier than a SDD. And we don't hear you or others bemoan that. When you add up the coget and RD, a SDD is the same weight as an Alfine, but much more smooth shifting and much wider range. How do you justify the weight and price of an Alfine on your Downtubes, while indicting the SDD?
I can't feels the resistance in my SDD I. Perhaps you had the Mark I?
If all you need is the range of a 11-42T cogset, fine, but often the choice is not wide cogset vs. SDD. Once again, imagine a customer of yours wants/needs 18-110GI, how else are you going to get that gear range on a 406 wheel?
I can't feels the resistance in my SDD I. Perhaps you had the Mark I?
If all you need is the range of a 11-42T cogset, fine, but often the choice is not wide cogset vs. SDD. Once again, imagine a customer of yours wants/needs 18-110GI, how else are you going to get that gear range on a 406 wheel?
I'm not sure what version DD hubs I had, I recall that I purchased about 50 units
Thanks,
Yan
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Ph.D. Temple University ( Math )
Biked across the USA twice
Semi-active chess player ( two time Bahamas National Champion )
Sivananda ( Bahamas ) Trained Yoga instructor ( 2013 ) and ThetaHealer since 2013
Bicycle delivery worker for Jimmy John's. Delivering is the best workout I have ever had.
#17
Senior Member
I share your liking for the newer wide range cogsets, but they are not a replacement for SDD. They are a replacement for the likes of the Alfines on your own Downtube models. Wide cogset vs. SDD - false choice
SDD hub: 960g
Zee RD: 250g
XT CS-M771 11-36T cogset: 340g
Range: 610%
TOTAL weight: 1,550g
Shimano Alfine 11-speed: 1,665g
Range: 409%
Range 11-46T cogset: 418%
An Alfine 11 is heavier, more expensive than a SDD drivetrain offering a wider range. A wide cogset is lighter, cheaper and offers ag least as much range as an Alfine. The real question is not why SDD, but rather why Alfine. The real porker given the weight-to-performance, and weight-to-price ratios is the Alfine.
Some of these conclusions also apply to Rohloff which is even heavier and much, more expensive.
SDD hub: 960g
Zee RD: 250g
XT CS-M771 11-36T cogset: 340g
Range: 610%
TOTAL weight: 1,550g
Shimano Alfine 11-speed: 1,665g
Range: 409%
Range 11-46T cogset: 418%
An Alfine 11 is heavier, more expensive than a SDD drivetrain offering a wider range. A wide cogset is lighter, cheaper and offers ag least as much range as an Alfine. The real question is not why SDD, but rather why Alfine. The real porker given the weight-to-performance, and weight-to-price ratios is the Alfine.
Some of these conclusions also apply to Rohloff which is even heavier and much, more expensive.
Thanks for the question. I see things differently, the Alfine is a pure internal hub ( DD is in a different class IMHO ). People like internal hubs & belt systems, hence I supply them. I see the DD as a freehub based option, and I think wide cassettes are better, especially for small wheels. These new cassettes systems are lighter and give a nice gear range for small wheels, and you can shift under load ( internal hub systems don't like that ).
I'm not sure what version DD hubs I had, I recall that I purchased about 50 units
Thanks,
Yan
I'm not sure what version DD hubs I had, I recall that I purchased about 50 units
Thanks,
Yan
Last edited by Abu Mahendra; 03-18-17 at 05:02 PM.
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Abu,
The majority of my internal hub customers require a belt drive for use on a boat. These customers are not looking for a cassette/freehub solution. DD can't use a belt, hence I see it differently.
I have never used a low gear under 25 and I have climbed some amazingly steep hills. I lived the the Virgin Islands, which had the steepest climbs I have ever seen. I climbed everything with a 28 or so. Outside of mini's I have never had a bike with a low gear under 25 ( not including mistakes at the factory ). I provide my customers with the things I like in a bike such as: suspension, low gears, quality components. I don't t know that I have ever needed a gear as low as 18 so I am not looking to provide that.
Please understand as I grow, and learn my lineup will change. I am currently sharing my perspective as of today.
Thanks,
Yan
The majority of my internal hub customers require a belt drive for use on a boat. These customers are not looking for a cassette/freehub solution. DD can't use a belt, hence I see it differently.
I have never used a low gear under 25 and I have climbed some amazingly steep hills. I lived the the Virgin Islands, which had the steepest climbs I have ever seen. I climbed everything with a 28 or so. Outside of mini's I have never had a bike with a low gear under 25 ( not including mistakes at the factory ). I provide my customers with the things I like in a bike such as: suspension, low gears, quality components. I don't t know that I have ever needed a gear as low as 18 so I am not looking to provide that.
Please understand as I grow, and learn my lineup will change. I am currently sharing my perspective as of today.
Thanks,
Yan
__________________
Designer of Downtube Folding Bike
Ph.D. Temple University ( Math )
Biked across the USA twice
Semi-active chess player ( two time Bahamas National Champion )
Sivananda ( Bahamas ) Trained Yoga instructor ( 2013 ) and ThetaHealer since 2013
Bicycle delivery worker for Jimmy John's. Delivering is the best workout I have ever had.
Designer of Downtube Folding Bike
Ph.D. Temple University ( Math )
Biked across the USA twice
Semi-active chess player ( two time Bahamas National Champion )
Sivananda ( Bahamas ) Trained Yoga instructor ( 2013 ) and ThetaHealer since 2013
Bicycle delivery worker for Jimmy John's. Delivering is the best workout I have ever had.