grumpus

Less than a mm is good enough (with some rims it's the best you can hope for) and less than 1/4 turn doesn't make any real difference. Then stress the wheel and check it again.

Unca_Sam

It can be frustrating when a wheel is close to final tension and your minor adjustments don't seem to have any effect. It's usually because the spoke is twisting, especially if you're working on an old wheel where the spoke prep is dried out or non-existent. The penetrating lube will help prevent the worst of it, but I also feel the twist on the spoke with my non-wrench hand to gauge when I'm actually adding tension rather than just twisting. You can unwind the twist after the adjustment, but riding the wheel can do that too, usually with much pinging and twanging.

mpetry912 

I have a PK Lie truing stand that has non linear deflection guages (NOT dial indicators) and allows you to true to a tolerance of .25 mm

it's a wonderful instrument but there are imperfections in the rim extrusions that are bigger than that !

and when you go over the bump at the end of your driveway it will be out of true by more than that.

So grumpus comment above about knowing when good enough is good enough is sage advice.

Wheel building is an art when done well. Good for you for jumping in and trying it.

a collection of spoke wrenches, including Campagnolo on the lower right.

/markp

SkinGriz

This might sound crazy…

I don’t see why a truing stand can’t be made out of 2x4’s. Then use the bike chain stays for fine tuning.

Mtracer

You can certainly make your own truing stand. But they need to be adjustable for various wheel/hub widths. As well as being able to adjust the reference point that is held near the rim to deal with various wheel diameters and rim widths.

I've also attached an option to my stand that allows me to true a brake disc.

And sure, plenty of people have just flipped their bike upside down and taped or otherwise attached something to the bike to reference the rim against. Or just used the brake pads on a rim-brake bike.

It just comes down to convenience and how often you use it. Some people will bend over backwards to avoid buying a specialty tool or would rather spend time making their own. Others would rather spend their time on the job they really want to complete and don't mind buying a tool. Different strokes for different folks.

In my case, I bought a truing stand. But I made my own dishing tool.

mpetry912 

two by fours. Right. why not wet kleenex ?

the problem is dimensional stability. The structure you're using as a reference should be at least as rigid and stable as the wheel you're working on. Preferably MORE rigid and stable.

my wheel building mentor used a home brew stand made out of steel angle iron (erector set type stuff) and he was good with it.

for modern bikes with a range of wheel diameters, over lock nut dimensions, and thru-axles, a more sophisticated fixture works best.

I estimate that the PK Lie truing stand cuts my build time by 30 % and produces a measurably better result, based on lower runout in both lateral and radial dimensions, as well as more even spoke tension.

But what do I know ?

/markp

kcjc

Truing a wheel, concept-wise, is not that difficult. Actual application, let's just say I taco a wheel before learning the need to check for and how to judge spoke tension by hand (a gen 1, late 80s, Trek Matrix V shaped rim that was just garbage). Get a feel of the spoke tension on the wheels and hope the one is still in good shape. Get a quality spoke wrench. The $5 wrench will just cause you headaches, frustrations, and more money in the end when you bring the wheel to your LBS for further work. Sound like the wheels haven't had regular attention. I would soak the spokes with lube first. Good luck.

79pmooney

I have a cheap 40 year old bent flatbar stand with flexy arms. Two slots that handle everything from 100 OLD front wheels to 120-130 OLD rears. A bent flatbar dishing tool that I modified the plunger to reach under nuts nuts and QRs. The standard colored Park spoke wrenches. Bent spoke with reversed nipple nipple-starters. Not quite as fast as the best. I cannot use the stand as a reference nor as a dish check but these tools work just fine to make very good wheels in not a lot of time (if my head's on straight).

I do not even want something like the Park stand that is large and doesn't break down for storage. I already have too many big tools and those ones aren't leaving. (Bench vise, drill press, table saw ... Things that allow me to make things better than I ever could before I owned them as well as saving me a lot of time. A better truing stand would only save me a little time and would not make my bikes any better.)

mpetry912 

Mooney, you CAN use the stand as a dish check !

just flip the wheel over and true to the same reference. When you flip it, the difference in "dish" will be HALF the distance measured to the same reference if that makes sense.

try it. your dishing tool is the final arbiter, but by flipping the wheel you will "converge" on the proper dish by alternately truing from the right, and then the left side.

/markp

Unca_Sam

Yeah, second this.

I have a Feedback sports one-armed truing 'stand' I've built wheels with, and I flip the wheel for gross dishing/centering checks. I'm particular about completing jobs though, so I'll also use a table, a set of identical drinking glasses, and my digital calipers to compare the distance the lower locknut is from the table top, vs the distance when the wheel is flipped. I'll adjust my indicator back or out by 1/2 the difference between the measurements and move the rim to the indicator, either by alternately loosening and tightening for a front wheel, or by trying to adjust only the NDS on a rear (since by that point I've worked pretty hard to equalize the tension on the DS spokes).

For the OP:

There are countless refinements and techniques that build stronger wheels faster and more reliably, but you can get easily make a reliable repair to a wheel with a fixed reference point, a spoke wrench, and a fingernail to strum the spokes with. I'm happy you were successful with your repair!

grumpus

With sticky spokes I just tighten a half turn then loosen a quarter turn, or vice versa, to remove most of the twist. After truing, stress the wheel on the floor (or on your fancy schmantzy pneumatic stressing table) then check it again. If it pings when you ride it, you didn't stress it enough to release wind-up during truing and you'll need to check it again anyway.

79pmooney

The wheel doesn't sit consistently in the stand. It isn't worth my time to try to make it do so. Much faster to just pull the wheel and use the dishing tool. (Especially after you factor in the time spent dishing to a location that turned out not to be correct.) Trust me. I've been using this cheap stand a long time. And I've built wheels on Parks and the like where what you say works beautifully.

mpetry912 

the self centering on the Park TS-2 is "just OK"

gets you in the ballpark.

but if the wheel does not sit consistently in the stand, and you're building wheels seriously or frequently

seems to me that is a problem worth solving

/markp

79pmooney

I build maybe a half dozen wheels a year. Boom years last and this as I redo most of my bikes as tubular but the usual is for Pacific NW rim replacement. No great need for a better stand and I am trying to downsize and minimize landfill contributions so I'll just make do. Not a hardship.

Gresp15C

I'm in the same boat. My house is full. I don't want to buy more tools. (I'd rather buy more musical instruments, but that's another matter). A stand that I made from plywood scraps serves for the tiny number of wheels that I build or maintain, and it folds for storage. A better stand won't make my wheels better, but better technique, experience, and patience will.

I'd never wish it on a pro.

cyccommute 

Everyone says this about the Park truing stands but I’ve never found it to be true. The stand needs to be checked from time to time and may need some adjustment. Park has discontinued the 1554 centering tool but the instructions for adjusting the truing stand can be found here. There are numerous centering tools out there that are adequate.

But, overall, my personal one never needs adjustment. Somehow the ones at the co-op are always out of adjustment…probably because someone (else) keeps trying to “adjust” them and have no idea how to do it.

Camilo

I would bet it can be done and if you search, I'd be surprised that someone hasn't done it and posted online instructions.

You can certainly make a very functional dishing tool out of common lumber and hardware. I made one like the one this guy shows, and also (later) got the Park Tool one for free. They work equally well.

Crankycrank

How to make your own truing stand or use your bike frame to true wheels. (1) make your own bicycle wheel truing stand - YouTube

urbanknight

About 15 years ago, another member here started a huge argument with me over this and said that every truing stand required the use of s dishing tool because "that's the way it's always been done". I couldn't find the directions you just posted here, so he called them a "pirate map" and said they didn't exist. My TS-2 did go out of adjustment eventually, but only after it was knocked around, taken on the road for events, piled in storage, etc. for many years.

dedhed

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Road Fan

I agree with lubing old spokes, but not soaking them with any lubricant. You should get a small amount into the threads and into the nipple/rim interface. A small drop of TriFlow from the needle applicator bottle is enough. The reason for not soaking them is dripping onto the spokes from the over-wetted nipples. It's really common to have to hold the spoke with one hand while you twist the nipple with the other. If you"re gonna turn each spoke ¼ turn, you need that ¼ to be actual nipple turning rather than the nipple making the spoke twist. You need to hold that spoke with your fingers, which becomes more challenging if the spoke shaft is oily, soapy, or greasy. There is a $30 Park Tool for this purpose and I like it, but we are talking beginners here.

kcjc

Soak may not be the best word choice but it was what we used in the shop and we are talking beginners here who might take it literally (e.g. dip the whole wheel in a tub of oil). As you indicated, moderate use of the lubricant and give it time to get into the threads. On the old beaters I used to work on in the college bike shop, you put some on and let it sit for a while, sometime overnight. Aka soak.

Road Fan

Thanks! I've seen very smart play in bike shops, and some not so smart. Thanks for helping me out! I have some terrible memories of trying to help fellow students with absolute rustbuckets at my first college dorm!

cyccommute 

If nothing else, it just requires turning the wheel around to check the dish. The Park stands have spring mounted feeler arms so it’s easy to pull a wheel out and turn it around even with a tire mounted.

urbanknight

He argued against that as well, even though that’s basically what you do with a dishing tool.