cyccommute 

Lots of people pooh-pooh chain gauges but how accurate does the measurement have to be? A “tricky” measurement means that there is lots of room for doing the measurement imprecisely which makes the result less accurate. The chain checker tools may show premature wear (although I have my doubts about that) but at least it is more consistent. Chains are relatively cheap and replacing one early is far better than replacing one too late.

There’s many more places for the ruler measurement to go wrong than the chain checker method as well. Looking at 10 wheels post 17, the measurement is off because he isn’t measuring from the center of the pin because hanging the chain like that puts “0 inches” off center. That will throw off the measurement unless you take that into account. I also noticed that the picture is wrong. Chains are measured across 12” of chain. His picture only shows 11”. You can just barely see the 13” mark and that shows that the chain has zero wear.

GamblerGORD53

This last time I put on a new chain, I left the original lube. No stretch after 1,800 miles.
It's an IGH SS 1/8" with a chain cover. I was using White lightning dry lube that I hear is the worst. It was going 3/32 in 3,000 miles.

tduncan86

I too ride a lot on gravel and found that if I use wax instead of oil to lube my chains, they do last a lot longer - probably because dust and grit does not accumulate.
Regular checks with chain checker show little 'stretch' (less than 0.5%) but after some 4000 to 6000kms the shifting performance degrades and changing the chain becomes warranted.
It seems to be that the side plate interfaces allow more side to side play over time even tho the overall length has not changed, and nice crisp shifting is no longer.

skookum

Is there any point in getting a more expensive chain, do they last any longer than the cheap ones?
Obviously the main issue is what kind of surfaces you ride on and how you maintain your chain.

djb

Ive sometimes thought of getting an actual chain wear gauge, but just never get around to it mostly because its easy just to do the measuring with what I have---but yes, user error and ease of use with a gauge certainly makes sense--and yes, its always going to be bad to replace too late----which I hope is the message that gets across to those who think its fine to just leave em until they skip.
but hey, its their money if they continue to believe that.

cyccommute 

I’ve never heard anyone say that the chain checker tools over estimate mileage. Most often the complaint is that the checkers underestimate mileage and require premature replacement.

Crankycrank

My experience as well with many chains.

pdlamb

I've not seen a difference, perhaps because I've stopped partway up the price curve. But ISTM that, unless you buy a really cheap chain that wasn't correctly hardened, most of the wear is going to come from dirt, sand, dust, etc. that gets into your chain. Keeping a chain fairly clean (which, in my world, means wiping it off after the first two or three rides post-lube) will reduce, but not eliminate, some of the grit that gets between the pins and the side plates which is where the wear occurs. Metal on metal wear will polish the bearing surface, but I suspect it isn't likely to "stretch" the chain.

When I tried waxing chains, I thought it was possible that (a) the melting wax would displace all the grit, and (b) the wax that remained would block ingress of said grit. It didn't work (those chains lasted just as long as the oiled chains), and the chains rusted with rain and heavy dew, and waxing was fussy, so I went back to conventional lube.

skookum

I used to buy $8 chains for my winter commuter, and I would just put a new one on every fall. They probably only had a couple hundred kilometers on them as my commute was short and in fair weather and good road conditions I would use another bike.

I tried waxing too, but it seemed more work than it was worth on those cheap chains.

I am just wondering if there is any difference in longevity between a $15 chain and $30 chain, given the same maintenance program.

vane171

To chip in, I think riding out of saddle, especially uphill adds to chain wear ( likely nobody does that for long stretches though) but probably even worse is cros-chaining, which doesn't have to be extreme, especially if its habitual for someone to ride in mild cross-chaining longer distances (happens on .some type of terrain and riding style, like touring, sporting ride, etc.).

'Chain speed' also is probably a large factor (higher speed means faster wear) and for more expensive chains, it depends if the cost of the chain is due to some performance gain (includes weight), or durability. Usually those two are opposite attributes.

I wonder what people do with those old chains that accumulate on their hands. Maybe some interesting projects might be made of them. Also I believe those chains would serve many more years on those run of the mill clunker bikes that people ride in a very non-demanding fashion, those that never see any maintenance on chain, but often in such cases, the chain last the bike life span anyway.

cyccommute 

I use liquid wax lubricant which really isn’t that much different from hot wax...it’s just much easier to apply. I don’t get any more...or less...mileage than people who use oil-based wax on average. I’ve thought a lot about this and I have a hypothesis about what is happening. With oil based lubricant, the main wear issue is grit. The grit sticks to the outside of the chain and any particles small enough to get through the gaps in the chain get pumped into the chain and cause wear. Because the oil is constantly moved around, the grit constantly get pumped into the chain.

With wax, the grit doesn’t really stick like it can with oil. The lack of mobility of the lubricant means that the grit doesn’t get pumped into the chain but the lack of mobility of the lubricant means that the contact points don’t get refreshed. That also means that there is more metal to metal contact so the chain wears just the same.

There’s two different mechanisms for the wear to occur but the results are the same...the chain wears out at about the same rate. An interesting experiment would be to do oil, wax (either hot or liquid), and no lube. The problem is that it would probably be a multi-year project. It would need to be run in triplicate in random order. Unfortunately, that’s going to cover the better part of 80,000 to 90,000 miles (3 conditions x 3 times each x 3000 to 3500 miles, 4 conditions if hot and liquid wax are used). It’d be double that if separated into road and mountain bike. That’s a lot of riding!

davidad

https://www.sheldonbrown.com/brandt/...care.htmlYears ago I found one of Brandt's web sites and tried his suggestion. At first I cleaned the chain in unscented mineral spirits and lubed with Pro Link lube. Later I mixed my own with 1 part chainsaw bar oil to 4 parts mineral spirits. My chains lasted between 5500 and 6000 miles. I bought an ultrasonic cleaner and began using it. My chain life went up by a factor of three. If I find the black metal filings than come from the pin wear a problem I wipe the chain with a cloth and ride. I clean my chains every 800 miles or so. While the chain is being cleaned my bike is in the stand and I check out and fix anything that shows up.
I measure and replace the chains at 1/16" wear. I ride 8 speed and seven speed drive trains. Both of my bikes are steel from 2000 and 2001.

skookum

What solvent are you using in the ultrasonic cleaner? How many iterations do you have to do to get a clean chain?
I bought one and I have used it a few times but i can never get my chain as clean and sparkly as the videos.

davidad

I use 50% solution of Simple and run my cleaner for about 20 minutes. The bottom of the cleaner has fine particles in it after the cleaning cycle. I rinse the chain in water then either dry it in the sun or my oven, put it back on the bike and lube the chain while turning the crank backwards, then wipe off the excess.

The model I have looks like this one. https://www.vevor.com/products/stain...20group%20%231

djb

this seems completely logical to me as well.
I can't recall what liquid wax lube you use, whats the name?
I would like to try it out sometime. Ive tried all kinds of chain lubes over the decades, even tried the melted wax thing, but not the type of stuff you use.
cheers

skookum

What is Simple? I have the same cleaner. What temp do you set it at?

bbbean 

Remember that Bicycling Magazine is a publication paid for by advertising that caters to beginning riders. It makes sense for them to recommend frequent parts replacements for users who probably don't service their gear very well and who will buy from the magazine's advertisers.

A well maintained and lubricated chain will last a lot longer than 2500 miles. In my own experience, I get 4000-5000 miles from a chain. I just recently started waxing my chains, and my friends who wax tell me they get roughly twice that mileage from their chains.

Crux of the matter - measure the chain and pay attention to your shifting. Your chain will let you know when it's time to replace it.

easyupbug 

I also use Simple Green and only have heat on or off on my very old lab machine. I do have a piece of perforated rubber/plastic floor pad on the bottom of the cleaner to let those particles get far away from my parts. It also stops vibration wear spots on parts that rest on the metal bottom of the cleaner.

cyccommute 

I’ve used White Lightning Clean Ride the most. I am currently also using Rock ‘N’ Roll Gold and Red. I don’t see any significant difference between all three. They all go on easily and leave a dry chain.

White Lightning’s suggestion of every 100 miles is far to frequently in my experience as well. I can go from 300 up to 700 miles between applications. The chain is little noisier...not a squeak but a kind of a rumbling noise...even after fresh application than oil based lubricants but I’m willing to put up with noise to avoid cleaning the drivetrain all the time. This chain has about 1000 miles on it and hasn’t been cleaned since the chain was installed.






The chainrings, by the way, have far more than 1000 miles on them and you can see that they are very clean.

LV2TNDM

One chain will vary considerably in its lifespan given different riders and conditions. A 95 pound rider on a road bike in pristine conditions who is meticulous with chain care will get TONS of mileage out of a chain. A large tandem couple that doesn't "soft pedal" during shifts and rides in the worst, muddy, gritty conditions and doesn't clean & lube their drive train will get HARDLY ANY mileage out of a chain or chains.

And then there are different chains; some last longer, others wear out quickly.

Simply MEASURE YOUR CHAIN wear! There's no simple "every XX months" rule that would apply. Plus, if you have multiple bikes and follow this rule, you'll be replacing several chains too frequently and probably several too infrequently.

And all you need is a ruler. Really simple. Just measure 12" EXACTLY: pin center (or edge) to same is EXACTLY 12" on a new chain. When it exceeds 1/16" replace. Simple. Do this to extend cassette and small chain ring lives. Keeps shifting good as well. (And if your eyes are going bad, measure 24" and use 1/8" as your threshold.)

I've worn out an expensive chain in five months (with good care), and had medium-price chains last over a decade.

LV2TNDM

The problem today is that 12 speed cassettes now range in price from about $100 to $400, with the average in the $200-$250 range. Plus, you're only using one ring these days, and they're small, so they'll wear out too. Add $50-$85. A $40-$60 chain every 6 months to a year is a no-brainer. Chains wear, that's a fact. No need to bring down other components at the same time if you don't have to. If you cannot afford chain replacement when necessary, how could you afford a $5-8k full suspension bike? Pick a cheaper sport! And by all means, AVOID sports like auto racing or private aircraft!

LV2TNDM

There doesn't seem to be a direct correlation between price and durability. However, extra steps in the production process SHOULD improve durability such as heat treating and applying coatings. In general, I've found the fully plated chains to offer the longest life. But this is based on anecdotal experience on my part.

It would be really nice to see objective chain wear tests performed to give consumers unbiased data to choose durable chains. Problem is, in this economy and product cycle environment, it may be of little value, because once a certain chain has been tested and deemed excellent, it goes out of production!

davidad

Sorry about that. Simple Green. 50 degrees C.

skookum

Thanks. I will have to try that.

rbrides

Redirecting this thread to chain lube vs wax.
I appreciate the many contributions to my original post.

what about waxing? I’ve always used either Tri-Flow lube or Finish Line (dry and wet). Finish Line is “wax like”.

What do you folks use and what are the pros and cons of wax?

inquiring minds want to know.