GCN proves 90s Trek bike as fast as $10k aero super bike
08-07-19, 05:27 PM
#51
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For some they do. It is disingenuous for the op to post that two bikes are just as fast in the title and then talk about about how one is almost as fast as the other in the rest of the posts.
Last edited by colnago62; 08-07-19 at 05:31 PM.
08-07-19, 06:01 PM
#54
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Mostly that GCN test proves that you can't fairly compare bikes that aren't the right size for both riders. Si is taller and looked like he was riding a clown bike on the borrowed aero bike.
The comparison might have been more relevant if each had ridden his own personal best bike.
But I don't care. GCN videos are always entertaining anyway.
The comparison might have been more relevant if each had ridden his own personal best bike.
But I don't care. GCN videos are always entertaining anyway.
08-07-19, 09:03 PM
#55
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Times are only one part of the equation. There's something to be said about material and geometry that leads to less rider fatigue.
That's a bit harder to measure.
That's a bit harder to measure.
08-08-19, 05:49 AM
#57
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Yeah, probably. Does your position have any more drop than his?
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08-08-19, 06:37 AM
#58
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If I'm following, OP is supposed to be some type of troll? I don't hang around here enough to know who's who. But I'm going to provide a bit of practical real world experience that I think illustrates that all the hand-wringing over wheels/weight for a lot of cyclists is a bit overblown. Recently, I rode a loop on my entry level Allez, stock rims. The same day and within a few minutes of my own ride (I started at 11:41am and he started the loop at 11:49), a friend of mine who is an accomplished masters racer with a carbon bike and carbon aero wheels. He and I are about the same size and build. I completed the loop in 37:52 averaging 212w (max 558w), he completed the loop in 38:10 also averaging 212w (max 565w). I don't know his NP, but I can't imagine it would be much different, we were both doing steady endurance and no interval work. This is probably as close to a real life experiment one can get and the difference likely came to my body position vs his. So I do think in quite a few cases, folks are spending a lot of money for almost no perceptible gain.
08-08-19, 07:17 AM
#60
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I would doubt my position would be lower than his, at the time I still had my stock 100mm stem at the -6 degree angle and not a lot of saddle-bar drop, so if anything I would naturally be more upright. After a year of owning my bike I finally changed to 115mm (also -6 degree). He probably has a more aggressive position due to his being a specialty crit guy, so who knows what was going on that day with our riding or maybe just small differences in NP.
I've been down the road of looking at gear for marginal gains, and I love geeking out, but for me the gear and even speed is secondary to watts and doing what it takes to improve my watts at various durations.
I've been down the road of looking at gear for marginal gains, and I love geeking out, but for me the gear and even speed is secondary to watts and doing what it takes to improve my watts at various durations.
08-08-19, 07:45 AM
#61
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They also didn't try to measure differences in acceleration, where I expect the gains from the superbike are even more significant and at least as important in a bike race. The point of the video seemed to be to reassure us slow old pikers that we don't need to spend a lot of money on a superbike and can just keep riding our trusty old C&V frames with some new parts every once in a while, which is what we have been doing anyway. The only difference is that we normally don't repaint so we can preserve the "patina", which for me at least is just an excuse not to go to the trouble or expense of repainting an old bike frame.
08-08-19, 05:39 PM
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There's a perception among many recreational cyclists that a huge difference in speed exists between a modern, expensive, aero bike and a heavier/older/less aero bike. Last week I was riding with a bunch of guys with my hybrid-convert-to-drop-bar commuter road bike, and doing just fine. At the end of the ride one of the guys commented something like, "you were able to keep up with that bike?" He himself rode an expensive Cervelo S-something with aero wheels. So tests like the ones on GCN shouldn't surprise anyone.
08-08-19, 06:45 PM
#63
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"There's a perception among many recreational cyclists that a huge difference in speed exists between a modern, expensive, aero bike and a heavier/older/less aero bike."
I get people coming into the shop asking for an aero helmet all the time. After asking what TT's they have done and how their bike is outfitted, it becomes apparent they are looking for a cheap solution for increased speed. I almost always tell them to save their pennies and dimes, and get aero wheels. On a 15 mile course, the payoff will be noticeable. The helmet, no so, especially at the speed they are turning.
I get people coming into the shop asking for an aero helmet all the time. After asking what TT's they have done and how their bike is outfitted, it becomes apparent they are looking for a cheap solution for increased speed. I almost always tell them to save their pennies and dimes, and get aero wheels. On a 15 mile course, the payoff will be noticeable. The helmet, no so, especially at the speed they are turning.
08-09-19, 10:45 AM
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So what does the average 2.5-3k carbon disc bike weigh now coming from the factory? I'm looking at the Trek site now. It has the $3799.99 Domane listed at over 20lbs and the $2499.99 listed at nearly 20lbs. Neither with pedals, etc. It that about what it is across the different manufacturers? They've lost the weight advantage because of the disc braking systems? That doesn't seem like much of a reason to upgrade.
08-09-19, 11:05 AM
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My C3 was $4k. With hydraulic disc brakes, deep wheels, and heavy power meter pedals, it's 18 lbs.
08-09-19, 11:11 AM
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08-09-19, 11:14 AM
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So what does the average 2.5-3k carbon disc bike weigh now coming from the factory? I'm looking at the Trek site now. It has the $3799.99 Domane listed at over 20lbs and the $2499.99 listed at nearly 20lbs. Neither with pedals, etc. It that about what it is across the different manufacturers? They've lost the weight advantage because of the disc braking systems? That doesn't seem like much of a reason to upgrade.
08-09-19, 11:28 AM
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08-09-19, 11:30 AM
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I was wondering how those people that talked about how heavy a 20-21lbish bike is coped when they upgraded to a bike that was back in that weight range again. Seattle Forest answered my question. They don't, they shell out more coin to get a lighter bike.
08-09-19, 11:53 AM
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This is why I was asking. This bike weighed 22ish give or take a 1/4lb(I don't have the exact weight in front of me currently) as it is pictured. It was built up for a climbing ride I do yearly with a triple/11-38 8 speed cassette. Nothing particularly weight weenieish about it. If you're telling me I have to spend 3- 4k to see some real weight savings, that would be a hard sell. Sure, I would get some better braking, maybe some better shifting. But I could also spend a grand on a modern group, better wheelset, saddle, etc. and get it under 20lbs if that was really important to me. That's a decision each rider has to make.
Last edited by seypat; 08-09-19 at 12:00 PM.
08-09-19, 12:01 PM
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My Bianchi Oltre XR3 disc is 18lbs, which replaced a Bianchi 928 rim brake bike that was ~16.5lbs. I think I can get it back down in weight to the same range with about another $1k invested
08-09-19, 12:02 PM
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In the Domane’s case, I don’t think there is very much you can do to lighten it up. Mine has carbon bars and stem. Carbon saddle and 30 mm carbon wheelset. If you subtract 1lb. for the fenders, it still is a heavy bike compared to a lot of other road frames.
08-09-19, 12:03 PM
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08-09-19, 12:34 PM
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TBF the rim brake bike was pretty much upgraded everywhere too. I think the only things left stock on the frame were the seatpost and headset. Pretty sure the disc bike has more potential to weigh less as the frame is lighter too
