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Centurion Pro Tour 15 FD Problem

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Centurion Pro Tour 15 FD Problem

Old 10-14-19, 08:24 PM
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Sophylong
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Centurion Pro Tour 15 FD Problem

Hello all,

Getting back into cycling after many years away and I have forgotten almost everything I used to know! 10 years ago I had all the basic bicycle tools and basic know how, but at that time due to various life events I sold all the bikes and have seem to have forgotten how to trouble shoot.

Recently got back into riding for exercise and picked up a Centurion Pro Tour 15 for $40. It had a mix matched group set on it and so I went about mix matching it even more!

The biggest problem is the crank and FD. I had a compact FSA BB30 sitting around collecting dust which obviously wouldn't mount and also had a single speed I put together about 5 years ago that I held on to. The Centurion came with a square taper triple. I removed the triple and mounted the Sugino AT cranks on to the bike and the FSA had the same BCD so the rings went on too. The original FD is a clamp on and the only FD I had laying around was a 105 braze on so i left the original FD on.

The L limit screw adjusted outboard enough to engage the smaller ring but im having difficulty getting into the big ring. It went in 1 in 20 times or so during my test ride. H limit is maxed out. Im thinking the FD is a little high, but im not sure because I believe the original triple was also a 50 tooth. It looks like if the crank arm was about 2mm closer to the frame of the bike that would work too, but I feel like I shouldnt tighten it any further. Could it be a spindle length issue?

Everything else is working well. I had a full 105 10spd set, minus chain, sitting in a box in the garage so that all bolted on and has been adjusted. Funds are still tight so I'm hesitant to bring it into the LBS. Is there any hope for me!? Ive lost 17 pounds these past few months so I thought I deserved the $40 upgrade bike, but its turning into a bit of a nightmare.

I'd love to post a picture but apparently my post count is too low. I can email it to someone if they'd be able to post it for me.

V/R
Sophy
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Old 10-14-19, 08:53 PM
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Well, a Pro Tour 15 for $40 is quite the steal...that’s a great bike.

Just to be clear, what parts were taken off and what parts replaced them? Sounds as though the Sugino AT stayed in place with new rings and same spindle? What were the tooth counts before and after, 50t for old and new? The front derailleur cage outer plate should float a couple mm above the big chainring. Front derailleur low limit keeps the chain from dropping from the small chainring towards the frame, high front derailleur limit keeps the chain from dropping from the big chainring towards the pedals. Need to take chainline to the freewheel at both extremes into account.

Was the bike stock when you got it? Check the chain length per Sheldon Brown. Pics would really help. Keep posting!

Last edited by Sir_Name; 10-14-19 at 09:10 PM.
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Old 10-14-19, 09:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Sir_Name View Post
Well, a Pro Tour 15 for $40 is quite the steal...thatís a great bike.

Just to be clear, what parts were taken off and what parts replaced them? Sounds as though the Sugino AT stayed in place with new rings and same spindle? The front derailleur cage should float a couple mm above the big chainring. Was the bike stock when you got it? Check the chain length per Sheldon Brown. Pics would really help. Keep posting!
I thought $40 was a good deal too, which is why i jumped on it The Sugino cranks actually came off the single speed I referenced earlier. I do not believe the Centurion was stock. The parts replaced/removed we're:

-brake levers (replaced with 105 10spd Brifters)
-triple crank, replaced with Sugino ATs and FSA compact rings
-DT shifters removed and replaced with stops
-DP25 wheels(29ers?) replaced with Shimano RS
-quil stem replaced with 1 1/8 adapter and stem
-new handle bar
- toe clips/pedals with old DA clipless
- suntour? RD replaced with 105

Chain length seems good. I set the chain big to big and added two lengths. Has enough length and the space between the RD pulley chain section and chain stay chain section seem to have enough gap.

Thanks for looking!

Edit: regarding low limit, I understanda i adjusted the limit so it wouldn't fall towards the frame. The high I maxed out hoping to get a couple more millimeters towards the big chain side. Spindle and BB were left original.

Last edited by Sophylong; 10-14-19 at 09:10 PM.
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Old 10-14-19, 09:10 PM
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Pic assist

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Old 10-14-19, 09:17 PM
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Sounds like your BB spindle is too long on the drive side as you suspect. One cheap fix is to reverse that spindle, i.e., try what’s now on the non-drive side on the drive side.
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Old 10-14-19, 09:20 PM
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Originally Posted by nlerner View Post
Sounds like your BB spindle is too long on the drive side as you suspect. One cheap fix is to reverse that spindle, i.e., try whatís now on the non-drive side on the drive side.
I didn't even think of that! I guess I'll be watching YouTube videos tonight lol. May have to get some more tools, all I was able to find in my old boxes were a pedal wrench and crank puller
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Old 10-14-19, 10:05 PM
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I'd like to see a picture of the crank looking down from the top. I bet there's lots of clearance between the inner chainring and the chainstay, which would mean your bottom bracket spindle is too long. IMO it's easiest to experiment with different length spindles by trying different cartridge bottom brackets. Cup & cone BB's are OK, but they're a hassle to experiment with.
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Old 10-15-19, 07:22 AM
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Agree with others about the spindle length.
Was there something wrong with the triple? Why not just use that?
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Old 10-15-19, 07:40 AM
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That's a real beaut you have, great changes. I do agree with the others about the spindle check that over, it does look that the FD may be a tad high.
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Old 10-15-19, 07:45 AM
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Does your triple takeoff say "Aerox" on the arm? That's what was on my old Pro Tour. A top end SR crankset. Don
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Old 10-15-19, 08:13 AM
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Originally Posted by due ruote View Post
Agree with others about the spindle length.
Was there something wrong with the triple? Why not just use that?
NBothing wrong with the triple that I know of. It was one of those cases where I got "itchy hands" and couldn't leave well enough alone. Had spares parts sitting around and thought I'd make use of them.

Originally Posted by Mr. 66 View Post
That's a real beaut you have, great changes. I do agree with the others about the spindle check that over, it does look that the FD may be a tad high.
Thanks, I think it's coming along fairly well too. I will have to try adjusting the FD first when I get home.

Originally Posted by Jeff Wills View Post
I'd like to see a picture of the crank looking down from the top. I bet there's lots of clearance between the inner chainring and the chainstay, which would mean your bottom bracket spindle is too long. IMO it's easiest to experiment with different length spindles by trying different cartridge bottom brackets. Cup & cone BB's are OK, but they're a hassle to experiment with.
Currently at work, but I agree. From what I recall the spindle does seem to have quite a bit of space between the frame and crank arms. I'm hoping that the spindle is asymmetric and want to try flipping it first. Just need a little bit of time and see if I can get my hands on some additional tools.

Originally Posted by ollo_ollo View Post
Does your triple takeoff say "Aerox" on the arm? That's what was on my old Pro Tour. A top end SR crankset. Don
Oh that's good to know! I do believe it is marked AEROX, but won't be sure until I get home later this evening. To be honest, I just like the look of the compact more which is why I attempted the swap in the first place.
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Old 10-15-19, 08:29 AM
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You could get compact rings for the triple crank and run it as a compact double.
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Old 10-15-19, 08:51 AM
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Can't say for sure, because my Pro Tour was high mileage when I got it, but said to have all original equipment. It had SunTour VGT (Luxe?) derailleurs. With a new wheel set, it gave good service as my main Winter rain bike for about 10 years. Sold it to someone in Bellingham, WA. Don
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Old 10-15-19, 11:06 AM
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Sounds like a good buy! Do be aware that jamming a 10-speed rear wheel in there requires that the frame be cold set to the correct width and, more importantly, the dropouts need to be realigned. Otherwise, the stress placed on the rear dropout by clamping down on the quick release can eventually crack either the braze between the dropout and chainstay, or the dropout itself. This has happened to me and a number of folks on the forum.
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Old 10-15-19, 12:14 PM
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Best solution is to get cartridge bottom bracket to match the crankset you are using, I don't recall many japanese BB be asymetrical.....that was more of a campy thing....but that is memory

other observations

makes sure you can run Big Big combo. if you can't you need to lengthen the chain safety issue if you do not (fwiw I have moved to big big chain sizing method)

if that is a 120 spacing you really should coldset to 130mm, less an issue if it is 126mm spaceing

seat should be close to level.....lower seat post if needed
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Old 10-16-19, 08:49 AM
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Sorry for the late replies, I am limited to 5 responses in 24 hours currently.


Originally Posted by davester View Post
Sounds like a good buy! Do be aware that jamming a 10-speed rear wheel in there requires that the frame be cold set to the correct width and, more importantly, the dropouts need to be realigned. Otherwise, the stress placed on the rear dropout by clamping down on the quick release can eventually crack either the braze between the dropout and chainstay, or the dropout itself. This has happened to me and a number of folks on the forum.


Originally Posted by squirtdad View Post
Best solution is to get cartridge bottom bracket to match the crankset you are using, I don't recall many japanese BB be asymetrical.....that was more of a campy thing....but that is memory


other observations


makes sure you can run Big Big combo. if you can't you need to lengthen the chain safety issue if you do not (fwiw I have moved to big big chain sizing method)


if that is a 120 spacing you really should coldset to 130mm, less an issue if it is 126mm spaceing


seat should be close to level.....lower seat post if needed


Thank you for the warnings. I'll make sure to check the dropouts and stays for stress or cracks. When I purchased the bike it actually came with an 8spd rear wheel, which I believe is spaced at 130. I haven't checked alignment yet, but I'll do some rudimentary work with some string and see how that goes. The 10spd rear actually dropped right in without having to part the drops so I want to assume the previous owner cold set it. The brakes were also set up already for 700c. Looking at some pictures online the previous owner definitely made some changes to the bike's stock form and from the saddle and other changes I assume it was used primarily for long distance riding or touring. I'll have to measure the drop outs and confirm spacing. To be clear, the chain length WAS set big-big through the FD.


Regarding the original problem, I am happy to announce that the issue no longer exists! After cleaning the roof yesterday evening I got around to mucking around with the bike and made a few changes. The FD was actually around 3mm too high so that was lowered to the appropriate height. I was not able to find torque settings online for the crank to BB but decided to give the crank arm bolt 2/3 a turn more tightening. It does not appear or feel over tightened but managed to bring the arm inboard enough that the shifting now works beautifully with no chain rub except in extreme cross chain events.


Regarding saddle height and angle. That picture was from my first test ride and in my haste to get going I just eyeballed the saddle height and angle. It has now been adjusted. It actually needed to be about 4mm higher and pushed back slightly. No knee pains, and the angle of my knee at full extension seem about right. Unfortunately I haven't been able to go for an extended ride so that may change a little in the future.


Thank you to everyone who took the time to reply to my post! I truly appreciate it. All that's left is to clean up cabling and shorten the housing in a few places and go for some more rides! I'll take a few more pictures and throw it into that long running "vintage with ergo bar" thread too.


On a side note, if anyone here bought an Eddy Merckx Tianium AX with full DA and carbon wheels 14 years ago on EBAY I hope you are still riding it and would love some pictures of my old bike.
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