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Planning for Bike (Trek 1400) Restoration with Campy groupset

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Planning for Bike (Trek 1400) Restoration with Campy groupset

Old 12-03-19, 11:31 AM
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Cheez
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Planning for Bike (Trek 1400) Restoration with Campy groupset

Some real nice guy PMed me to encourage me to work on my bike myself instead of relying on LBS to save lots of $$$. So I looked at the universal bike tool kit for 30 bucks. I read the reviews from Amazon customers and they said some tools are made OK but the rest are junk...it's made of cheap materials and are not sturdy or durable. So I looked at some better quality bike toolset from "Bike Hand" for 80 bucks - https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B01N0...ACO5T769&psc=1
Would that be good enough to tear my bike apart (1992 Trek 1400 road bike)? I need to be able to take every thing off that frame so I can spray paint it before I finish upgrading to Campagnolo groupset.
Currently it has 1990 era Campy Athena crankset and bottom bracket, and a Chrous seatpost. I want to add following components:

- Campy Chorus 11 speed brake shift levers
- Campy Chorus 11 speed Front Derailleur
- Campy Super Record 11 Speed Rear Derailleur (Short version)
- Campy Record cable set
- Campy Chorus 11 speed chain
- Campy Chorus 11 speed cassette
- Campy Record HR Rear Hub
- Spokes for building a rear wheel

I want to build my own rear wheel with campy record and reuse my current rear rim...that rim looks sexy so I want to mate it with Campy Record hub. Never built a wheel before nor the bike. Will this tool be enough to do all this work? I am not sure how Campy chain install will work out... Does it need a special Campy-specific tool to do that? Or can it be done with this Bike Hand toolset?

I looked at Campy 11 spd chain tool and it's insanely expensive
- https://www.amazon.com/Campagnolo-Ch...RV7A8QWJHYCKN2

This Bike Hand toolset comes with Cassette install/removal tool for Shimano counterparts...will it work on Campy cassette?

If I can do all this myself I can save well over $1000.... that's a lot of dough.

Last edited by Cheez; 12-03-19 at 12:23 PM.
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Old 12-03-19, 12:22 PM
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Can I also reuse old spokes from my current wheel to build a wheel? How many spokes do I have? And if I need to purchase them is there a specific brand/model I need to get for road bikes? It's 700c wheels btw oh all this is getting complex...
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Old 12-03-19, 12:23 PM
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I started learning and doing the maintenance/mechanical work on my bikes close to 2 years ago. I had done basic maintenance, like cleaning and lubing, but that is all. I bought a set of tools and have added to them as the need has come up. I have learned a lot and become much confident in the process. Surely, there have been times of frustration and mistakes, but also, moments of accomplishment and self satisfaction.

I have now dismantled and stripped to the frame a couple of bikes. One is my present project, and the other, I bike I bought new 27 years ago, an Ochsner steel framed road bike. I had the frame and fork powder coated, and I rebuilt it with a combination of new and original components/parts. That, in the end, was a very satisfying experience.

A couple of observations: most tool kits come with some tools that you may never use; good quality tools are helpful, but for some things, cheap ones are fine; do not fear asking questions, often the stupidest question is the one not asked; sometimes you just need to walk away and come back later; be patient and selective in acquiring component, parts and supplies.

I spent more money on my first rebuild than I planned on and some of the things I purchased I either did not use, or used for a short while before changing. Having a vision of what you want to do, and how you want the bike to look is a great help. Take the time to think things over and ask for ideas and suggestions. In the end, it is all your decision, no one else's.

Challenge yourself, but have fun.

A picture of my first rebuild:

1992 Ochsner
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Old 12-03-19, 12:28 PM
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An addendum to observations: accept that you have limitations due to lack of experience and you do not have to do everything yourself, it is OK to get help or have an experienced person do things beyond your present capabilities. I have formed a relationship with the LBS closest to my home, that is a big plus.
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Old 12-03-19, 12:30 PM
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I have now dismantled and stripped to the frame a couple of bikes. One is my present project, and the other, I bike I bought new 27 years ago, an Ochsner steel framed road bike. I had the frame and fork powder coated, and I rebuilt it with a combination of new and original components/parts. That, in the end, was a very satisfying experience.

A picture of my first rebuild:

1992 Ochsner
Thanks for sharing your experience. That is a nice looking bike.
How do you raise up the handlebar post? I couldn't do mine for some reason. It doesn't raise up.. mine sits too low so it is discomforting..
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Old 12-03-19, 12:37 PM
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Originally Posted by delbiker1 View Post
An addendum to observations: accept that you have limitations due to lack of experience and you do not have to do everything yourself, it is OK to get help or have an experienced person do things beyond your present capabilities. I have formed a relationship with the LBS closest to my home, that is a big plus.
Thanks for the suggestion...yeah I'll probably take it to my LBS to maybe build a wheel... I want to reuse my old rim.
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Old 12-03-19, 02:54 PM
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"I want to build my own rear wheel with campy record and reuse my current rear rim...that rim looks sexy so I want to mate it with Campy Record hub. Never built a wheel before nor the bike. Will this tool be enough to do all this work?"
For a good wheel build you should have a truing stand, spoke tension gauge, the right spoke nipple tool, and your spokes have to be the correct length - so if there is a difference in flange diameter from the existing hub to the Campy you're going to run into problems if you just measure the existing ones. That also matters if you use a different lacing. Wheel building is a great skill to learn, but it takes tools, practice and is best done with a bit of coaching. Remember - it's more that just tightening spokes to keep the rim straight - the dish needs to be precise, and wheels have hops as well as wobbles.

"I am not sure how Campy chain install will work out... Does it need a special Campy-specific tool to do that? Or can it be done with this Bike Hand toolset?
I looked at Campy 11 spd chain tool and it's insanely expensive "
Campagnolo loves to create 1st world problems and offer 1% solutions. I have a Bike Nashbar "premium" chain tool and it works on every chain I've ever used. The one in the kit should work fine.

"This Bike Hand toolset comes with Cassette install/removal tool for Shimano counterparts...will it work on Campy cassette?"
it should... The spline is just a little bit different between the two, but a generic tool usually has enough margin that it will fit into either. I have a Campy specific tool that I still use on Shimano / SRAM cassettes.

Last edited by tgenec86; 12-03-19 at 05:18 PM.
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Old 12-03-19, 04:31 PM
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I do not know what kind of handlebar stem you have, but quill stems, like the one in the picture, generally have a bolt, top of the shaft, that extends through the shaft and down into the headtube, connected to an expansion nut. You merely loosen the bolt enough to pull the stem out of the headtube. Quill stems have a minimum insertion mark, the stem must be into the headtube to at least that mark to be safe. The stem in the picture is a Nitto Technomics with a shaft length of 180mm. That is why it can be raised high like it is. It is actually now lowered to be level with the top of the saddle.
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Old 12-03-19, 04:37 PM
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If this thread is for real, you could buy a frame appropriate Sora group and save more than enough to have a shop do the work that requires special tools.
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Old 12-03-19, 06:27 PM
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Originally Posted by tgenec86 View Post
For a good wheel build you should have a truing stand, spoke tension gauge, the right spoke nipple tool, and your spokes have to be the correct length - so if there is a difference in flange diameter from the existing hub to the Campy you're going to run into problems if you just measure the existing ones. That also matters if you use a different lacing. Wheel building is a great skill to learn, but it takes tools, practice and is best done with a bit of coaching. Remember - it's more that just tightening spokes to keep the rim straight - the dish needs to be precise, and wheels have hops as well as wobbles.
Wow that sounds complicated. Do you have to have a truing stand to true a wheel? I can't afford to buy a lot of tools to build my bike. I'm hoping to do by this Christmas or beginning of next year..

Campagnolo loves to create 1st world problems and offer 1% solutions. I have a Bike Nashbar "premium" chain tool and it works on every chain I've ever used. The one in the kit should work fine.
Thanks for the valuable info!

"This Bike Hand toolset comes with Cassette install/removal tool for Shimano counterparts...will it work on Campy cassette?"
it should... The spline is just a little bit different between the two, but a generic tool usually has enough margin that it will fit into either. I have a Campy specific tool that I still use on Shimano / SRAM cassette
Thanks again for the valuable info. This is very helpful to me.

Originally Posted by delbiker1 View Post
I do not know what kind of handlebar stem you have, but quill stems, like the one in the picture, generally have a bolt, top of the shaft, that extends through the shaft and down into the headtube, connected to an expansion nut. You merely loosen the bolt enough to pull the stem out of the headtube. Quill stems have a minimum insertion mark, the stem must be into the headtube to at least that mark to be safe. The stem in the picture is a Nitto Technomics with a shaft length of 180mm. That is why it can be raised high like it is. It is actually now lowered to be level with the top of the saddle.
Yeah I have a bolt on top of the handlebar post..I removed the bolt but it wouldn't budge.. I wonder it got stuck? Are there anything else I need to loosen?

Originally Posted by shelbyfv View Post
If this thread is for real, you could buy a frame appropriate Sora group and save more than enough to have a shop do the work that requires special tools.
Yes this thread is real and I am serious. I can't afford to buy a new frame....if I Buy a new frame I just buy an used Eddy Mercx Titanium frame bike on ebay... I need to keep my frame cause this bike is heirloom given to me by a family member.
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Old 12-03-19, 06:50 PM
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You need to respond to the "real nice guy", convince him to join you in the build. You are going to need some help.

Put the bolt back in a few turns, try tapping it with a dead blow hammer to loosen the wedge nut.
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Old 12-03-19, 07:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Cheez View Post
Wow that sounds complicated. Do you have to have a truing stand to true a wheel? I can't afford to buy a lot of tools to build my bike. I'm hoping to do by this Christmas or beginning of next year.


If you intend to truly build a wheel, then yes - it's not a simple task. Proper dishing keeps the wheel centered, tension is critical to keeping the wheel true and stable. Too loose and the wheel is unstable and flexy, too tight and it is easily damaged - broken spokes or nipples at best and can taco in a hard hit at worst. Correct length spokes ensure enough thread to hold firm, not so much the end protrudes and possibly puncture a tube. Spoke tension gauges are actually pretty inexpensive, as are basic truing stands - most have a built in offset to gauge the dish. The question is whether or not you can get the knack of it on your own and come up with a wheel that you trust bombing down a steep hill. I can recommend a book called "The Bicycle Wheel" by Jobst Brandt - it's been around a very, very long time but is just as pertinent now as it was when it was new. I'll bet you can find a used copy for just a couple dollars. I highly encourage you to look into it, even if that means finding an LBS with a wheel builder who is willing to talk to you about the artistry of wheel building.

It is a relatively simple task to do a basic true with the wheel on the bike - small adjustments (both tightening & loosening) in order to remove a wobble. However - if you have a hop (high spot) that requires working on the spokes on the opposite side of the rim as well as the area where the high spot is - and that is better done with a truing stand where you can precisely gauge the impact of the changes you make.
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Old 12-03-19, 07:43 PM
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Cheez, there are some really good videos for bike repair available online. Parktools.com has some really good ones. Youtube has a plethora of them, some good some not.www. RJ the bike guy.com has his own site and is on youtube. Explains things pretty well and he has some easy, inexpensive ways to make homemade tools for some things. Once again, some pretty good and some not so good.
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Old 12-03-19, 08:00 PM
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So you're going to do all this in a tent in the woods?
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Old 12-03-19, 10:40 PM
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Thanks guys for the info. I will think about it whether to build a wheel myself or have LBS do it..

Originally Posted by dedhed View Post
So you're going to do all this in a tent in the woods?
Yeah I know! It's gonna be difficult to work on a bike as I don't even have a bike stand... I can bring my bike inside the front room to work on it in my canopy tent it's 12x12 in size. I have a lady from the Out Reach trying to find me a temporary housing until they set me up for a permanent one. I don't know how soon it will happen though
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Old 12-04-19, 10:10 AM
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I decided to go with the Campy Potenza on the brake/shift levers and front derailleur...everything else will be Chorus and Record in the list in my first post. The Potenza shifter should work with the bigger brothers (Chorus & Record) right?

I was told by LBS that in order for Campy shifters and front derailleur to work properly you need Campy chainrings that are designed for it.. Is this true?? Is it because of the difference in size, ie number of teeth in the chainrings? Currently my chainrings are 1990 era Campy Athena 53/42 teeth. Will the 11 speed Campy shifter and front derailleur work on my current chainring? Both the small and large chainring??

Last edited by Cheez; 12-04-19 at 10:13 AM.
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Old 12-04-19, 02:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Cheez View Post
Can I also reuse old spokes from my current wheel to build a wheel? How many spokes do I have? And if I need to purchase them is there a specific brand/model I need to get for road bikes? It's 700c wheels btw oh all this is getting complex...
I would buy new spokes if you are rebuilding the wheel.
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Old 12-05-19, 04:50 AM
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I built this bike up completely bought off eBay, amazon etc. Maybe couple of spare garage parts (the saddle), and I had to replace a couple of cables. 8 speed Mirage/Chorus blend.

I recently switched it all over to this frame. Faster and more fun, but the steel fork is definitely less compliant on a badly-paved descent. I have more plans for this one, including a future move to 11-speed Athena.

Neither build was done with complicated tools. I had a 10ish year old tool kit that I got from Performance Bike that had most of what I need. The only specialist items out of it that I used were the crank puller and the freewheel remover. And, separately, a big spanner to tighten the threaded headset. Almost everything else can be done with a good multi-tool if you're patient enough.
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Old 12-05-19, 06:18 AM
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Originally Posted by Cheez View Post
I decided to go with the Campy Potenza on the brake/shift levers and front derailleur...everything else will be Chorus and Record in the list in my first post.
My sense of personal responsibility would have gone with leaving the functioning, perfectly good, existing drivetrain and saved the money for rent, so I could move out of a tent in the woods. YMMV
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Old 12-05-19, 07:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Cheez View Post
Thanks guys for the info. I will think about it whether to build a wheel myself or have LBS do it..


Yeah I know! It's gonna be difficult to work on a bike as I don't even have a bike stand... I can bring my bike inside the front room to work on it in my canopy tent it's 12x12 in size. I have a lady from the Out Reach trying to find me a temporary housing until they set me up for a permanent one. I don't know how soon it will happen though
Originally Posted by Cheez View Post
I decided to go with the Campy Potenza on the brake/shift levers and front derailleur...everything else will be Chorus and Record in the list in my first post.
It is always interesting to see how others in this hobby choose to prioritize and spend.
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Old 12-05-19, 10:02 AM
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Originally Posted by Leinster View Post

I recently switched it all over to this frame. Faster and more fun, but the steel fork is definitely less compliant on a badly-paved descent. I have more plans for this one, including a future move to 11-speed Athena.

Neither build was done with complicated tools. I had a 10ish year old tool kit that I got from Performance Bike that had most of what I need. The only specialist items out of it that I used were the crank puller and the freewheel remover. And, separately, a big spanner to tighten the threaded headset. Almost everything else can be done with a good multi-tool if you're patient enough.
Nice work. I like that bike frame it looks very refreshing and exhilarating, and stylish. I like that crank arm..is that Chorus?

Originally Posted by dedhed View Post
My sense of personal responsibility would have gone with leaving the functioning, perfectly good, existing drivetrain and saved the money for rent, so I could move out of a tent in the woods. YMMV
That would do no good for me cause my job has always been unstable (for the last 5 years) due to mental/spiritual attack and struggles and pain. So saving up for a couple months of rent fee would be useless because I won't be able to pay rent consistently due to loss of jobs...that's why I need a housing assistance from the program...they said I pay 30% of whatever I make per month on rent. And if I lose my job I pay nothing until I get another job. I am getting my bike upgrade to restore, or energize (or refuel?) my mental health. Without the bike upgrade I have no will to do anything.. God has been merciful enough to allow me to upgrade my old bike he doesn't want me to buy a whole new bike. Getting a Campy Potenza brake/shift levers and front derailleur instead of the Chorus one was instructed or persuaded by God. But thankfully he allowed me to have a Campy Super Record rear derailleur for a huge discount. God gave me a break cause of so much pain and suffering I've been having.

Last edited by Cheez; 12-05-19 at 10:06 AM.
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Old 12-05-19, 10:17 AM
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Back to the question and my concern regarding upgrade compatibility with my current old chainring... My LBS said I need to upgrade my chainring to work with the 12 speed Campy front derailleur (don't remember the small one or the large one). Is it due to the size diameter of the chainring? My old one is 53 (large ring) and 42 (small ring). I looked at the 11 speed Campy Chorus crankset for reference and they show 53 (large ring) and 39 (small ring). They also have 34 teeth small ring on Amazon.. so which one do I need? And which ring? Or both? Btw mine is 5-arm crank. And what's with the 172, 172.5, and 175 mm stuff? I don't know what they are talking about.
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Old 12-05-19, 12:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Cheez View Post
Nice work. I like that bike frame it looks very refreshing and exhilarating, and stylish. I like that crank arm..is that Chorus?
.
Itís very exhilarating, thanks.

The cranks are actually Mirage, from back when all Campag groups were pretty much identical.

The cranks are 170mm, which is a bit shorter than Iím used to on most bikes, but I actually like them. 172.5mm is the standard length for most guys my size (Iím 5í10 and ride bikes in the 54cm to 56cm size range), but Iíve had 175mm in the past.

Try not to get too hung up on upgrades, though. The bike you have, if looked after well, will ride beautifully year-on-year. If you take care of it, it will take care of you. Much like your health. I had my own issues with anxiety a few years back, and building and, most of all, riding that Bianchi was a big part of my recovery.

I hear what you say about how new Potenza will give you the motivation to go out and ride, but I find that the thing that motivates me most to go out and ride, is actually going out and riding today, which will make me want to go out and ride tomorrow.
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Old 12-05-19, 02:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Cheez View Post
Back to the question and my concern regarding upgrade compatibility with my current old chainring... My LBS said I need to upgrade my chainring to work with the 12 speed Campy front derailleur (don't remember the small one or the large one). Is it due to the size diameter of the chainring? My old one is 53 (large ring) and 42 (small ring). I looked at the 11 speed Campy Chorus crankset for reference and they show 53 (large ring) and 39 (small ring). They also have 34 teeth small ring on Amazon.. so which one do I need? And which ring? Or both? Btw mine is 5-arm crank. And what's with the 172, 172.5, and 175 mm stuff? I don't know what they are talking about.
I smell a rat. Your Campy Athena crankset - it's from the early 90's? Gruppos from that time-frame were typically 7-8 speed. The only real issue I could see would be compatibility with an 11 speed chain - and the possibility that the width of the teeth on the chainring is incompatible with the inner diameter of an 11 speed chain. That is a possibility, but not likely. In point of fact, it's very common to run a ten speed chain on an eight speed cassette - and the increase to 11 speeds has a lot more to do with the hub and wheel spacing than it does the width of the cogs, chain rings and spacing between gears. If your LBS is telling you that the chain rings are not compatible with a derailleur then you need to either talk to someone else or find another LBS. Derailleurs move chains over gear teeth. That's it. Modern chain rings are ramped and pinned to make the transition smoother, but you could use a 1960 crank with a 2020 derailleur and the chain would move. When they talk about 170-172.5-175 they are referring to the length of the crank arm.
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Old 12-05-19, 04:01 PM
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Originally Posted by tgenec86 View Post
I smell a rat. Your Campy Athena crankset - it's from the early 90's? Gruppos from that time-frame were typically 7-8 speed. The only real issue I could see would be compatibility with an 11 speed chain - and the possibility that the width of the teeth on the chainring is incompatible with the inner diameter of an 11 speed chain. That is a possibility, but not likely. In point of fact, it's very common to run a ten speed chain on an eight speed cassette - and the increase to 11 speeds has a lot more to do with the hub and wheel spacing than it does the width of the cogs, chain rings and spacing between gears. If your LBS is telling you that the chain rings are not compatible with a derailleur then you need to either talk to someone else or find another LBS. Derailleurs move chains over gear teeth. That's it. Modern chain rings are ramped and pinned to make the transition smoother, but you could use a 1960 crank with a 2020 derailleur and the chain would move. When they talk about 170-172.5-175 they are referring to the length of the crank arm.

What's more likely is the narrower 11s chain will drop between the wider 8s spaced chain rings and jam.
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