Maelochs

Who has time to live in the future unless he is not fully living in the present---in which case he is wasting both times.

jefnvk

I'm not interested in a debate either, I'll agree with you for most gravel and CX applications, discs make more sense. MTB, without a doubt, and you'd never get anything else on a fatty. Just because they have a use in those applications tho, doesn't mean I foresee them taking over road and hybrid use, especially in lower end applications.

My wife just bought a bike with Tektro Mira brakes, for a tour. Didn't think anything of them, until she crashed and I had to jump on and tweak the brifters and shifting. Holy crap, are they atrocious compared to my Spyre and Shimano hydros. I couldn't believe how crappy they were, and I'm a guy who has $3 V brakes on another touring bike which stop well enough to feel comfortable hitting 45MPH coming down a 13% gravel grade.

If that is what goes out the door from the LBS on entry level bikes, I don't see them retaining market share in any large number.

Do remember after all, all the name brand manufacturers still sell freewheel bikes

cyclintom

Disk brakes offer nothing and you should know that.

KraneXL

You can run, but you cannot hide. Just try and find a manual shift or drum brake car these days.

leftover

I built a wheelset for a bike in the late '70's from a set of Schwinn "s7" rims spoked to a Suntour 12 speed hubset, I used the Weinmann calipers that were on it with no trouble. I also, in the last few years built a "commute" bike based off a Trek 4300 w/cantilever brakes, I run 26 by 2.125 wheels.
I am not understanding where the idea that rim brakes cannot do larger than 28 tires, as both of these exceed that size quite a bit, and I know of others running similar sizes.
Was there something I missed?

Maelochs

People have not all figured out how to undo the quick release on their brakes and are trying to jam a fully inflated tire between pads which are a millimeter off the rim.

BirdsBikeBinocs

OP here.

I don't understand your post. Can you clarify please.??

BirdsBikeBinocs

jefnvk

Base Kia Rio has both.

Go pretty much anywhere that isn't America or Canada (maybe Mexico too, never been there, can't say), and try to rent an auto tranny. I'm not waiting for it to happen, youre pretty much limited to an expensive luxury option or more likely nothing at all.

As far as drums, they are still extensively used on heavy trucks and in the rear on economy cars.

Ie, both are used where the market demands it and where they are the economical/technical choice

Maelochs

LOL, I just remembered my 2004 Civic has drum brakes in the rear ... and a 5-speed stick.

But hey ... they don't use rim brakes on helicopters, so that proves .... well ....

Disc brakes offer nothing, it is true. I have discs on the front of my Honda and on two bikes and on all four wheels of two Toyotas ... and never in my life have any of those brake discs offered me a thing. Not even on my birthday or during the winter holidays.

On another hand, the rest of my bikes have rim brakes ... not even a card on my birthday. What a bunch of selfish ingrates.

DrIsotope

In pertinent summary:

• Disc brakes can be better than rim brakes-- but the bottom-of-the-line Shimano mechanicals offer no real advantage over a typical rim brake
• Disc brakes may indeed by "the future," but that doesn't equate to rim brake obsolescence. You can still buy 6-speed freewheels and friction shifters.
• The disc model of the Speedster weighs nearly 2lbs more, and costs ~$150 more than the rim brake version. That's a double-dealbreaker.

I didn't see this thread as a rim vs. disc debate, though I knew that's where it would go. Viewed in strict context-- looking at the components fitted to the disc and non-disc Speedster, the rim brake model is a better buy.

rydabent

Even bikes at Walmart now have disc brakes. They are here now, learn to change.

fietsbob

With the Infinite budget of Formula One racing motor cars , it's already a thing..

winston63 

Exactly - arguing about the merits of hydraulic disc brakes is irrelevant to this discussion. Given the bikes the OP is considering, rim brakes are cheaper, lighter and as effective. End of story.

cyclintom

You must work for the media. They too have either lied openly about anything or misrepresented its meaning because that is what socialists do.

superpletch

my bike has:

disc brakes, tubeless tires, thru axles, and di2 shifting-oh the horror! this must give you old heads DBDS (disc brake derangement syndrome)

disc brakes allow for more tire clearance? don't wear out rims from friction? better modulation? quieter, especially with carbon rims?

rim brakes work fine and I have them on the front of my vintage frame fixie.

get the bike you like and want to ride, even if it. has 3 wheels.

Cl904

79pmooney

I just went to see what tires I could fit on my road bike. I'm comfortable riding 28c road tires on fine gravel but Cycle Oregon is offering one of its gravel options this year where the stones are 1 to 2". It looked like I could get a 38c Pasela on the front. Fully expecting to have to deflate the tire, I went for it. Throwing the caliper release off was not quite enough. But popping the Tektro (Cane Creek? - I forget which this bike has) lever release and I had clearances to spare. Lots. And this on on pretty skinny rims, ~20 mm outside width. I suspect a 45c would go in inflated. The calipers are simply Shimano Ultergra? 105?. I picked them up used and never learned the model.

Now I do have a feature that helps clearance although that was never considered when I did it. My levers are road V-brake. Less leverage, more cable travel so they sit further off the rim. (V-brake levers to get the bigger, more comfortable hoods and drop the power for more predictable braking on mountain descents. I love e'm.)

Ben

cyclintom

You can ride anything that the business can sell you. Disk brakes do not have "better modulation" than regular rim brakes. I won't argue that your rims will last longer if you won't argue that you're going to spend a hell of a lot more time replacing the disk pads. And the light weight disks wear out pretty rapidly. Though you are correct that it saves your $5,000 carbon wheels from wearing out from braking on the rims.


You have seen that changing a "through axle" on race bikes is so slow that the team car simple gives racers a new bike and changes the wheels later. The reason that through axles are necessary is because with a rim brake the force of stopping is at the fork crown/head tube whereas with a disk brake the stopping force is all at the axle. That makes the entire fork a lever capable of breaking. I don't think that normal 8 mm axles would break but the manufacturers certainly must be getting worried to put in 10 mm axles (25% larger) with a wrap-around locking mechanism.


There are plenty of reasons to use improving technology. BB30 cranks are narrower and if the BB is properly made and you use sealed ceramic bearings they will damn near last forever. With the narrower base you can be more efficient with your pedal stroke.


On a car or truck you have POWER braking systems completely with a fluid reservoir so that you can have very deep brake pads and as they wear down the fluid levels are renewed automatically. You don't have that on a bike so any wear on the brake pad shows up as level pull. It doesn't take long for the brake to bottom out against the bar. So you replace the pad to bring everything back to normal. Plus disk brakes have a hell of a lot more aero-drag. The TT bikes ALL use rim brakes.


Using tubeless tires has been an eye-opener to me. Wider, softer tires ride so much better that the old high pressure race tires we used to use seem silly now. The race teams are using tube tires instead of tubular and they are 26-27 mm wide. They are still getting a lot of flats because they are using those super low rolling resistance cotton ply tires that you could puncture with an evil look.


The long and the sort of it is that there are advances that are made to make the product better and others that aren't advances - only changes to help sell a new and "better" product. I have a couple of CX/gravel bikes and there is no question that good V-brakes have MUCH better modulation and only fractionally less power. And they don't squeal.

cyclintom

Remember that you can overdo tire width. If you are riding through deep sand or gravel you have a lot of surface area showing. I put 32's on my gravel bike and they feel sort of too wide. I'm 6'4" and 185 lbs. While most of the trails around here are pretty hardpack there are sections of loose gravel. We tend to ride off the side of the trail where there is grass and no gravel in these areas.

cyclintom

I have questions about braking wear. I've bought a set of carbon wheels and will update everyone as I see how it works.

cyclintom

Let me try to cover this again: You can have a fluid reservoir on your motorcycles, cars and trucks. This would be excess weight on a bike so they don't have them. Without a fluid reservoir brake pad wear equals more brake lever distance until the brake engages. Soon the brake lever bottoms against the handlebar and you have no brakes. You cannot "adjust" this as you possibly could with a mechanical disk. So you have to replace the pads all the time. There are also many other engineering considerations that make disk brakes on bicycles a not very good idea. You CAN use them on MTB's because the bikes are SOOO much heavier than a road bike and the entire sport is designed around flying downhill and not climbing up them.

I suspect that you are not an engineer or what I said would have been pretty plain to you the first time I said it. And if you are an engineer please tell me where you work so I could completely avoid your designs.

superpletch

wow, that was a strange screed. you are way smarter than me, obviously, but I change my disc brake pads in about 3 minutes and I've found they last about 3k miles. I'm not too concerned about the extra second it takes me to remove my thru-axle. I've never had to replace brake pads due to brake levers bottoming out, I've only ever had to replace them due to being worn out. I'm not worried about the fraction of a watt that disc brakes may consume due to aero drag? I love my tubeless tires and even run them on my road bikes. It appears you have limited experience with disc brakes. I love them, but ride what you want.

we better call the NIMH because DBDS is taking hold

cyclintom

Everything you say is true. But people are telling us that they do it for superior performance. And you do not get that from disk brakes and oversized axles. As you say, what difference does it make? In the long run - none. I think that the tubeless tires were a good idea. I really like mine and I CAN tell a difference in rolling resistance and particularly on California's terrible roads.

I couldn't say how you can go 3,000 miles without the lever bottoming out but then I ride a LOT of hills. At the moment I almost have 100,000 ft of climbing this years in almost 3,000 miles. I missed out on several months of riding with eye surgery, dental work and then a month of rain. So I'm way behind. I rode the disk bike maybe 200 miles and had to replace the pads. Of course that is some pretty dramatic trails with up to 24% climbs and over 30% drops. Since a CX bike doesn't have any suspension you have to charge through a lot of stuff and grab a real handful of brakes before the next turn to do it all again. Maybe a disk road bike doesn't wear as fast. I don't wear out my rims or pads on the road bikes.

MikeyMK

my 2kw e-bike weighs 90lbs, sprints to 45mph in just a few seconds, and despite using it on heavy stop-start routes i don't get fade.

Again, pads. And discs. Its not fair to compare the best rim brakes to small/budget/resin disc set-ups.

Also, the wet... enough said.

My bike would be hopeless on rims.