How do I make my vintage road bike more comfortable to ride?
#1
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How do I make my vintage road bike more comfortable to ride?
My vintage Lotus Unique is a beautiful bike and I love riding it but it isn't near as comfortable as my
Specialized Sirrus. There are 2 things I believe make the Sirrus more comfortable to ride. #1 is the tires
The tires on the Lotus are supposed to be 1 1/8" but in actuality measure 24 m.m. wide and they are
mounted to a rim that is 18.7 m.m. wide. The Sirrus has tires marked 28 m.m. wide but are actually
26 m.m. mounted on rims that are 25 m.m. wide. The other difference is in the seats of the 2 bikes.
While they are approximately the same size the original seat on the lotus is much harder. My
question is, would changing to a wider tire and a little softer seat make a big difference in the
comfort of the Lotus? Thanks Bob
Specialized Sirrus. There are 2 things I believe make the Sirrus more comfortable to ride. #1 is the tires
The tires on the Lotus are supposed to be 1 1/8" but in actuality measure 24 m.m. wide and they are
mounted to a rim that is 18.7 m.m. wide. The Sirrus has tires marked 28 m.m. wide but are actually
26 m.m. mounted on rims that are 25 m.m. wide. The other difference is in the seats of the 2 bikes.
While they are approximately the same size the original seat on the lotus is much harder. My
question is, would changing to a wider tire and a little softer seat make a big difference in the
comfort of the Lotus? Thanks Bob
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Frame tubing and geometry play a role in riding comfort. Just out of curiosity, what type of steel are the frames made from and what are the wheel base measurements?
#3
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You could try swapping the seats for a day. I notice the difference between my bikes I ride at 90 psi, and the one I ride at 80. I would say more of a feel, then true comfort regarding the tire pressure, some days I like to feel that high speed vibration; some days I like a little smoother. Usually it's re-experiencing the feel of the bike I haven't ridden more recently that I like the best.
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Put as wide a tire on as you can manage. Preferably Compass. They make gumwalls, so it will look right too.
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My vintage Lotus Unique is a beautiful bike....The tires on the Lotus are supposed to be 1 1/8" but in actuality measure 24 m.m. wide and they are.... the seats of the 2 bikes.
While they are approximately the same size the original seat on the lotus is much harder..... .thanks Bob
While they are approximately the same size the original seat on the lotus is much harder..... .thanks Bob
The saddle most comfortable to YOU.... is the one that best fits your sit bones. The odds of finding that best-fit saddle on some used bike.... aren't great. Take the time to find a saddle style and brand that is comfy for YOU.
Last edited by Dave Cutter; 07-11-18 at 08:49 PM.
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Overall fit of the frame is important as well. How do the bikes compare seattube/toptube/stem?
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The Lotus frame is double butted Mangaloy with a wheelbase of 40 inches. The Sirrus frame is aluminum with a wheelbase of 39"
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#10
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I added a Selle Anatomica X2 saddle to a vintage Schwinn Peloton I recently restored. This saddle made a huge difference for me in long ride comfort level.
FWIW...
FWIW...
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RobertJ, can you describe the discomfort at all? What hurts? "not as comfortable" is rather vague.
One thing to do is to match the saddle height, setback, and tilt between the two bikes, and the handlebar height (same number of cm between the saddle top and the bar top. Essentially, match the positions of the contact points of the two frames.
If they begin to feel the same, you know the concerns are due to fitting. Otherwise, the discomforts are due to tubing, tires, and general frame geometry and weight distrubution.
One thing to do is to match the saddle height, setback, and tilt between the two bikes, and the handlebar height (same number of cm between the saddle top and the bar top. Essentially, match the positions of the contact points of the two frames.
If they begin to feel the same, you know the concerns are due to fitting. Otherwise, the discomforts are due to tubing, tires, and general frame geometry and weight distrubution.
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RobertJ, can you describe the discomfort at all? What hurts? "not as comfortable" is rather vague.
One thing to do is to match the saddle height, setback, and tilt between the two bikes, and the handlebar height (same number of cm between the saddle top and the bar top. Essentially, match the positions of the contact points of the two frames.
If they begin to feel the same, you know the concerns are due to fitting. Otherwise, the discomforts are due to tubing, tires, and general frame geometry and weight distrubution.
One thing to do is to match the saddle height, setback, and tilt between the two bikes, and the handlebar height (same number of cm between the saddle top and the bar top. Essentially, match the positions of the contact points of the two frames.
If they begin to feel the same, you know the concerns are due to fitting. Otherwise, the discomforts are due to tubing, tires, and general frame geometry and weight distrubution.
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Well, the shape or width of the saddle could be speaking their piece, as well. Did you try swapping the two saddles to see if they still feel the same?
And I do believe the fit of the bikes to your body is important to comfort.
Could you say if your discomfort is in the sit-bones versus in the soft tissues in front of them?
And I do believe the fit of the bikes to your body is important to comfort.
Could you say if your discomfort is in the sit-bones versus in the soft tissues in front of them?
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Seats make a huge difference. Even ones that look exactly the same can feel different because they have different kinds of padding built in. I had that experience with two saddles by the same manufacturer but one was too a bit too soft and the other was great. They were different levels of the same model. You should give it a try.
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Seats make a huge difference. Even ones that look exactly the same can feel different because they have different kinds of padding built in. I had that experience with two saddles by the same manufacturer but one was too a bit too soft and the other was great. They were different levels of the same model. You should give it a try.
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I like wide tires. I tend to put the widest tire I can fit on my bikes. But, I can ride a lot longer on a bike with skinny tires and a comfortable seat than I can on a bike with fat tires and an uncomfortable seat.
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#17
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Tire width/pressure is a pretty big deal for comfort, but I would invest in a more comfortable saddle first given what you've said here.
+1 on swapping the saddle from the more comfortable bike.
+1 on swapping the saddle from the more comfortable bike.
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I have a modern cyclocross aluminum frame bike (Cannondale CAADX) that feels great and a 1985 Gazelle Champion Mondale steel frame. They both weigh about the same and the geometry feel very much the same. The CX bike has 35mm wide tires on it and the Gazelle has 25mm tires, yet they ride very similarly. They main thing is they each have the same saddle. It took me a long time to find the right saddle for my butt, and when I found it, I put the same one on all three of my bike (including my mountain bike). I believe that once you find the saddle that works for you, replicate that feeling on all your bikes. And don’t forget to adjust the saddle fire and aft as well as tilting it - that’s extremely important. Also, the brand and construction of the tires makes a difference. To me higher TPI tires are smoother and more comfortable. Good luck finding the perfect feel for your bikes.
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I doubt that tires alone will help much with saddle pressure soreness.
For me, getting accustomed to my '89 Ironman a year ago was an incremental process. I hadn't been on a drop bar road bike of any kind in more than 30 years. I'd been riding hybrids for a couple of years before last year. But I was also still recovering from old neck and back injuries.
The first step was getting my body back in shape. The hybrids didn't cause much stress. The road bike was more demanding.
I did swap tires after a month, from cheap but durable Vittoria Zaffiros to Schwalbe One V-Guards. Big difference in comfort and handling.
Lots of little adjustments to saddle height and fore/aft position, stem height, handlebar/brake lever angle, etc. As my body adapted I'd tweak things again.
After 6-7 months, I was ready for some more significant changes: clipless pedals, firmer and narrower saddle (my sit bones are pretty narrow), and finally a shorter stem which made a huge difference in neck comfort.
Now it feels about right. For now. Subject to change as my body changes -- hopefully that means improves rather than deteriorates.
Biggest difference in comfort? A test ride on a recent model used Specialized Tarmac SL4 last weekend. Wow. I hate to admit it, but even aside from the whole carbon fiber whizbang stuff, the newer road bike handlebar and hood design is much more ergonomically friendly. That was the single biggest difference I noted. The second thing was the frame stiffness -- no perceptible flex, so pedaling felt more efficient.
On the other hand, the Centurion Ironman is more comfortable on rough roads, chipseal, etc. That frame and fork have a nice compromise between stiffness and flex for a variety of real world conditions.
But now I'm seriously thinking about redoing the Ironman's handlebar and switching to brifters or, at least, more ergonomically friendly hoods if there is such a thing for this type of bike. Those skinny little low angle hooks just don't compare with the newer design.
For me, getting accustomed to my '89 Ironman a year ago was an incremental process. I hadn't been on a drop bar road bike of any kind in more than 30 years. I'd been riding hybrids for a couple of years before last year. But I was also still recovering from old neck and back injuries.
The first step was getting my body back in shape. The hybrids didn't cause much stress. The road bike was more demanding.
I did swap tires after a month, from cheap but durable Vittoria Zaffiros to Schwalbe One V-Guards. Big difference in comfort and handling.
Lots of little adjustments to saddle height and fore/aft position, stem height, handlebar/brake lever angle, etc. As my body adapted I'd tweak things again.
After 6-7 months, I was ready for some more significant changes: clipless pedals, firmer and narrower saddle (my sit bones are pretty narrow), and finally a shorter stem which made a huge difference in neck comfort.
Now it feels about right. For now. Subject to change as my body changes -- hopefully that means improves rather than deteriorates.
Biggest difference in comfort? A test ride on a recent model used Specialized Tarmac SL4 last weekend. Wow. I hate to admit it, but even aside from the whole carbon fiber whizbang stuff, the newer road bike handlebar and hood design is much more ergonomically friendly. That was the single biggest difference I noted. The second thing was the frame stiffness -- no perceptible flex, so pedaling felt more efficient.
On the other hand, the Centurion Ironman is more comfortable on rough roads, chipseal, etc. That frame and fork have a nice compromise between stiffness and flex for a variety of real world conditions.
But now I'm seriously thinking about redoing the Ironman's handlebar and switching to brifters or, at least, more ergonomically friendly hoods if there is such a thing for this type of bike. Those skinny little low angle hooks just don't compare with the newer design.
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My vintage Lotus Unique is a beautiful bike and I love riding it but it isn't near as comfortable as my
Specialized Sirrus. There are 2 things I believe make the Sirrus more comfortable to ride. #1 is the tires
The tires on the Lotus are supposed to be 1 1/8" but in actuality measure 24 m.m. wide and they are
mounted to a rim that is 18.7 m.m. wide. The Sirrus has tires marked 28 m.m. wide but are actually
26 m.m. mounted on rims that are 25 m.m. wide. The other difference is in the seats of the 2 bikes.
While they are approximately the same size the original seat on the lotus is much harder. My
question is, would changing to a wider tire and a little softer seat make a big difference in the
comfort of the Lotus? Thanks Bob
Specialized Sirrus. There are 2 things I believe make the Sirrus more comfortable to ride. #1 is the tires
The tires on the Lotus are supposed to be 1 1/8" but in actuality measure 24 m.m. wide and they are
mounted to a rim that is 18.7 m.m. wide. The Sirrus has tires marked 28 m.m. wide but are actually
26 m.m. mounted on rims that are 25 m.m. wide. The other difference is in the seats of the 2 bikes.
While they are approximately the same size the original seat on the lotus is much harder. My
question is, would changing to a wider tire and a little softer seat make a big difference in the
comfort of the Lotus? Thanks Bob
As far as saddles are concerned: could you share with us what kind of saddle is on there now? Also, could you tell us a little about you as a rider? What distance rides will you be doing? How many hills? What is your current fitness and what are your fitness or cycling goals? How you answer allows us armchair coaches to be of more assistance to you.
one important bit of cycling wisdom I have learned over the years involves “contact points on the bike” - your butt, your hands and your feet. Your butt is just 1/3 of this triad. Good handlebar tape, good gloves, and conducive “cockpit” (bars, stem of correct width, stem length and drops that you can make effective use of in addition to comfortable hoods) - these will optimize the hand part of the triad.
2nd - optimize the “feet” part of the triad. Even though your bike is “vintage”, I would suggest running modern clipless pedals if you are not already - this makes a HUGE difference in efficiency and comfort. You can run mountain (SPD) or road pedals (Shimano/Look/Time/Speedplay are all good) - your choice. When your butt gets sore alternate your pressure points like a yogi on your bike. Stand on your pedals with the cranks at 3 o’clock and 9 o’clock and coast, clamping your saddle between your thighs but not sitting on it. Then sit down. Utilize your rigid shoes/clipless pedals to their fullest by using all your gears through changes in terrain and wind. Pedal lightly, and do drills where you practice pulling up as opposed to mashing. This makes you hamstring dominant when needed.
Last part of the triad is the saddle. You say yours is “hard”. We really do need more info here. A picture would help. Soft saddles are rarely the solution for longer rides, saddles that fit properly are. Everybody has their favorite and they generally stick with what works for them. I ride a Selle Italia Turbomatic Team. It is both hard (dense padding) and somewhat soft (elastomers between the shell and saddle rails mute road bumps somewhat). A microadjusting seat post is really a necessary upgrade to fine tune just the right amount of upward (or slight downward) tilt. Playing around with leg extension by raising the saddle higher in very small increments as your fitness improves can extract more power out of your stroke and increase comfort - a double win if this applies to you. Yoga or stretching to get more flat can relieve pressure on the butt because you are rotating your pelvis forward and no longer sitting so much as perched on the saddle. I’m 56, have been 265 pounds and had back surgery but I have found this more racer type setup is more comfortbable, not less.
Lastly, To me Lotus bikes are more classic and a bit dated usually in how the bike shop fitted them. Often the frames were too big. You might find that the critical frame dimensions are much different than your modern steed. I’d suggest you take some notes, using a metric measuring tape of your modern bike’s top tube length (virtual), headtube length, saddle height, set back, etc... and compare to the lotus. You might find (for example) that you need a “zero setback” seatpost to push the saddle forward a bit to replicate your golden measurement from your modern reference bike. The same goes for the bars and stem. The ones on your Lotus may just be wrong for your personal needs.
I’ll be curious to hear more details from you as you seek to make your Lotus comfortable for you.
Last edited by masi61; 07-10-18 at 12:15 PM.
#21
Senior Member
Maybe just reduce tire pressure until you settle on which new tire and how you get there. There is little choice in the market and fewer good choices in the old 27" size. The suggestion above for a Conti tire is as good as I could do in 27" but those tires are just rocks compared to what I ride. To get selection and quality you almost have to go to 700c rims. Which means quite a bit of money and time. Tires do make a huge difference. Even if you have the wrong saddle and it feels like a ball peen hammer on your backside a softer tire is like someone with less arm swinging that hammer.
Swap the Sirrus saddle that seems to work. You have the saddle on hand so try it. By all rights the Lotus should be a better ride than the Sirrus. There is always the old chestnut - put more weight on the pedals and you won't notice the saddle.
Swap the Sirrus saddle that seems to work. You have the saddle on hand so try it. By all rights the Lotus should be a better ride than the Sirrus. There is always the old chestnut - put more weight on the pedals and you won't notice the saddle.
#22
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"Do this, do that". Try this, try that"....
Assuming that all of the obvious variables like frame size, tire size and tire pressure and all those other issues have been addressed then look at the saddle.
An amazing number of cyclists have never understood the mysteries of saddle adjustments!
Some saddles will never be comfortable for the owner's riding style and requirements.
For example many novice riders think that a cushy saddle with 3"+ of foam or gel is ideal. Unfortunately after about 5 miles the rider sinks down into the tush cush and they become uncomfortable because of inappropriate pressure to sensitive areas.
Find a saddle that is close to a riders requirements and then start adjusting it until the position becomes comfortable: saddle height, front to rear positioning and nose angle are easy to adjust.
Riders should understand that there are only 2 small area of their derrière that pressure is acceptable: the "sits points" which are high (or low ) points on the pelvic bones. The areas are not well enervated (not many nerves) and the flesh over those points gets tough after a short amount of time (or should). The points are usually wider in women than in men.
If (when) that doesn't solve the problem start looking at other saddles.
Eddy Merckx adjusting his saddle on the fly. He injured his pelvis in a crash in 1969 and experienced pain while riding during the rest of his career. He was continuously adjusting or changing saddles.
I'm not Eddy but I find that even a minor adjustment of 1/8" in saddle height 1°- 2°in nose angle can make a difference in comfort for me. It changes depending on how much riding I'm doing.
When my saddle is properly adjusted my weight is distributed between my bottom, my legs and my hands. It feels like it's not there!
verktyg retro grouch
Assuming that all of the obvious variables like frame size, tire size and tire pressure and all those other issues have been addressed then look at the saddle.
An amazing number of cyclists have never understood the mysteries of saddle adjustments!
Some saddles will never be comfortable for the owner's riding style and requirements.
For example many novice riders think that a cushy saddle with 3"+ of foam or gel is ideal. Unfortunately after about 5 miles the rider sinks down into the tush cush and they become uncomfortable because of inappropriate pressure to sensitive areas.
Find a saddle that is close to a riders requirements and then start adjusting it until the position becomes comfortable: saddle height, front to rear positioning and nose angle are easy to adjust.
Riders should understand that there are only 2 small area of their derrière that pressure is acceptable: the "sits points" which are high (or low ) points on the pelvic bones. The areas are not well enervated (not many nerves) and the flesh over those points gets tough after a short amount of time (or should). The points are usually wider in women than in men.
If (when) that doesn't solve the problem start looking at other saddles.
Eddy Merckx adjusting his saddle on the fly. He injured his pelvis in a crash in 1969 and experienced pain while riding during the rest of his career. He was continuously adjusting or changing saddles.
I'm not Eddy but I find that even a minor adjustment of 1/8" in saddle height 1°- 2°in nose angle can make a difference in comfort for me. It changes depending on how much riding I'm doing.
When my saddle is properly adjusted my weight is distributed between my bottom, my legs and my hands. It feels like it's not there!
verktyg retro grouch
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Last edited by verktyg; 07-11-18 at 02:45 AM.
#23
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My vintage Lotus Unique is a beautiful bike and I love riding it but it isn't near as comfortable as my
Specialized Sirrus. There are 2 things I believe make the Sirrus more comfortable to ride. #1 is the tires
The tires on the Lotus are supposed to be 1 1/8" but in actuality measure 24 m.m. wide and they are
mounted to a rim that is 18.7 m.m. wide. The Sirrus has tires marked 28 m.m. wide but are actually
26 m.m. mounted on rims that are 25 m.m. wide. The other difference is in the seats of the 2 bikes.
While they are approximately the same size the original seat on the lotus is much harder. My
question is, would changing to a wider tire and a little softer seat make a big difference in the
comfort of the Lotus? Thanks Bob
Specialized Sirrus. There are 2 things I believe make the Sirrus more comfortable to ride. #1 is the tires
The tires on the Lotus are supposed to be 1 1/8" but in actuality measure 24 m.m. wide and they are
mounted to a rim that is 18.7 m.m. wide. The Sirrus has tires marked 28 m.m. wide but are actually
26 m.m. mounted on rims that are 25 m.m. wide. The other difference is in the seats of the 2 bikes.
While they are approximately the same size the original seat on the lotus is much harder. My
question is, would changing to a wider tire and a little softer seat make a big difference in the
comfort of the Lotus? Thanks Bob
#24
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Bob, if the Lotus has 1-1/8 tires then I assume your bike has 27” wheels. An easy upgrade would be to put some 27x1-1/4” Continental Ultrasport tires on there. 1-1/4”=31.75mm. Run them less than rock hard and they should be quite comfortable.
As far as saddles are concerned: could you share with us what kind of saddle is on there now? Also, could you tell us a little about you as a rider? What distance rides will you be doing? How many hills? What is your current fitness and what are your fitness or cycling goals? How you answer allows us armchair coaches to be of more assistance to you.
one important bit of cycling wisdom I have learned over the years involves “contact points on the bike” - your butt, your hands and your feet. Your butt is just 1/3 of this triad. Good handlebar tape, good gloves, and conducive “cockpit” (bars, stem of correct width, stem length and drops that you can make effective use of in addition to comfortable hoods) - these will optimize the hand part of the triad.
2nd - optimize the “feet” part of the triad. Even though your bike is “vintage”, I would suggest running modern clipless pedals if you are not already - this makes a HUGE difference in efficiency and comfort. You can run mountain (SPD) or road pedals (Shimano/Look/Time/Speedplay are all good) - your choice. When your butt gets sore alternate your pressure points like a yogi on your bike. Stand on your pedals with the cranks at 3 o’clock and 9 o’clock and coast, clamping your saddle between your thighs but not sitting on it. Then sit down. Utilize your rigid shoes/clipless pedals to their fullest by using all your gears through changes in terrain and wind. Pedal lightly, and do drills where you practice pulling up as opposed to mashing. This makes you hamstring dominant when needed.
Last part of the triad is the saddle. You say yours is “hard”. We really do need more info here. A picture would help. Soft saddles are rarely the solution for longer rides, saddles that fit properly are. Everybody has their favorite and they generally stick with what works for them. I ride a Selle Italia Turbomatic Team. It is both hard (dense padding) and somewhat soft (elastomers between the shell and saddle rails mute road bumps somewhat). A microadjusting seat post is really a necessary upgrade to fine tune just the right amount of upward (or slight downward) tilt. Playing around with leg extension by raising the saddle higher in very small increments as your fitness improves can extract more power out of your stroke and increase comfort - a double win if this applies to you. Yoga or stretching to get more flat can relieve pressure on the butt because you are rotating your pelvis forward and no longer sitting so much as perched on the saddle. I’m 56, have been 265 pounds and had back surgery but I have found this more racer type setup is more comfortbable, not less.
Lastly, To me Lotus bikes are more classic and a bit dated usually in how the bike shop fitted them. Often the frames were too big. You might find that the critical frame dimensions are much different than your modern steed. I’d suggest you take some notes, using a metric measuring tape of your modern bike’s top tube length (virtual), headtube length, saddle height, set back, etc... and compare to the lotus. You might find (for example) that you need a “zero setback” seatpost to push the saddle forward a bit to replicate your golden measurement from your modern reference bike. The same goes for the bars and stem. The ones on your Lotus may just be wrong for your personal needs.
I’ll be curious to hear more details from you as you seek to make your Lotus comfortable for you.
I'll try a longer ride tomorrow. I think you are right about the pedals. I took the clips off the pedals when I first got it and they are pretty narrow. I find myself re positioning my feet quite a bit while using them.
Here are some photos of the 2 seats. Both seem to be original. While the more comfortable specialized seat is softer but not overly soft. The Lotus seat has very little give and almost feels like hard plastic.
[img]https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikeforums.net-vbulletin/1500x2000/20180711_192754_resized_812640639e4ae70de506ad6e1500b538a01b2d5d.jpg
#25
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Bikes: 1983 Univega Super Strada, 1986 Panasonic DX5000, 1984 Fuji Team 85 Univega Gran Turismo, 1984 Lotus Unique, 1987 Centurion Expert, 1987 Centurion Ironman Master,
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Here are the 2 together