McBTC

I'm not wrong because I have no opinion about it but I'm certain many disagree with you because they believe that, if anything, the toe may actually be up and the heel down a bit until the foot is at the bottom of the stroke --e.g.,

Pedaling Mechanics | Bicycling

McBTC

Interesting... I'm sort of copying that with a cute little add-on I ordered. Have you seen:

MKS Spin Pedal Flips, Pair

McBTC

Doing that...

RoderWrench

""At 12 o'clock, your toes should be pointed down about 20 degrees"

Here's a quote, right out of your link. That's all that I'm saying. I never said heel up all the way around.

Toes pointed down about 20 degrees is not a good idea on flat pedals. That was my only point.

RPK79

Someone should come up with a way to have a "cleat" on your shoe that you can move to your desired place that can "clip" into a pedal to be secure, but easily be "unclipped" for when you come to stops. Then you wouldn't have to find the perfect pedal / toe clip combo for your desired foot / axle placement.

Sigh. We can dream....

halfspeed

Kickstarter!

McBTC

As it turns out, notions about commonly accepted crank lengths are wholly arbitrary. What little research has been done doesn't actually endorse commonly accepted dimensions.

Rather, the research has been interpreted to say that it doesn't really matter much. Manufacturers don't mind hearing that as it simplifies their job and justifies the relative lack of alternative crank lengths compared to the far larger range in body size and road frames.

Once you're locked into --e.g., 175mm cranks, given the usual road frame geometry, there's not much room left to experiment with pedal foot placement as you quickly run into toe overlap problems.

So, the folks that seem to me are the most intrigued and with an increased motive to question the common knowledge in this area have been triathletes. For them, the race is won or lost in the run not on the bike.

If shorter cranks or a more midfoot placement of the pedal axle improves running performance, giving up some time on the bike could even be a welcome trade-off. For some, however, bike performances were actually improved when going to shorter cranks.

I'm not positive from what I've read that gains from changes in foot placement have been as dramatic, although it could be something that is just the opposite of the crank length paradigm --i.e., it's commonly accepted that riding on the ball of your foot is best. No one is advocating placing the pedal axle forward. Even so, being on the ball of the foot isn't necessarily ideal; and, within a larger range than perhaps thought, it doesn't really matter that much and maybe saves some energy -- and doesn't work the calves as much -- to move the foot forward on the pedals.

LesterOfPuppets

Most of the roadbikes I've owned featured toe overlap. It's part of their charm, really.

RPK79

When did this become a crank length discussion?

Modern cycling shoes allow for different cleat placements.

Triathletes are weird.

RPK79

Oh, yes. Forgot that they mentioned toe overlap in that last tirade. I've never had a road bike without it. It's never bothered me and I've only ever noticed it when the bike was at a standstill.

halfspeed

The funny thing about crank lengths is that there are two schools of thought among non-conventional thinkers. Some advocate long cranks and some short ones.

RPK79

No one advocates for the poor medium length cranks.

LesterOfPuppets

Really sucks being a mountain biker who's a huge fan of 172.5.

McBTC

That may be all that anyone is really doing if they endorse 165 over 175 mm cranks as 145 mm cranks may in reality be better still.

McBTC

This is pretty much what I wanted to try out. For anyone wanting deeper clips than "LL" and a standard pedal provides, the screws are 10-32 x 1-1/4" and aside from various nuts and washers, coupler bolts or spacers is what you'd be looking for in, e.g., Lowes.