PepeM

CO2 is not considered a pollutant.

rekmeyata

Right, either that or all you CO2 users are polluting and not caring.

PepeM

That was directed at Maelochs, btw. No idea what you're on about.

Stucky

Funny thing about that: I knew a guy who's been on the heart transplant list....for over 20 years. (When ones become available, other circumstances prevent him from having it done within the time window alotted)....and yet he continues to live. I'm sure if he had received a transplant 20 years ago, he'd say that his life had been saved by the transplant. Funny thing, from what I've heard, people who get transplants are only expected to live 10 years.

Funny thing too: In the past, heart maladies were not as common in younger people as they are today.

Anywho, I'm glad you're still with us. Keep on pedaling!!!!

Oh, yeah, and actually, I've been thinking of selling the Klein for something older; something with downtube shifters. I'm just finding it hard to butcher a classic by converting it to a compact crank (like I've done to mine Klein) which I need for the constant hills around here....and what with with me being like a noodle-legged school-girl and all....but i'll eventually do it.

Maelochs

Right ... but does anyone see China on the index? Oh, wait ... everyone is criticizing my citation of the US as a polluter, but ignoring that China was called out as the world's biggest polluter .... buncha crap.

Whatever. Total pollution matters much more than per capita. if one guy throws away one half-full can of oil, and one million throw away one teaspoon .... the issue isn't per capita, but overall environmental impact.

To bring this back to the actual topic of the thread ... nobody Really chooses a bike frame based on either the total pollution, the per-capita pollution, or the specific pollution output in any specific category ... if we did, none of us would ride, because most of our components were made in China (which was cited as the #1 polluter, remember?)

When it comes to steel frames, aluminum frames, CF frames, wood frames ... people are looking at the frames, not the source nation. Just like no one asks exactly which factory in which nation produced the tires, brake shoes, rims, cockpit parts or individual groupset parts.

Pretty generally, all of these things are produced where labor is cheaper and environmental protection standards are lower ... just that way. And by and large, we don't care, when choosing what to buy.

People who need to feel superior because of their frame or frame material or pretty much because of any material thing they didn't make themselves, are sort of pathetic, in my eyes ... but I also think almost all of us are guilty of that at least a little, at least now and then. Life goes on.

Steel frames go on, too. No reason a steel frame shouldn't outlive its maker and its owner.

Maelochs

My resting heart rate was 150 and steadily rising week by week. So maybe I am exaggerating about the procedure saving my life ... but I really think that if I had not gotten surgery at some point my heart would have simply given out.

That is what the doctors thought too, which is why I got emergency surgery. I suppose I could have just let it get up to 220 or 250, see what happened ... but I could get it to 220 or 230 just by walking quickly for 50 yards, and it didn't feel real good. Cycling was right out.

But I think it is silly to say medicine has not made advances. I am not happy with a lot of the way the industry has trended, but seriously, people used to die of all kinds of stuff which is easily curable nowadays ... people used to die from minor infections and stuff.

Now we die of heart disease because we Choose heart disease. People used to die from minor wounds because they couldn't choose antibiotics. Ask any vet if he or she would rather have gone to surgery during the Civil War or nowadays ....

Anyway, don't sell the Klein. Find an old (not too old--700c wheels) steel frame which has been abused already and anything you do will be a blessing for it.

I will Never give up brifters, though. Years and years of downtube friction shifting taught me basically, not to shift so much. if that works for you, awesome. You have found your niche. Myself, the older and weaker I get, the more I appreciate the extra gears out back, and the ease with which I can use them.

Whatever. You know the drill. Pics or it doesn't exist.

desconhecido 

From the website that you linked to:"This section is based on surveys from visitors of this website. Questions for this surveys are similar to many similar scientific and government surveys."

So, what, exactly, is measured by the "pollution index," as presented on the site? The answer appears to be website user perceptions.

Maelochs

I perceive Ghana to be a very dirty place ... granted, it is pretty hard to see from here .....

WizardOfBoz

Scarbo, you may also wish to look at the Raleigh Competition of similar vintage. Some comparison with the SC here:

https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-vi...mpetition.html

I had one. For a while, they were lavender of all colors. I had a lavender one! So a 6'2", 220 lb defensive end type riding around on an lavender bike. I kind of liked it, both because it was a great bike and ... well, it caused smaller minds to torque themselves into a knot.

rekmeyata

It wasn't directed at you, it was a directed at those who think CO2 is a pollutant and those that think that way yet use CO2 as a tire inflator.

rekmeyata

That's odd, I found China on that list, where do you think Mongolia is? I think perhaps you should read the article in full detail instead of getting excited about something just because you heard of something contrary to what you've been told over the years by the media. You do know how to read right?

Maelochs

Remeyata ... sorry you cannot handle people disagreeing with you.

bulldog1935

It's probably not China's fault US companies are sourcing all their manufacturing there so they can buy cheap high-pollution electricity. (and Mexico, et.al.)

But it's something we need to consider if we're going to continue calling bicycles green transportation.

PepeM

Wait, what?

Maelochs

I found the US on that list, where do you think Canada is?

Maelochs

Anyway, Bulldog actually raises a good point ... but I'd say, even with the huge amount of electricity involved in smelting and forming aluminum, the net pollution cost for producing a bicycle---and considering size and weight, the whole life-cycle, getting it from factory to warehouse to outlet, and then the one-to-five decade lifespan--is a lot lower than making a car ... add rioad repair, transport of fuel, burned fuel ....

Bikes are still cleaner than cars ... just a lot less practical in most situations.

And yes, the Italian Huffy is quite Fredly.

PepeM

Btw, I mentioned CO2 not being considered a pollutant to clarify something: When Maelochs mentioned the US being the second largest polluter in the world behind China, what he meant is second largest emitter of green house gases, which is correct.

CO2 is not considered a pollutant in that it is not nocive to your health in the way, say, CO or particulate matter are. It, however, increases the greenhouse effect, which brings other issues altogether. In terms of pollution, the US does well since agencies such as the EPA (which apparently is a JOKE) have set regulations on how much crap power plants, factories, cars, etc. can throw into the air and waterways. No such regulations exist in other countries, which is why they have much higher levels of pollution. Also, no such regulations exist in the US for ghg emissions yet.

EDIT: Some agencies have in the past few years started (or thought about) considering CO2 a pollutant. Still a bit of a controversial topic.

bulldog1935

just a vote - this is my favorite post on this thread

and ask any oyster - they'll tell you any acid gasses dissolved in the ocean is a pollutant.

rekmeyata

You're not disagreeing with me, you're disagreeing with WHO, I'm not the least bit upset, it's you that are upset because you can't prove your point in the face of facts from WHO and the other sources I gave.

This is so much fun.