Ninety5rpm

The Special Mode - CyclingSavvy

Excerpt:

Is it possible to provide bicycle facilities for “beginner” cyclists?

Yes, but the opportunities for such facilities are very limited. Trails in their own rights-of-way are great places to learn bike handling skills and get comfortable operating the machine. But when a path is placed along a busy urban or suburban street, it presents users with more turning and crossing conflicts with motorists than a cyclist would encounter using a regular travel lane. In Central Florida, where I study bicycle and pedestrian crashes, 82 percent of motorist-caused bike crashes involve cyclists riding on sidewalks, sidepaths and crosswalks.

CliffordK

Didn't you already start a couple of topics on CyclingSavvy?

Is that being promoted in Florida, the most dangerous cycling state in the USA? Is it working?

Sidewalks are a special case. Perhaps OK for the rider who is paying enough attention that they would also be safe on the road. But, they are prone to generally low-speed accidents.

mr_bill

“It’s beyond the scope of this post to describe how, but when you explore CyclingSavvy Online or attend a CyclingSavvy workshop, we’ll show you how.”

But wait, there’s more. Send money now and we’ll....

-mr. bill

Ninety5rpm

Yeah, they're in it for the big bucks.

Ninety5rpm

This thread is not about CyclingSavvy - it's about the one particular blog article linked in the OP. For those who may be interested.

mr_bill

They are in it for the bucks.

-mr. bill

B. Carfree

I periodically look at what they put out. I'm an ornery old cuss, but I haven't found anything of theirs to disagree with. Clearly, they're not trying hard enough.

Ninety5rpm

They have several hours worth of free video:

https://vimeo.com/album/1881848


The two-part online course is $100, to help offset costs. Bargain for life-saving education, I think. YMMV.

https://online.cyclingsavvy.org/p/cy...ymasterybundle

Fjl229

ABEA, the organization that runs Cycling Savvy is a small non-profit. The instructors are usually responsible for their own travel and expenses whenever they conduct a course. Hardly a money maker.

mr_bill

Under three hours is "several" hours?

Have *you* taken the courses, either online or in real life?

Anyhow, I find it odd how something as safe as bicycling on a road requires "life-saving" education.

-mr. bill

Ninety5rpm

Yes, I have taken the course, and I know many others who have.

It's potentially life-saving for most cyclists because many cyclists engage in behavior that will lead to death for some of them, and the course teaches how to change their thinking and behavior to not do that.

But, your point is well taken. Most cyclists won't die even if they continue to engage in this relatively risky unSavvy behavior (like riding in door zones, and generally not using lane positioning for safety), but some won't be so lucky, and no one can know whether they are in the "most" or "some]" group. Besides, the savvy practices make being injured far less likely too (and that is likely to happen to many cyclists), and almost all find they enjoy riding more as a result of what they learned, especially riding in traffic.

But don't take my word for it...

https://register.cyclingsavvy.org/testimonials

mr_bill

How has it saved YOUR life?

-mr. bill

Daniel4

Motorists should be required to take cycling courses to get their driver's licence.

I-Like-To-Bike

Should cyclists also be required to take this unnamed "cycling course" in order to get a cyclist's riding license?

Gresp15C

I'm probably preaching to the choir here, but in my view, cyclist licensing doesn't solve a problem, would be expensive to administer, unenforceable, and would deter people from giving cycling a try.

I prefer to let bikes be a mode of transportation that people can approach more casually. Someone can take a safety course if they want to, or read about safety on the Internet. I'm even in favor of letting bikes be a transportation option for people who can't get a drivers license.

Daniel4

No.

Educating motorists would be more effective. Hardly any road deaths are caused by cyclists or pedestrians.

I-Like-To-Bike

Of course you are 100% correct. People who propose a requirement for anyone to take unnamed cycling courses as a prerequisite for licensing usually have an agenda such as drumming up a demand for their preferred cycling class and/or harassing cyclists, or in the case of this thread for harassing those mean ole motorists.

Ninety5rpm

That's like asking a person who used to drink and drive how sober driving has saved HIS life. He can't point to any particular situation and know how he would have behaved had he been drunk that would have threatened his life. Similarly, I don't know exactly where these practices have saved me. But the dearth of close calls is telling.

Ninety5rpm

Actually, cyclists and pedestrians are often responsible for causing their own deaths, and even where motorists were at fault some prudent defensive practices often would have saved the cyclists or pedestrians. So, I think educating the cyclists and even pedestrians could be highly effective. After all, they are the ones with skin in the game, and are therefore much more prone to care.

mr_bill

Actually, no.

-mr. bill

Maelochs

I started riding as an adult, after many years of walking, jogging, or running to work ... in the Greater Orlando area, before there was "cycling savvy," before there was "share the road," before there were bike lanes.

I am not real bright, either.

Somehow I figured out, "Don't get hit by cars is better." One step up from "Fire hot."

I have seen some <deleted> whose sig claims something like "position on the road is the greatest life-saver" or some such.

Reality tells me, Awareness is the primary survival trait. Cooperation is second.

Anyone who has "taken a lane" only to see a car go into oncoming traffic to make a pass and then cat off the cyclist to get ahead all withing 50 feet of a stop sign .... probably realizes that being heads-up is what counts. A car can hit you in the middle of the lane like it can hit you on the edge of the road. Just like stop signs don't stop cars, lane position doesn't either .... speaking as someone who got his first separated shoulder when a car ran a stop sign. Tell, me, why didn't the fact that i was in the middle of the lane save me?

I generally ride as far right as practical ... sort of, like the Law requires. I make sure I have room so a pothole or some debris isn't going to catch me out ... unless it is a big pothole or a big piece of debris. But a driver who won't give me a foot to pass won't give me a foot no matter where I am ... those that will, do.

If this guy can make a few bucks telling people what they should be able to figure out on their own ... good for him.

One thing I have figured out is that this guy's "In your face---I am a bicyclist" approach doesn't always work ... and pissing off already impatient people in cars might not hurt the cyclist ... but the poor sucker who does get his further down the road would probably ask you to be a bit more considerate and let the car by.

Ninety5rpm

That's not a very productive response.

Perhaps we're using different notions of how often constitutes "often" in "often responsible for causing their own deaths". Even if only 10% of cyclist deaths were caused by the cyclist, that would be about 60 per year in the US, or about one a week. That's what I mean by "often". What about you?

Ninety5rpm

I believe if someone just rode down the middle of the lane without communicating or cooperating with motorists what you imagine above might actually occur. I don't know for sure, because I haven't tried it. Have you?

What I have tried is something that CyclingSavvy calls "control and release". This does involve using the full lane by default, but also moving aside when safe and appropriate to release. My variation includes using a mirror so I can see traffic arrive behind me long before I can hear them, and plan accordingly: if it's not appropriate to immediately release, then I look back at them and nod. Knowing that I know they are there makes an enormous difference; they seem to greatly appreciate that, and accept that I'm in control. CyclingSavvy calls this "a dance you must lead".

You Lead the Dance ? CyclingSavvy

The result is excellent interactions with motorists. I hate being honked at or having any ire expressed towards me, and I have found that this is the best way to keep that behavior at bay. What I get instead is friendly waves and nods, and plenty of passing room. I recall incidents like "see a car go into oncoming traffic to make a pass and then cat off the cyclist", but that was years ago. These practices nip road rage in the bud, and keep motorists from doing that, and allow me to enjoy riding in all kinds of traffic, and be very safe doing so.

Are you really in Orlando? It would be create if you took a CyclingSavvy course, perhaps even from the founders, and let us know what you think.

https://register.cyclingsavvy.org/groups/orlando-metro

Maelochs

You needed to take a course to figure out that communicating with other people eases situations?

I knew how important communication with drivers was about a week after getting my driver's license. If you needed to be told that your survival chances increase, plus the world is a much better place, if we all communicate ... well, glad you learned.

Let me say this once more, to see if you can grasp it ...

Dude, I learned urban cycling in the most dangerous city in the nation, before there were bike lanes.

I survived. Pretty obviously I learned how to ride in dense, dangerous urban traffic safely.

Your pontificating might be helpful for a toddler ... but anyone who has come through years of commuting in Any city or even busy town knows all that stuff ... or they are dead.

Basic stuff. If a person can't figure this out on his or her own ... whether walking, biking in a car, on a horse ....

I still get the occasional shout from passing cars, because some people really do seem to think that bikes don't belong on the roadway. I love it when someone shouts "Get on the sidewalk!" when there is no sidewalk.

No, I left Orlando. But if you are serious, pay for the class and I will try to arrange some vacation time ... I have friends there I could visit and stay with if needed.

Otherwise .. I have read enough of what this guy says and I am not impressed. If you are, great. Tandempower has his trees, you have CyclingSavvy, I have truth, compassion, and tolerance. We all believe in something.

Except It-likes-to-bike. That person has his negativity, but I bet he doesn't believe in it ... he doesn't believe anything else people tell him.

That would be the person to take the course and report back. Hook him up with transport and tuition. That would make for some interesting posts.

njkayaker

Most cyclists start out with the understanding that they are supposed to be "riding in the gutter". Many of them stay there or give up cycling.

There are techniques to riding in traffic that people have figured-out earlier.

Telling riders "they have to communicate" isn't really teaching them how to do that.

Some cyclists might benefit from a course (or reading/etc) rather than learning how to do all that by themselves.