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A Professional Matter (Raleigh content)

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A Professional Matter (Raleigh content)

Old 07-07-19, 10:05 AM
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A Professional Matter (Raleigh content)

This is a spinoff of the Willie's Bicycles thread @ https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-v...e-60-pics.html

After trying to get my fingers on a Raleigh Pro Mk.IV for years, it looks like I've managed to snag two of them over the course of two months from local shops - plus the Mk.V that I got from my friend Jimmy.

Far left is the newcomer from Willie's. It's a 1975 Raleigh Pro Mk.IV that was the victim of his chroming guy. Even the headbadge is chromed over - I'm afraid to remove it and rivet on a normal badge. It's not a bad job, admittedly, but it looks rough as the Pro's build quality is about what you expect from Raleigh. The fork has a chromevalto job on it, and as such, I'm not convinced it is original to this frame - but it has the correct Davis crown, it doesn't have eyelets, and it's raked identical to the other '75 fork, and the steerer tube is the perfect length. I'm not arguing with that.

At center is the '75 Raleigh Pro Mk.IV that I acquired from another LBS - the one that needs the top tube repainted. Already have a painter lined up, but need to have the seatlug ears filled - they're pretty chewed up.

At right is the Pro Mk.V from Jimmy. I pulled way too many parts off of this a long time ago for some other builds, and I've got to rectify that as I sort out the other two.

Enjoy the photos.













-Kurt
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Old 07-07-19, 12:51 PM
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Nice photo layout.

Nice bikes.

If a 70s Pro in mink silver, size 59/60/61 came my way, I would have to bite.
(last time I typed that, someone PM'd me - but at $1800.00, I passed)
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Old 07-07-19, 02:42 PM
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As someone who recently acquired a restored and repainted Carlton Mk5 Professional frame, I shall follow this thread with great interest!

Given my Carlton's seat stays are now set to 130mm in width, I'm proceeding with a modern build. Only the wheels (carbon tubular rims) and headset have been sourced thus far.
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Old 07-07-19, 03:05 PM
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Nice!

And an excellent reminder to get one of my Raleighs back on the road.
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Old 07-07-19, 04:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Wildwood View Post
Nice photo layout.

Nice bikes.

If a 70s Pro in mink silver, size 59/60/61 came my way, I would have to bite.
(last time I typed that, someone PM'd me - but at $1800.00, I passed)
Full disclosure: While I like them and they're well known, they're not $1,800 dollars nice by any means. Lugwork is too rough, and you can easily get a Bob Jackson or similar English road bike with a better pedigree at that price.

Originally Posted by NatusEstInSuht View Post
As someone who recently acquired a restored and repainted Carlton Mk5 Professional frame, I shall follow this thread with great interest!

Given my Carlton's seat stays are now set to 130mm in width, I'm proceeding with a modern build. Only the wheels (carbon tubular rims) and headset have been sourced thus far.
Have any pics? Turns out both of the Mk.IV's are at 120, so I'm going to leave them at that. Don't really want to do any rear triangle respacing on either.

Originally Posted by non-fixie View Post
Nice!

And an excellent reminder to get one of my Raleighs back on the road.
The dark side says..."DO IT."

-Kurt
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Old 07-07-19, 05:11 PM
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Originally Posted by cudak888 View Post
Full disclosure: While I like them and they're well known, they're not $1,800 dollars nice by any means. Lugwork is too rough, and you can easily get a Bob Jackson or similar English road bike with a better pedigree at that price.



Have any pics? Turns out both of the Mk.IV's are at 120, so I'm going to leave them at that. Don't really want to do any rear triangle respacing on either.



The dark side says..."DO IT."

-Kurt
Here are some photos of the Mk5 frame. It was made in 1979.




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Old 07-07-19, 05:41 PM
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Originally Posted by NatusEstInSuht View Post
Here are some photos of the Mk5 frame. It was made in 1979.
Love it. Good thing it's a V too - spreading to 130 from 126mm gives me less worry than 120 to 130, even though most frames can take it (with a personal belief that this excludes Wisconsin-built Trek brake bridges...)

-Kurt
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Old 07-07-19, 06:53 PM
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There's always this one, wasn't $1800 and was very nice until it was damaged in shipping.

https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-v...-superb-2.html
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Old 07-07-19, 07:21 PM
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Originally Posted by merziac View Post
There's always this one, wasn't $1800 and was very nice until it was damaged in shipping.

https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-v...-superb-2.html
I'm hesitant to ask what happened. Is it at a point fixable by a framebuilder?

-Kurt
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Old 07-07-19, 07:34 PM
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And this one, it probably should be worth $1800.


@ about 50 sec. in, but the whole video is good.

Dave's a great guy, has a great shop, collection and crew.
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Old 07-07-19, 07:41 PM
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Originally Posted by cudak888 View Post
I'm hesitant to ask what happened. Is it at a point fixable by a framebuilder?

-Kurt
Oh it's fixable, mainly just paint but as we know something this nice rarely benefits from a complete that it doesn't need and there are other undisclosed issues that made me sick. It's languishing unnecessarily due to my disgust with the whole situation. I found a guy that was going to repair the affected area and got some compensation from BikeFlights but with the other problems I have been unable to move forward.


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Old 07-08-19, 10:49 PM
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Originally Posted by merziac View Post
Oh it's fixable, mainly just paint but as we know something this nice rarely benefits from a complete that it doesn't need and there are other undisclosed issues that made me sick. It's languishing unnecessarily due to my disgust with the whole situation. I found a guy that was going to repair the affected area and got some compensation from BikeFlights but with the other problems I have been unable to move forward.

Time heals all wounds...you'll get to it soon.

Funny thing, other than hanging up the Pro and the Bottecchia from Willies, all my own "plans" have gone south with both builds. Don't know what to concentrate on now...

-Kurt
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Old 07-09-19, 06:22 AM
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Originally Posted by merziac View Post
Oh it's fixable, mainly just paint but as we know something this nice rarely benefits from a complete that it doesn't need and there are other undisclosed issues that made me sick. It's languishing unnecessarily due to my disgust with the whole situation. I found a guy that was going to repair the affected area and got some compensation from BikeFlights but with the other problems I have been unable to move forward.

I wanted that bike very badly when I first saw it I ended up with a frame and fork '73 with birdsmouth lugs in the end at a more affordable rate. Disappointing that there were issues with the shipping and undisclosed issues as well. I thought it looked like it was one of the cleanest pros still around.
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Old 07-09-19, 12:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Narhay View Post
I wanted that bike very badly when I first saw it I ended up with a frame and fork '73 with birdsmouth lugs in the end at a more affordable rate. Disappointing that there were issues with the shipping and undisclosed issues as well. I thought it looked like it was one of the cleanest pros still around.
Yep, me too and it was/is from the pics, still beautiful and seller was great, still heartbreaking.
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Old 07-09-19, 07:07 PM
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On a happier note: I chose to do a bit of work on the Pro today. I verified that the fork was English threaded, and documented the unusual red paint job that was on it. This paint was also cleared over the chrome (one of my top five cosmetic pet peeves), so stripping the paint solved two things at once.



\


Clearcoat-be-gone:




Looks spiffy - despite that headbadge:






-Kurt
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Old 07-27-19, 08:01 AM
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Some new components arriveth. For better or worse, the BB and headset are Italian, and the seatpost is 26.8mm, but that only means that I’ll have a few future trades to make.

The Super Record group will make it onto the ‘78, and the ‘78 will donate its Nuovo bits to the chrome ‘75.

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Old 08-03-19, 11:43 PM
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I started mounting up the Super Record last weekend, but had to stop for lack of a post-CPSC English Campagnolo Nuovo Record BB (the donor bike has an Italian BB). Nevertheless, it fit the '78 frame nicely:






In the meantime, I was able to take the earlier Nuovo bits off and transfer them to the chrome '75:







Not shown are the pre-CPSC brake calipers that I got from @smontanaro for this build, as I'm waiting on 8mm stainless tubing to undo - from a fitment standpoint - the drilling for recessed brakes that someone did on this frame.

Otherwise, everything is going pretty smoothly, though I'm sure trying to replace the chromed headbadge ought to undo whatever smoothness there's been.

FYI, to anyone listening out there, I'm still short English headset bits (both Nuovo and Super) and the seatposts (I have a 26.8, and I need 27.2).

-Kurt
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Old 08-04-19, 10:12 AM
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Probably 3 weeks after I commented on your tt paint problem pro, and said something like "that's one of the bikes I'd really like to own", one appeared on one of the oddball websites for sale! It keeps the hobby fun, doesn't it?!?!
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Old 08-04-19, 04:07 PM
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Update - the 8mm stainless tubing arrived today. I had to file the holes a bit to smooth out the rough drilling job from the PO, but the stainless tubing finally slid through. Getting the tolerances right on the inside of the tubing took a good hour of filing that I could have easily done without.

The fit is pretty slick though!



The new stainless nylock nuts in the back don't look out of place either:





What I'm not thrilled about are the stainless domed nuts available from Ace Hardware. Though they'll do to keep the calipers functional, they're absolutely ugly. They look like some kind of Dia-Compe wart that made its way onto these calipers without an invitation.






Originally Posted by AngryFrankie View Post
Probably 3 weeks after I commented on your tt paint problem pro, and said something like "that's one of the bikes I'd really like to own", one appeared on one of the oddball websites for sale! It keeps the hobby fun, doesn't it?!?!
Were you able to snag it?

-Kurt
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Old 08-04-19, 06:38 PM
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Sure did! Millennial kid kept me on ice all weekend but finally got my mitts on the bike by late Sunday afternoon.
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Old 08-04-19, 10:03 PM
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Originally Posted by AngryFrankie View Post
Sure did! Millennial kid kept me on ice all weekend but finally got my mitts on the bike by late Sunday afternoon.
I have a feeling that's the future of C&V purchases - getting ghosted by young sellers who can't be arsed to follow up.

-Kurt
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Old 08-30-19, 10:28 PM
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Update: I haven't had any luck finding an English Nuovo headset (or upper race + locknut) for the chrome '75, and the seatlug ears on the other '75 are still pending my ability to coordinate a time with Mike Terraferma. Anyway, the modifications to the Raleigh Twenty video bike frameset takes priority over this, and I want to test out the same exact repair on a Carlton Kermesse I have here.

However, I finally got the '78 Raleigh Pro Mk.V buttoned up, thanks to a pair of post-CPSC English cups from @smontanaro, along with the matching spindle from @nesteel, who also traded me the necessary Super Record seatpost to get the job done. After finishing work on one of the three Andante track bikes today, I put it all together.



I'm really pleased with the way second-gen Super Record looks on it. The black accents contrast the light, delicate appearance of the mink blue (I still say this one carries the same color as the Mk.IV and there is no indication of the color varying any from my Mk.IV in areas where the clearcoat has not yellowed).

Building this with Super Record has some significance to me - this bike used to have a mix of weird, wannabe first-gen SR parts on it (including a genuine first-gen SR RD that had been repaired with a Nuovo outer plate which was then given five not-too-parallel drillium holes - pretty weird provenance there) that I severely regret selling off. The profits were essential to fund the purchase of that green Mopar in the background, but the intelligence of the Plymouth purchase remains highly questionable. In some ways, it was for the better: The hollow SR spindle flexed under torque...and scared the crap out of me.



My go-to pedal for Campag-equipped road bikes are MKS Sylvan track pedals - they're relatively easy to get, and I can run around like a Fred shoving my Oxfords in them - but I don't have any at the moment. Frankly, I'd rather not ride it until I've had a chance to ride my '61 Paramount and '82 Superior a few times. The Pro was always a riot on those tubulars, and I don't want to go from my '51 Raleigh to this and become picky.



Speaking of which, I put the large-rivet Pro from my '61 Paramount here, and the small-rivet on the Paramount. Looks better and fits the period, even if the large rivet is black (It'd look much better if it was the same brown as the bar wrap).



This bike didn't come to me with hoods, and eight years ago, repops were not as plentiful or easy to get. I threw on a pair of hoods that matches the ugliness of the rust and whatnot on this frame. I think they look the part remarkably well.



The drivetrain. Works perfectly, except the chain skates over the inner chainring on downshifts far too frequently. This might be another candidate for bulged Uniglide chain.

And here's a parting shot from my shed - Record cranks (every one a different variation or generation) in a row:




-Kurt
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Old 08-31-19, 01:26 AM
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I have a Nuovo Record Brit thread upper race and locknut. Both in gorgeous shape and would be perfect for your '75.

Wanna trade Brit for Italian?

Btw, the leather bar wrap on the '78 looks really cool - and it appears it wouldn't take much to bring it back to a uniform look. Also, if you're looking for hoods I know where you can get some nice re-pops cheap from a really nice guy

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Old 08-31-19, 07:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Drillium Dude View Post
I have a Nuovo Record Brit thread upper race and locknut. Both in gorgeous shape and would be perfect for your '75.

Wanna trade Brit for Italian?

Btw, the leather bar wrap on the '78 looks really cool - and it appears it wouldn't take much to bring it back to a uniform look. Also, if you're looking for hoods I know where you can get some nice re-pops cheap from a really nice guy

DD
I'm definitely up for that trade; I've had both my Italian SR and NR upper race + locknuts listed in ISO/For Trade for a while, with no bites (I've suggested time and again to the moderators that we need a separate ISO subforum so we're not paging through individual posts, Facebook-style).

Not sure if the condition is good enough for what you need though. Locknut isn't that pretty. Let's PM.

Come to think of it, the whole reason I wanted to swap the Italian SR headset for English parts was to put it on this '78 Pro - so technically, I'm not quite finished...yet.

-Kurt
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Old 09-05-19, 09:52 PM
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Does anyone have a 110mm 3TTT stem kicking about? I think I have the bars, but on a 90mm stem. Can get photos tomorrow.

-Kurt
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