Removing Regina two-prong freewheel from Phil Wood hub?
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Removing Regina two-prong freewheel from Phil Wood hub?
I'm sure once up a time I saw reference to a no-longer-produced Phil Wood tool for removing Regina freewheels (two-prong, not splined) from Phil Wood hubs. Does someone have a reference? My Google searching has so far not yielded any useful hits.
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Check with some local shops. If you’re not reusing the FW it might be worth a few bucks to just have someone else kick it loose
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Skip,
That tool is a specialty tool. It has two prongs and a ring around them to keep the lips of the freewheel from deforming during removal. And likely made of unobtainium, check with your local co-op or LBS. It is worth the price to have the right tool to remove this freewheel without destroying it. I don't have one and don't know of a source for one of them. Perhaps Park tools has one, but don't try the Suntour tool it will tear the freewheel tabs apart. HTH, MH
That tool is a specialty tool. It has two prongs and a ring around them to keep the lips of the freewheel from deforming during removal. And likely made of unobtainium, check with your local co-op or LBS. It is worth the price to have the right tool to remove this freewheel without destroying it. I don't have one and don't know of a source for one of them. Perhaps Park tools has one, but don't try the Suntour tool it will tear the freewheel tabs apart. HTH, MH
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Skip,
That tool is a specialty tool. It has two prongs and a ring around them to keep the lips of the freewheel from deforming during removal. And likely made of unobtainium, check with your local co-op or LBS. It is worth the price to have the right tool to remove this freewheel without destroying it. I don't have one and don't know of a source for one of them. Perhaps Park tools has one, but don't try the Suntour tool it will tear the freewheel tabs apart. HTH, MH
That tool is a specialty tool. It has two prongs and a ring around them to keep the lips of the freewheel from deforming during removal. And likely made of unobtainium, check with your local co-op or LBS. It is worth the price to have the right tool to remove this freewheel without destroying it. I don't have one and don't know of a source for one of them. Perhaps Park tools has one, but don't try the Suntour tool it will tear the freewheel tabs apart. HTH, MH
And it sounds like you can use the Dura ace freewheel removal tool or the Bicycle Research CT-1, both of which are (surprisingly) available on ebay. But they're not cheap.
Dura ace tool
Bicycle Research Tool
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Skip,
Contact Crandress the Crap Master I think he has one and he may lend it to ya. Smiles, MH
Contact Crandress the Crap Master I think he has one and he may lend it to ya. Smiles, MH
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Thanks for the suggestions. I have an Eldi tool, which works great on more typical hubs, though you have to remove the axle (small opening). My worry about any tool is that it might not clear the end cap (0.75-inch diameter), though the Shimano tool looks like it ought to work.
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Skip,
If you remove the axle you are more likely to get some better purchase on the free wheel body. HTH, MH
If you remove the axle you are more likely to get some better purchase on the free wheel body. HTH, MH
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Seems unlikely that removing the end cap will be easy, especially with the hub laced up into a wheel. From this VSalon post I quote:
Needless to say, I do not have said bearing press. I'm not sure what it looks like, but I wouldn't be surprised if it required the hub to be unlaced from the rim and for the freewheel to be removed first. I'd then be in a chicken-and-egg situation. I suspect the correct solution will be to find a suitable freewheel remover, such as the Dura-Ace or Bicycle Research tools mentioned in earlier posts.
Yes, there is a special Phil Wood bearing press that you need. The axle + bearings are all one assembly and press in and out with the tool. Not too hard once you've done it a few times and learn the tricks to doing it correctly.
Needless to say, I do not have said bearing press. I'm not sure what it looks like, but I wouldn't be surprised if it required the hub to be unlaced from the rim and for the freewheel to be removed first. I'd then be in a chicken-and-egg situation. I suspect the correct solution will be to find a suitable freewheel remover, such as the Dura-Ace or Bicycle Research tools mentioned in earlier posts.
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Seems unlikely that removing the end cap will be easy, especially with the hub laced up into a wheel. From this VSalon post I quote:
Needless to say, I do not have said bearing press. I'm not sure what it looks like, but I wouldn't be surprised if it required the hub to be unlaced from the rim and for the freewheel to be removed first. I'd then be in a chicken-and-egg situation. I suspect the correct solution will be to find a suitable freewheel remover, such as the Dura-Ace or Bicycle Research tools mentioned in earlier posts.
Needless to say, I do not have said bearing press. I'm not sure what it looks like, but I wouldn't be surprised if it required the hub to be unlaced from the rim and for the freewheel to be removed first. I'd then be in a chicken-and-egg situation. I suspect the correct solution will be to find a suitable freewheel remover, such as the Dura-Ace or Bicycle Research tools mentioned in earlier posts.
Now, with the splined bodies, that's not true, you need the Phil remover for that. But with the 2-prong, they all work equally well with Phil hubs as with Campy, Normandy or what-have-you. You absolutely do not have to remove any end-cap.
If there are any counter-examples, please provide a photo showing why it wouldn't work.
Mark B
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Tl-fw10
3 years ago I learned of this remover from this site. Just walked in to our biggest bike store in Dallas area (Richardson bike mart) and asked Jack the old time mechanic if he had a TL-FW10 remover. He said just a minute. Came back 5 minutes later with it in a box. He was so surprised I knew what to ask for he charged me the old sticker price that was on it. All of 8 bucks or so. We both had a good laugh.
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I still say your best bet is to find an old shop with with some old guy sporting a grey ponytail and Grateful Dead tshirt that starting his career with the Wright Bros. You need to get this in the hands of an experienced mechanic not the parts replacers we have today.
Another way may be to simply drill out a larger home in a tool that fits the notches.
Another way may be to simply drill out a larger home in a tool that fits the notches.
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I am guessing the OP's issue with it not fitting has to do with the axle being slightly too long or too large in diameter for the tool to properly engage the FW notches. I'd run into this sometimes on wheels respaced from 6 to 7 speed or even a pair of my own wheels that went from 7 to 8 speed. If you're careful you can get just enough drie side axle that the prongs don't engage well.
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Some two-prong tools like the Shimano TL-FW10 and the Bicycle Research CT-1 have a stabilizing ring that helps prevent damage to the delicate remover slots on the freewheel body. This make them the preferred tools for dealing with these freewheels.
Last edited by JohnDThompson; 05-10-20 at 08:29 AM.
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Some two-prong tools, e.g. the VAR-188, may not clear the Phil locknuts and require removing the axle in order to seat the tool. This makes it difficult to e.g. use the quick release to secure the tool in place.
Some two-prong tools like the Shimano TL-FW10 and the Bicycle Research CT-1 have a stabilizing ring that helps prevent damage to the delicate remover slots on the freewheel body. This make them the preferred tools for dealing with these freewheels.
Some two-prong tools like the Shimano TL-FW10 and the Bicycle Research CT-1 have a stabilizing ring that helps prevent damage to the delicate remover slots on the freewheel body. This make them the preferred tools for dealing with these freewheels.
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But the one I actually use is my Dura-Ace, with the reinforcing ring as John mentioned, it's the best of the three.
Since all three of my Regina removers fit over Phil hub axles, I was unaware that there were other, dumber designs out there. Who would put up with removing the hub axle to take a freewheel off? With your ball bearings falling on the floor and all that? I mean even if you don't have a Phil, which is a whole 'nother can o' worms, even more of a pain to get the axle out and then mount it and the bearings back in the shell. Oh yeah, later Phil hubs had a "field serviceable axle" but all my Phil hubs are the older kind, where removing and re-installing the axle is one step short of impossible for most people.
I see the Dura-Ace remover is available here (ebay) for $37.50 shipped. Definitely worth it to anyone who wants to work on a bike with Regina two-prong freewheel. Of course that sidesteps the question of why would you want to use that freewheel! That same freewheel was made with the Atom-style splined remover, and that's less likely to self-destruct while removing. But you might just like your two-prong -- I won't judge, I use a lot of dumb old bike parts just because they're old and I like 'em for some idiosyncratic reason. I have a bike in the stand right now with a two-prong Regina. Anyway, at the very least, you need to take it off one time even if only to to replace it.
Beware, the splined remover style of Regina only works with a Phil hub if you get the remover made by Phil Wood. Or maybe I shouldn't say that categorically -- maybe someone else made them too? But a regular Atom-style remover like the Var will not fit, you need a super thinwall remover, such as the one Phil used to sell. Ah, I see Park makes an Atom/Regina remover, but one reviewer (John M. Schubert) on Amazon said it does not fit over Phil or Campy. Not thinwall enough. Can anyone confirm? (I wonder if that's the John Schubert who used to be an editor at Bicycling magazine? If so, he's very smart and knowledgeable.) Yeah I know I'm going off topic, OP was asking about 2-prong, not spline.
I've had my Phil thinwall splined remover since the '70s and it hasn't broken yet, so it's a great tool if you can find one. Pretty much all 2-prong removers have to be thought of as expendable, in my experience. I've even broken 4-prong removers like Suntour Winner and Cyclo-Pans. Very upsetting to break a practically unobtainable Cyclo-Pans remover from the '70s. Big fan of the splined remover style, if and only if you can find a Phil remover. This guy on Flickr had one for sale a few months ago, might be worth asking him if it's still for sale. $20 seems like a bargain.
Mark B in Seattle
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'cuz that's all that was available at the time? At least that's what I recall. It was a few years ago and my memory ain't what it used to be. I don't have a ton of freewheels and more and more those I do have are seven-speed. Still, I'm stubborn and don't cold set my frames. I'd like to swap out the Regina for a SunTour Alpha (narrow six-speed) with a bit more generous big cog.
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I also have the Campy "i" tool (just the letter i) Regina remover that comes with the fully Campy toolkit from the '70s, and it fits over the Phil axle too.
Although if you have one of those new-fangled 13 tooth sprockets installed, you need to use the 704/1 "reducer insert" to reach the slots on the freewheel body. And then you lose the benefit of the stabilizer ring built into the 704 handle.
You could, of course, remove the smallest sprocket or two to use the 704 tool without the reducer insert, but that's a lot of bother.
Since all three of my Regina removers fit over Phil hub axles, I was unaware that there were other, dumber designs out there. Who would put up with removing the hub axle to take a freewheel off? With your ball bearings falling on the floor and all that? I mean even if you don't have a Phil, which is a whole 'nother can o' worms, even more of a pain to get the axle out and then mount it and the bearings back in the shell.
That same freewheel was made with the Atom-style splined remover, and that's less likely to self-destruct while removing. […] Beware, the splined remover style of Regina only works with a Phil hub if you get the remover made by Phil Wood. Or maybe I shouldn't say that categorically -- maybe someone else made them too?
I see Park makes an Atom/Regina remover, but one reviewer (John M. Schubert) on Amazon said it does not fit over Phil or Campy. Not thinwall enough. Can anyone confirm?
I've had my Phil thinwall splined remover since the '70s and it hasn't broken yet, so it's a great tool if you can find one.
N.B. even with the splined body, I feel Regina's overly complex sprocket fitting (multiple diameter and fitting patterns), and the body being design for a four-sprocket freewheel, with additional sprockets cobbled on to the outer sprockets rather than directly on the body, made them less than desirable in my view.
Last edited by JohnDThompson; 05-10-20 at 03:42 PM.
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Mark B
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Beware, the splined remover style of Regina only works with a Phil hub if you get the remover made by Phil Wood. Or maybe I shouldn't say that categorically -- maybe someone else made them too? But a regular Atom-style remover like the Var will not fit, you need a super thinwall remover, such as the one Phil used to sell. Ah, I see Park makes an Atom/Regina remover, but one reviewer (John M. Schubert) on Amazon said it does not fit over Phil or Campy. Not thinwall enough. Can anyone confirm?
I had a Phil splined remover, but it somehow got lost in a move a few years back. They do get destroyed from time to time. I've killed one or two in my day. This was using them every day in a shop though, for home use probably fine.
WRT the OP, I'm certain I've removed many many Regina freewheels from Phil hubs, and I am also certain I never had to remove the axle. I don't remember which tool was used. Probably whatever one out of the bin fit best, most likely a VAR.
I assume you know not to try this without a QR clamping the tool on, but I'll repeat it just in case. Never remove a freewheel from a hub without the tool firmly clamped to the freewheel with a QR.
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Phil hubs BITD came with an extra little tool, just a steel cup, intended to be put over the left side of the hub before the QR skewer went through the cup, hub and remover tool. This cup prevented the QR from moving the axle in the hub shell. Many mechanics threw this steel cup away, so there's a shortage of them now. But you don't really need one, if you're careful.
Salamandrine and other experienced mechanics know this, so I'm just posting this warning for the less-experienced or amateur mechanics: As soon as the freewheel starts to budge at all, you have to loosen the skewer. You don't have to remove it completely, just loosen it a little to give the freewheel some slack, room to thread off a little more. Once the freewheel is unthreading easily, and the remover tool no longer needs the QR holding it, only then should you remove the QR completely.
Splined removers don't need a QR holding them in, in my opinion. They have so much engagement that they are not likely to slip, if you're paying attention. Just one more reason I prefer the splined remover type.
Mark B
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But, warning #2 , be super careful removing any freewheel from a Phil hub, because the QR skewer holding the remover on will extract the axle (with bearings) from the hub shell! Helpful if that's what you wanted to do, but super annoying when you did not want the axle/bearings subassembly dragged right out of the shell, or even just shifted over by a couple mm (partial extraction).