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looking for a well made bike

Old 12-04-20, 11:34 AM
  #26  
icemilkcoffee
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Originally Posted by Drew Eckhardt View Post
Unfortunately you're only guaranteed strong chains with a 9+ cog bike (10 with Campagnolo) that comes from a bike shop.
Which brand 9+ speed chains have this flush rivet feature? Does KMC chains have this feature?
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Old 12-04-20, 11:37 AM
  #27  
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As this thread continues to meander, has anyone tried Hyperglide+?

From what I have read, it seems to work really well shifting under load. If that is the case, it will be a really nice feature and the trickle down from 12 speed to 9?, 10? will probably have some impact on the aftermarket competitors, SRAM, Sunrace, etc.

John
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Old 12-04-20, 11:57 AM
  #28  
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At least with a bike shop bike, you stand a fighting chance of the thing being assembled correctly, with the derailleur adjusted to minimize missed shifts. With a Wally bike, you're lucky if the saddle is installed in the right direction.
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Old 12-04-20, 12:09 PM
  #29  
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Originally Posted by Rolla View Post
At least with a bike shop bike, you stand a fighting chance of the thing being assembled correctly, with the derailleur adjusted to minimize missed shifts. With a Wally bike, you're lucky if the saddle is installed in the right direction.
In my immediate neighborhood, I have corrected TWO backward-installed forks. One on a child's bike (Dad's fault), and one on an adult MTB (discount store employee's fault). You can't make this stuff up.
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Old 12-04-20, 12:23 PM
  #30  
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Originally Posted by icemilkcoffee View Post
Which brand 9+ speed chains have this flush rivet feature? Does KMC chains have this feature?
To my knowledge, all common 9 speed chains except Campagnolo plus all chains for 10 or more cogs are flush riveted including KMC.

It's needed to prevent contact with the adjacent cog as you fit more into the same space

E.g. KMC X9.93



vs. SRAM PG-850 7 speed chain

Some chains for fewer cogs have the pin ends peened over like the KMC Z72 7/8 speed chain

but many if not most do not.

I'd bet against against an inexpensive non-bike store model coming with one due to the higher production cost from the peening operation, although obviously nothing precludes retrofitting one.

Last edited by Drew Eckhardt; 12-04-20 at 01:23 PM.
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Old 12-04-20, 12:28 PM
  #31  
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Originally Posted by Phil_gretz View Post
In my immediate neighborhood, I have corrected TWO backward-installed forks. One on a child's bike (Dad's fault), and one on an adult MTB (discount store employee's fault). You can't make this stuff up.
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Old 12-04-20, 12:32 PM
  #32  
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Originally Posted by Rolla View Post
Let's look on the bright side. The chains are holding up well, so far.
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Old 12-04-20, 01:46 PM
  #33  
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Looks like she definitely knows what she is doing at the gym, but she just isn't heavy or strong enough to be destroying parts like this from sheer force. How do men weighing 220lb or more not damage anything except for maybe a rear rim?

she should keep riding a cheap bike until learning how not to break stuff first.

Plus, the quality of a bike isn't nearly as imprktsnt as how well you fit on it, imo.
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Old 12-04-20, 02:05 PM
  #34  
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I recommend that the sister save up her allowance until she has $1500.00

Once she gets that amount in her piggy bank, visit a few bike shops.
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Old 12-04-20, 02:34 PM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by Moisture View Post
Looks like she definitely knows what she is doing at the gym, but she just isn't heavy or strong enough to be destroying parts like this from sheer force. How do men weighing 220lb or more not damage anything except for maybe a rear rim?

she should keep riding a cheap bike until learning how not to break stuff first.

Plus, the quality of a bike isn't nearly as imprktsnt as how well you fit on it, imo.

Can you bench press 450lbs? Begin male or female or whatever doesn't really matter. It sounds like and looks like she can put out some serious power. Serious power on cheap parts are more likely to break them. What is so hard to understand?

She should ride something that she can enjoy and not have to be delicate with. It should fit well but also she should be able to ride it with confidence and not have cheap parts that will break.
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Old 12-04-20, 05:47 PM
  #36  
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Originally Posted by veganbikes View Post
Can you bench press 450lbs? Begin male or female or whatever doesn't really matter.
What does benching 450 pounds have to do with riding a bike? Not to mention I hardly doubt she can bench 450. I'm a much bigger guy and I can't bench 450. But I can squat more than she can and I have neve broken a chain in 25 years. And that includes doing centuries with 12,000 ft of gain. I hardly doubt she has done that and the problem is that she is using cheap bikes and does not know how to ride efficiently.

Not to mention this is a troll thread as I have seen the full pic of the gal in another forum. Strange he decided to crop out the face on this site.
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Old 12-04-20, 08:04 PM
  #37  
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Originally Posted by Rolla View Post
I can see a dramatic level of thoughtfullness was involved with that one ^
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Old 12-04-20, 08:05 PM
  #38  
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Let's report this guy with too much time on his hands for trolling?
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Old 12-04-20, 11:32 PM
  #39  
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Old 12-05-20, 04:53 AM
  #40  
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Originally Posted by veganbikes View Post
Can you bench press 450lbs? Begin male or female or whatever doesn't really matter. It sounds like and looks like she can put out some serious power. Serious power on cheap parts are more likely to break them. What is so hard to understand? .
What is hard to understand is why anybody who knows cycling would think that a weightlifter is going to break a chain while using it normally.

According to Cycling Weekly, Andre Greipel hit ~1900 watts in a sprint. (https://www.cyclingweekly.com/news/r...blowing-359140) The ridiculously tall German sprinter with ridiculously tall hair (whose name escapes me at the moment) is reputed to have been clocked at 2600 watts. I am not gong to get into track riders, as they use wider, single-speed chains, but pro sprinters running 11-speed chains are often putting out enormous power.... when was the last time any of us saw a chain break during a sprint. I Never have and I have been watching cycling live and on the internet and TV for many, many years.

On another hand ... I have broken some chains, and every one of them broke while mis-shifting. "Could There Be a Correlation?", science asks sonorously,.

If this apocryphal massive sister weighs a lot, she will put more stress on a bike when riding hard .... but the Frame isn't breaking. She isn't bending levers with her titanic hand strength. The initial post is about breaking Chains.

People who know a little bit about riding multi-gear, chain-drive bikes with derailleurs know that chains break when shifted under extreme load or in extreme directions---once broke a chain trying too hard to shift down up front and up in the back at the base of a hill, and not easing off to do it because I was trying to follow a faster rider. I was too excited and did both shifts at once, sending the chain ends in two different directions.

I Barely put out three figures .... max is maybe 120 watts ... so I don't think Power was the issue here. (I don't do squats, but I can leg-press max about 260. I don't do bench presses .... nor do I pedal with my hands.)

What is so hard to understand is that some people who reputedly know bikes, ride bikes, maintain their bikes ... apparently don't know squat about bikes.
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Old 12-05-20, 05:31 AM
  #41  
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Originally Posted by cycletheworld78 View Post
Hi everyone,
I'm hoping someone can recommend a good mountain bike. My sister got into mounting biking this summer but is very hard on her bike especially up hill riding. She has broke a few chains already and damaged the gear shifters on some of the cheaper bikes. If anyone can recommend something from a rider with very strong legs.
Probably more to do with technique.

Note that even the most expensive bikes don't like being shifted under load. Completely back off the power during shifting. Thumb shifter damage is also caused by incorrect setup.

When climbing steeper, especially very steep gradients, shift to the right gear just before you begin the climb if you have little momentum (speed). If approaching the climb with lots of momentum, shift before the speed slows down to climb speed.

Avoid shifting in the middle of a very steep climb. There's really no way to do this with the drivetrain unloaded unless you're going up the gradient at ridiculous speeds.
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Old 12-05-20, 07:05 AM
  #42  
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Originally Posted by veganbikes View Post
Can you bench press 450lbs? Begin male or female or whatever doesn't really matter. It sounds like and looks like she can put out some serious power. Serious power on cheap parts are more likely to break them. What is so hard to understand?

She should ride something that she can enjoy and not have to be delicate with. It should fit well but also she should be able to ride it with confidence and not have cheap parts that will break.
What does a 450lb bench press have to do with this discussion?
Do you know the difference between a squat and a bench press or do you just have reading/comprehension issues?
And for whatever it’s worth, the random person in the fake pic the OP used certainly doesn’t look capable of bench pressing anything near 450lb.
I doubt the random person in the fake pic the OP used could break a bike chain with a hacksaw and a hammer.
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Old 12-05-20, 08:50 AM
  #43  
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There is nothing inherently implausible about breaking chains on an MTB. In early days of mountain biking chains broke with great regularity. Anyone with any sense always carried a chain tool and they got used. Most of the chain breakage would be from jumping hard for a climb or obstacle while shifting. MTB derailleurs in current production are enormously better at chain management than what we used thirty years ago. Low end bikes from Walmart will have derailleurs not particularly different from older derailleurs. Or rather derailleurs with older design and no quality.

Better shifting technique helps a lot. Better derailleurs matter just as much. Almost any new derailleur on above entry level bikes will not have the problem in OP. The Walmart bike will have other problems that overload chains. The alignment is unlikely to be much good. The chain is very likely to be substandard. Tooth shape will be basic.

Chains break at around 1500 pounds of pull. When pulling straight. When the chain is out of line, snarled, snatching against cogs or rings, they survive a whole lot less. Persons of normal strength can do it. Good bikes made the past twenty years and better than abysmal shifting technique it is real unlikely. But it still happens once in a while.
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Old 12-05-20, 08:57 AM
  #44  
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I have broken a quality chain on a full Ultegra bike, so I am not sure the quality of the derailleurs is that important. Bad shifting technique will snap a chain even with a rider who can't hit 150 watts.
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Old 12-05-20, 11:09 AM
  #45  
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Originally Posted by Maelochs View Post
I have broken a quality chain on a full Ultegra bike, so I am not sure the quality of the derailleurs is that important. Bad shifting technique will snap a chain even with a rider who can't hit 150 watts.
Oh sure, it is always possible to break a chain

Ultegra is mostly a road derailleur. I was thinking MTB. If you think you might break another chain in this lifetime you might want to look at an Ultegra RX with the MTB style clutch mechanism. And it would still be possible to break a chain, though less likely.

The promise of SIS and Hyperglide and every innovation since has been that it would be possible to shift anytime under full power without thinking. Not quite true. Still, when I say shifting technique to newer riders who have always had good stuff only they tend not to know what I am talking about. Push the button, get a shift is all they know and that approach works well enough for them.

Old time MTB riding did involve lots of breakage. I distinctly remember a three hour ride five of us did and the chain tool was used 7 times. I was the only one with a tool and I was pretty popular that day. This would have been 1991 or 1992. Even five years later this story would be real unlikely. Newer derailleurs are a whole lot better.
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Old 12-05-20, 12:40 PM
  #46  
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Old-tike (Lol.... 1990s) MTBs ... chains were gigantic to deal with 48-36 gearing and such, and chain-suck, chain-slap, chain-leaping and chain-acrobatics of every sort were rampant. Indexed RD, friction FD, (Shimano trigger shifters with Index on-off switches .... )

I make so many "bad" shifts nowadays because ... I can. I don't think about it much because other than some ugly clunking noises .... no problem most of the time. it is humorous and a little mystifying to me that i used to be able to practically left a certain number of links off one ring and drop it or lift it to the next ring .... and I knew just how long to ease up on rear shifts .... I have gotten spoiled and super-lazy.
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Old 12-05-20, 06:57 PM
  #47  
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Originally Posted by 63rickert View Post
Oh sure, it is always possible to break a chain

Ultegra is mostly a road derailleur. I was thinking MTB. If you think you might break another chain in this lifetime you might want to look at an Ultegra RX with the MTB style clutch mechanism. And it would still be possible to break a chain, though less likely.
With road derailleur, you should avoid shifting in extremely bumpy road sections anyway. Washboarded asphalt is an example of what could easily wreak havoc on a drivetrain.

Coast over these sections and then to soft-pedal once over the bumpy section (to check or settle the chain if the chain has skipped a cog or anything with no load). I deal with Paris-Roubaix quality paved roads everyday in a gravel bike with road drivetrain, 20 mph. Never broken a chain and mine's are only dirt cheap ones.
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Old 12-07-20, 07:48 PM
  #48  
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Learned stuff

Never thought about limiting power for shifting a MTB, but I’m just learning about cycling after a 20year hiatus.

Totally makes sense. How much less work do car synchros need to do if you match RPM?

On a motorcycle a clutch isn’t even helpful after launch if you chop throttle.

Who else has downshifted to many gears and forgot to make sure the clutch hub speed was matched? “Hop hop, chatter chatter” whoops, pull clutch in.
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Old 12-08-20, 07:09 AM
  #49  
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I've seen a friend snap a derailer hangar clean in half shifting down through multiple gears while pedalling out of the saddle going up a short steep hill. Youre unlikely to break or damage the derailer itself.

You don't need to limit power much by shifting up or down one gear at a time if the ratios are well spaced from one another. In general It is always best to shift very gently though.
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Old 12-11-20, 03:54 PM
  #50  
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Sometimes I read the first thread of a post and think of throwing a bucket of gumballs down the stairs in front of the state mental asylum.
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