Ok I did a second trip . . . this time camping out - hammock questions.
03-26-11, 01:11 AM
#26
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As everyone above me has said, if not as explicitly, hammocks are neither cold nor dangerous if you use them correctly. For cold, I directly addressed that in my previous post. If you're cold in a hammock, you're doing it wrong.
Dangerous? Well, I suppose that's a matter of opinion. I've never fallen out of my hammock when asleep. I don't know of anyone who has. On rare occasion I've heard of a properly hung hammock breaking, but 90% of the time it's because someone underestimated the load and tried to hang off a clothline.
That's not to say they don't have disadvantages, my hammock almost never gets taken camping because my fiancee likes to cuddle. I haven't found a way to solve that one yet.
Dangerous? Well, I suppose that's a matter of opinion. I've never fallen out of my hammock when asleep. I don't know of anyone who has. On rare occasion I've heard of a properly hung hammock breaking, but 90% of the time it's because someone underestimated the load and tried to hang off a clothline.
That's not to say they don't have disadvantages, my hammock almost never gets taken camping because my fiancee likes to cuddle. I haven't found a way to solve that one yet.
03-26-11, 02:19 AM
#27
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--I use the stuff sack method to make a pillow, not super comfy but works. I'm thinking of buying one of those inflatable pillows.
I find it unlikely that cobbling together a hammock/netting/tarp/line would be as cost/comfort effective (in the long run) to buying a commercial camping hammock.
Last edited by Camel; 03-26-11 at 02:20 AM. Reason: It's a secret...
03-26-11, 03:47 AM
#28
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"That premium price seems to cover the store's cost for dealing with the returns."
REI, premium price over whom? Anyway, a single return normally eats up the profit of 10 purchases. Unless they have a deal where they stuff it to their supplier, in which case I guess it depends one how enormous they are. I don't normally return much, but it's up to the store to set that policy, so be my guest. I do consider whether I want to deal with places that are too generous with their policies since it just drives up my costs or affects the product.
It seemed pretty much impossible to fall out of a henessey. I though it was pretty cool. I didn't find it comfortable, and now with the chiro crap, I think I am done with it. I guess I should return it.
Tactically, I would hate to mount a defense from within a Henessey, but I admit the chances of that are pretty remote. Unless that New Jersey bear wants to spoon. As a father with four girls, there is some cyclicality when that isn't out of the questions.
REI, premium price over whom? Anyway, a single return normally eats up the profit of 10 purchases. Unless they have a deal where they stuff it to their supplier, in which case I guess it depends one how enormous they are. I don't normally return much, but it's up to the store to set that policy, so be my guest. I do consider whether I want to deal with places that are too generous with their policies since it just drives up my costs or affects the product.
It seemed pretty much impossible to fall out of a henessey. I though it was pretty cool. I didn't find it comfortable, and now with the chiro crap, I think I am done with it. I guess I should return it.
Tactically, I would hate to mount a defense from within a Henessey, but I admit the chances of that are pretty remote. Unless that New Jersey bear wants to spoon. As a father with four girls, there is some cyclicality when that isn't out of the questions.
03-26-11, 06:51 AM
#29
Senior Member
That was the last thing I ever expected to hear as to why a hammock is dangerous.
I mean, I guess I fell out of a bed a few times, but I was either really drunk or having a nice time...
Falling branches, snapping ropes, Something better please. Like any outdoor sleeping arangment always check for widow maker tree limbs, and have your gear in good condition.
I mean, I guess I fell out of a bed a few times, but I was either really drunk or having a nice time...Falling branches, snapping ropes, Something better please. Like any outdoor sleeping arangment always check for widow maker tree limbs, and have your gear in good condition.
Marc
03-26-11, 04:14 PM
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Falling out of a hammock is ludicrous and rare accident.
That's like saying you need to sleep on the ground at home, because you might roll out of your 4 foot high bed whilst sleeping.
Im sure it has happened, but it isnt a legitimate concern at all...
there are actually dangers when bike touring or camping, but this is not one of them.
Incidentally, the henessy hammock is a tube - it is literally impossible to fall out of that model.
That's like saying you need to sleep on the ground at home, because you might roll out of your 4 foot high bed whilst sleeping.
Im sure it has happened, but it isnt a legitimate concern at all...
there are actually dangers when bike touring or camping, but this is not one of them.
Incidentally, the henessy hammock is a tube - it is literally impossible to fall out of that model.
03-27-11, 01:46 AM
#32
Full Member
I've used a normal and ultra light hennesey hammock, and had no problem with either, in fact I'd recommend them, with all the caveats mentioned by other posters here, particularly the warmth aspect. It is colder than you'd expect even though you're off the ground.
03-27-11, 07:54 AM
#33
Senior Member
I have a great big Hennessey complete with snake skins and extra stuff, and have used it across outback Australia where there are/were trees. The US Seals, US Rangers and other militaries use them - issued or because of private purchase of extra kit. "Falling out" of a Hennessey is a red herring. 
That said, as I was reading the following note I wondered what the future will bring regarding the return of next-to-skin "things" in the USA - sleeping bags, clothing and ... I understand that for hygenic reasons underwear cannot be tried on prior to purchase, and not returned if the sealed package is unsealed... If returns are permitted then it will be "for disposal/destruction" and that could drive prices up, given the need for hygene...
Mind you, I note that dumpster dumping does persist in sectors of society - but possibly not with BF frequenters??
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/...rticle1954412/
Just wondering, not fanning embers.
That said, as I was reading the following note I wondered what the future will bring regarding the return of next-to-skin "things" in the USA - sleeping bags, clothing and ... I understand that for hygenic reasons underwear cannot be tried on prior to purchase, and not returned if the sealed package is unsealed... If returns are permitted then it will be "for disposal/destruction" and that could drive prices up, given the need for hygene...
Mind you, I note that dumpster dumping does persist in sectors of society - but possibly not with BF frequenters??
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/...rticle1954412/
Just wondering, not fanning embers.
03-27-11, 08:21 AM
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Suing is the civilized alternative to dispensing one's own justice. If the customer had shot the clerk who handed over a boiling cup of coffee, that, no doubt, would have been much more outrageous.
03-27-11, 08:25 AM
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There is the occasional thread here of those advocating dumpster diving. There seems no clear demarcation between bicycle touring and being homeless-on-a-bike.
03-27-11, 08:34 AM
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During extended tours in the Western US I have kept track of whether suitable sites for hammocks existed at the campgrounds I stayed at. It was less than 50%. Now, if I were stealth camping and purposely looking for appropriate hammock sites, then maybe the percentage, by definition, would be close to 100%. I dunno. But before getting a hammock the first question that I would have to settle for myself was whether I wanted to stealth camp nearly all the time. For me that's a resounding "no".
03-27-11, 09:06 AM
#37
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Taking responsibilty for one's own actions and the consequences of doing so is IMHO more civilized than suing and shooting (out of pique, perhaps). But then I don't hang my hat in the USA ....
03-27-11, 09:13 AM
#38
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During extended tours in the Western US I have kept track of whether suitable sites for hammocks existed at the campgrounds I stayed at. It was less than 50%. Now, if I were stealth camping and purposely looking for appropriate hammock sites, then maybe the percentage, by definition, would be close to 100%. I dunno. But before getting a hammock the first question that I would have to settle for myself was whether I wanted to stealth camp nearly all the time. For me that's a resounding "no".
03-27-11, 04:53 PM
#39
Senior Member
Knowing the facts about something is also part of civilized debate, but you seem to not believe that, either.
03-27-11, 05:55 PM
#40
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Really, www.hammockforums.net
Introduce yourself and ask your questions there.....a bunch of friendly folks with a wealth of actual hammock experience.
I only use a hammock when I tour...Hennessey explorer ultralight. I 've had to use it as a bivy twice when I was forced to ground by a lack of hanging options. I found those two experiences no less comfortable than sleeping in a small tent.
Cyril
Introduce yourself and ask your questions there.....a bunch of friendly folks with a wealth of actual hammock experience.
I only use a hammock when I tour...Hennessey explorer ultralight. I 've had to use it as a bivy twice when I was forced to ground by a lack of hanging options. I found those two experiences no less comfortable than sleeping in a small tent.
Cyril
03-27-11, 06:28 PM
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The customer was served coffee that was unreasonably hot. Why the unvarnished animosity against the USA? I'm sure that not everything is peachy where you come from either. Why don't you tell us so we can mindlessly knock your country too.
Last edited by Cyclesafe; 03-27-11 at 07:08 PM.
03-27-11, 06:29 PM
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light gear options
A couple of years ago with zero touring experience l bought a used 520 Trek put a front rack on it and bought panniers and went from Ohio to Niagra Falls and back. About 8 days all total. I camped every night and used a Kelty Crestone 1. Plenty big enough and it had for it's size a rather large fly extension on one side. Two panniers went inside the tent and two went under the fly. My shoes tucked up under the opposite side of the fly. I used a standard size Thermarest and took a pillow case. To make a nice pillow I simply placed my clothes inside the pillow case . Nice and pretty fluffy. I still have the thermarest but now I use the orange one that you can fold into a very small 8" long roll.
Plenty of ventilation and vents and if it';s a stary night and no rain leave the fly off and gaze at the stars! Wardie
Plenty of ventilation and vents and if it';s a stary night and no rain leave the fly off and gaze at the stars! Wardie
03-27-11, 06:38 PM
#43
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I have seen that difference in perception as "a person C" at the event not involved with either person A and person B. Much of what happens is neither black nor white, but varying shades of grey YMMV.
We seem to be having that type of situation on BF - lots of various discussion and differences in opinion, sometimes give-and-take, and sometimes not
We live where we live and do what we do. Nothing is perfect, and no country or society is "best". Every place has its warts. I frankly DO NOT care how things are done in countries where I don't live. However, it does make me think about the hows and the whys going on ...
Last edited by tmac100; 03-27-11 at 06:49 PM.
03-27-11, 07:30 PM
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'bout hammocks being dangerous... well, this probably isn't the norm, but I've had a few uncomfortable incidents with my henessy hammock.
The first time was on a boat trip down the Mississippi. We rarely set camp before dark, and this one night I was having a hard time finding a spot to hang my hammock. By the time I found suitable trees, I was too tired to do a real close inspection. The following morning, I got up to find what seemed like a great big strong tree was a bleached skeleton, barely holding itself upright. Another time, while car camping, I accidentally tied it onto a dead ironwood. It looked for all the world like a healthy young tree. I suppose ironwoods, being as dense are they are, don't rot out so quickly and noticeably. I woke up falling, and fortunately the ironwood caught itself on another tree right as my butt hit the ground.
After the bear comments, I can't help but compare a hammock to a candy wrapper
Worst I ever had on that account was a curious young raccoon bumping me with it's nose.
The incidents above where my own mistakes and don't really color my perception of the hammock, but I found I really didn't care for it. It's too cramped, makes me feel too vulnerable, and I'm not quite sure what I'd do in a treeless campsite on a stormy night. For camping in the autumn, I ended up carrying such a bulky sleeping bag and thick pad that I may as well have taken a tent. I'd much prefer the tent.
The first time was on a boat trip down the Mississippi. We rarely set camp before dark, and this one night I was having a hard time finding a spot to hang my hammock. By the time I found suitable trees, I was too tired to do a real close inspection. The following morning, I got up to find what seemed like a great big strong tree was a bleached skeleton, barely holding itself upright. Another time, while car camping, I accidentally tied it onto a dead ironwood. It looked for all the world like a healthy young tree. I suppose ironwoods, being as dense are they are, don't rot out so quickly and noticeably. I woke up falling, and fortunately the ironwood caught itself on another tree right as my butt hit the ground.
After the bear comments, I can't help but compare a hammock to a candy wrapper
Worst I ever had on that account was a curious young raccoon bumping me with it's nose.The incidents above where my own mistakes and don't really color my perception of the hammock, but I found I really didn't care for it. It's too cramped, makes me feel too vulnerable, and I'm not quite sure what I'd do in a treeless campsite on a stormy night. For camping in the autumn, I ended up carrying such a bulky sleeping bag and thick pad that I may as well have taken a tent. I'd much prefer the tent.
03-27-11, 07:54 PM
#45
Senior Member
I don't believe you. You're willing to make ignorant statements about things you clearly are not informed about, in an effort to make a political point that has nothing to do with hammocks or bicycle touring generally.
I much prefer tents. They're not as nice when it's hot, and perfectly dry, but the 90% of the time it isn't, it's nice to not have to worry that the weather will change.
I much prefer tents. They're not as nice when it's hot, and perfectly dry, but the 90% of the time it isn't, it's nice to not have to worry that the weather will change.
03-27-11, 09:11 PM
#46
Senior Member
I don't believe you. You're willing to make ignorant statements about things you clearly are not informed about, in an effort to make a political point that has nothing to do with hammocks or bicycle touring generally.
I much prefer tents. They're not as nice when it's hot, and perfectly dry, but the 90% of the time it isn't, it's nice to not have to worry that the weather will change.
I much prefer tents. They're not as nice when it's hot, and perfectly dry, but the 90% of the time it isn't, it's nice to not have to worry that the weather will change.
It just so happens that I travel the world and do not even vote in my country of citizenship: I am not there and I cannot vote in absentia. A fact that does not make my citizenry better/worse than your country of citizenship. Live how you want, and as I stated, I still wonder about those quirky (to me) situations "exposed" by the media where folks do stupid things according to the "facts" presented by the media - and then sue successfully. No flames please as they won't change my perception about taking responsibility for one's actions. You mentioned political points - not me. I merely pointed out that those suits occurred in the USA - not in France or... If such situations were presented in canadian/French/ CIS media then that would NOT change my perception of the stupidity of not taking responsibility for one's actions. Now you tell me - would it change your opinion and sensitivity towards my comments about the stupidity of those situations?
I want to end my "political points" (as you seem to think and indicate). You dismiss my comments so all I can say is: no more soapbox stuff - no one is going to win this one.
Back to the tent issue versus hammock issue ... I use both in various situations ... simply because one has an advantage over the other. In outback Australia the savannah is great for hammocks, but not in the desert with no vegetation. In some parts of the world there are no trees - absolutely none. For instance in the Gulf region, in and near "the Empty Quarter" a tent is the only way to go - but then long steel pegs made or re-bar are needed as there are no rocks, etc to use as anchors and the ordinary pegs sold in Europe and N.America (but probably made in china) provide absolutely no anchor in the sand. By Empty Q. I mean nothing but sand - no animals and no vegetation of any kind for over 100 km....
Last edited by tmac100; 03-28-11 at 01:47 PM. Reason: typo
04-05-11, 01:50 AM
#47
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Yay, pointless arguments.
Anyway, to the OP: The primary reason you were uncomfortable that night was having no sleeping mat. A mat is 200% essential. Give it another shot with a mat and see how it goes.
I can also recommend a hammock. I have a Grand Trunk Ultralight Skeeter Beeter that weighs 20 ounces including suspension and a bug net and gives me the best night's sleep I'd imagined possible camping. My only uncomfortable nights were when it was cold and windy - but as for the wind, it was my own fault for not hanging a tarp to shelter me, and as for the cold, the wind contributes to that, and if I'd had a tarp up, my sleeping mat and sleeping bag would have been enough to keep warm, I think. You can also look into the expensive option of underquilts, which I may when I have more money to spare.
You can get the same hammock I have for like 60 bucks new, or else the same hammock but without the bug net for 20 bucks. I'd say that given the amount of comfort you gain from it, you owe it to yourself to try it out.
As for cold, yeah. But sleeping pads will insulate you and if it's windy, an a-frame tarp will shelter you. Dangerous? BS. You won't fall out, and the main danger is in you picking dead/unhealthy trees, or ones with dead branches. As with sleeping on the ground, pick your site to avoid such dangers and you're good to go.
Anyway, to the OP: The primary reason you were uncomfortable that night was having no sleeping mat. A mat is 200% essential. Give it another shot with a mat and see how it goes.
I can also recommend a hammock. I have a Grand Trunk Ultralight Skeeter Beeter that weighs 20 ounces including suspension and a bug net and gives me the best night's sleep I'd imagined possible camping. My only uncomfortable nights were when it was cold and windy - but as for the wind, it was my own fault for not hanging a tarp to shelter me, and as for the cold, the wind contributes to that, and if I'd had a tarp up, my sleeping mat and sleeping bag would have been enough to keep warm, I think. You can also look into the expensive option of underquilts, which I may when I have more money to spare.
You can get the same hammock I have for like 60 bucks new, or else the same hammock but without the bug net for 20 bucks. I'd say that given the amount of comfort you gain from it, you owe it to yourself to try it out.
As for cold, yeah. But sleeping pads will insulate you and if it's windy, an a-frame tarp will shelter you. Dangerous? BS. You won't fall out, and the main danger is in you picking dead/unhealthy trees, or ones with dead branches. As with sleeping on the ground, pick your site to avoid such dangers and you're good to go.
04-06-11, 01:15 AM
#48
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Hammocks and bicycles travel well together...
But what has been mentioned is true: you must have bottom insulation. Notice the quilt hanging from below. You can start with some wal-mart ccf foam, or try this stuff, which is really nice:
https://gossamergear.com/sleeping/1-4-wide.html
There is a bit of a learning curve, and hopefully if you choose to pursue it, you too are rewarded with the comfort and packability that makes hammocking so addictive.
But what has been mentioned is true: you must have bottom insulation. Notice the quilt hanging from below. You can start with some wal-mart ccf foam, or try this stuff, which is really nice:
https://gossamergear.com/sleeping/1-4-wide.html
There is a bit of a learning curve, and hopefully if you choose to pursue it, you too are rewarded with the comfort and packability that makes hammocking so addictive.
04-06-11, 01:51 PM
#49
friction baby, friction
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So you bought an item and used it, and now want your money back?? And you admit it wascheap. You want something "good but cheap"? Huh? Only in America!!
Sounds like you want a retailer to MAKE you happy at your convenience and at their expense.! If I am not mistaken, there is No indication that the bovy was defective or .. So WHY are you retuning it (with the implication that you will get your money back).
Am I missing something here about consumer behaviour in the USA? It sounds like the case of the lady spilling HOT coffee on herself while driving (after taking the lid off the coffee cup) and successfully suing the vendor for getting scalded/burned. Sounds like you don't want to take responsibility for your actions...
That said, maybe you should forget about camping and bicycling and stay home in your nice warm bed - and suing the bed maker because you found the bed too soft or too lumpy, or..
Sheesh! After reading such opinions I am happy to be out bicycling in places away from the USA. Seriously!
Don't get me wrong, because I have spent a bunch of time in the USA and have wonderful experiences there, but attitudes like yours remind me that I should be away from folks and attitudes like yours. Africa and Australia remind me of such "away from" places
that are pleasant, safe, and enjoyable - and where folks take responsibility for their own actions.
Take responsibility for YOUR actions and beliefs.
Rant mode off
Sounds like you want a retailer to MAKE you happy at your convenience and at their expense.! If I am not mistaken, there is No indication that the bovy was defective or .. So WHY are you retuning it (with the implication that you will get your money back).
Am I missing something here about consumer behaviour in the USA? It sounds like the case of the lady spilling HOT coffee on herself while driving (after taking the lid off the coffee cup) and successfully suing the vendor for getting scalded/burned. Sounds like you don't want to take responsibility for your actions...
That said, maybe you should forget about camping and bicycling and stay home in your nice warm bed - and suing the bed maker because you found the bed too soft or too lumpy, or..
Sheesh! After reading such opinions I am happy to be out bicycling in places away from the USA. Seriously!
Don't get me wrong, because I have spent a bunch of time in the USA and have wonderful experiences there, but attitudes like yours remind me that I should be away from folks and attitudes like yours. Africa and Australia remind me of such "away from" places
that are pleasant, safe, and enjoyable - and where folks take responsibility for their own actions.Take responsibility for YOUR actions and beliefs.
Rant mode offThat's right. Only in America is there a concept of 'satisfaction guaranteed'. You should be so lucky. It sounds to me like the retailer wanted to make a profit at episodic's expense by selling him an inferior product. It wasn't like he bought a bivey to use 1 time then return it. He didn't like it, so he took it back. What was he supposed to do, test it out in the store overnight? If the manufacturer wants to stay in business, he should make a better product.
How does returning a product you aren't satisfied with equate with a lady suing McDs for spilling a coffee on herself? I don't get it.
Africa. Pleasant, safe and enjoyable? Are you talking about Capetown, one of the 5 most dangerous cities in the world? Or maybe Somalia, where there is no central govt. and no law. Or Libya, a country run by a dictator/thug/terrorist who blew a jet out of the sky with over 300 innocent people on board. Maybe your talking about Sierra Leone. I hear the diamond mines are very PLEASANT in the fall. Gambia is safe and pleasant...if your not gay. Prez Yahya vowed to cut off the head of any *****exual caught in his country. Then there is Morroco, Eygpt, Algeria and Tunisia, where torture is common and they send you to prison for blasphemy.
The USA is not perfect. No country is. But I am sick and tired of people bashing us. The good of this nation and her people GREATLY exceeds the bad. America is an exceptional place whether you love it or hate it. Americans are ALWAYS the first in line to lay down their lives for complete strangers half-way round the world. If it wasn't for America and HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS of US soldiers who DIED in the name of freedom, half of Europe would be speaking german right now. We give more money for foreign aid than all of the other countries in the world combined. We are always the first to respond in a big way to natural disasters(2004 tsunami/Haiti earthquake etc. etc.).
To all you people who do not live in the USA, take notice... There is a MAJOR bias against the US by our own media. We have enemies within. Do not believe everything you hear on a 30sec sound byte. Do your due diligence and you might be pleasantly suprised at what you find.
For all of you out there who seem to despise my country, here is a short, yet incomplete list of AMERICAN inventions that changed the world and made your life
a little more safe, enjoyable and pleasant. God bless America.
the telephone...cell phone...light bulb...radio...integrated circuit...personal computer...internet...digital camera...digital video recorder...compact disc...computer mouse...email...voice mail...zip files...video tape...lazer printer...carbon-fiber...
fiber glass...kevlar...goretex...spandex...nylon...plastic...rubber... teflon...
lazer...GPS...LED...communication satallite...weather satallite...solar cell...air conditioning...refridgerator...washing machine...dishwasher...vacuum cleaner... ...microwave oven...sewing machine...garbage disposal...
elect iron...elect fan...thermostat...doorbell...smoke detector...cable tv...video games...
ac motor...elect guitar...radio telescope...traffic light...remote control...radio direction finder...auto pilot...cruise control...windsurfing...mt. biking...snowboard...wetsuit...
skateboard...kite surfing...water skiing...surfboard skeg...swim fins...roller skates...
personal watercraft...internal frame backpack...
Google Earth...Youtube...Myspace...Microsoft...Twitter...Apple...radio carbon dating...
atomic clock...credit card...magnetic swipe on credit card...bar code...acrylic paint...
DEET...cat litter...ziploc bags...air bags...sun glasses...polarized sunglasses...freon...
phillips head screw...skyscrapers...segway...schrader valve...suspension bridge...
fire-hydrant...catalytic converter...elect drill... circular saw...jackhammer... wrench...
ratchet...cash register...metal detector...photographic film...blue jeans...bubble gum
tattoo gun...mouse trap...bottle cap...luggage...BBQ charcoal...fortune cookie...
heart transplant...bone marrow transplant...hepatitis b vaccine...polio vaccine...
chemotherapy...MRI...CPR...PET scan...nicotene patch...hearing aid...dental floss...
and on and on.........God bless AMERICA