Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Road Cycling
Reload this Page >

Loss of Civility

Notices
Road Cycling ďIt is by riding a bicycle that you learn the contours of a country best, since you have to sweat up the hills and coast down them. Thus you remember them as they actually are, while in a motor car only a high hill impresses you, and you have no such accurate remembrance of country you have driven through as you gain by riding a bicycle.Ē -- Ernest Hemingway

Loss of Civility

Old 08-23-19, 01:01 PM
  #1  
viffer
Live to Ride
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 11
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Loss of Civility

So I was fixing a flat on the sidewalk by the side of the road yesterday when somebody actually tried to back into the space and run me over while I was working on the bike. Now he absolutely had to see me sitting there, it was pretty obvious.

But it got me thinking just how much the world has changed recently. Not a single person walking or driving by stopped to ask if I was OK. I could have been run over, injured, bike down and sprawled all over the sidewalk but no one even bothered giving me a single look. A couple of guys even laughed at me while walking by saying look at this fool trying to fix his own bike, as if I had a choice. The guy who almost backed into me was the last straw.

Now Iíve always been pretty self-sufficient, carry spares and tools and am able to fix most things on the road.

I donít expect anyone to ever offer to help me, all I ask is you not harrass me or run me over. Just leave me alone and Iím fine. But like I said, the callousness and loss of civility of a lot of people these days is still shocking.
viffer is offline  
Old 08-23-19, 01:11 PM
  #2  
joelcool
Senior Member
 
joelcool's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Folsom, CA
Posts: 279

Bikes: Road, Commuter, Mountain, Tandem and a couple others

Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 82 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 20 Times in 18 Posts
I had a flat yesterday and every 2-5 minutes someone asked if I had everything I needed. Go figure.
joelcool is online now  
Likes For joelcool:
Old 08-23-19, 01:21 PM
  #3  
TimothyH
- Soli Deo Gloria -
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Northwest Georgia
Posts: 14,784

Bikes: 2018 Rodriguez Custom Fixed Gear, 2017 Niner RLT 9 RDO, 2015 Bianchi Pista, 2002 Fuji Robaix

Mentioned: 233 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6822 Post(s)
Liked 652 Times in 410 Posts
I find it difficult to believe that someone intentionally tried to run you over.

If a motorist wanted you dead then you would not be here to post about the incident.


-Tim-
TimothyH is offline  
Old 08-23-19, 01:23 PM
  #4  
Lemond1985
Sophomore Member
 
Lemond1985's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Posts: 1,938
Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1141 Post(s)
Liked 448 Times in 302 Posts
Originally Posted by joelcool View Post
I had a flat yesterday and every 2-5 minutes someone asked if I had everything I needed. Go figure.
That must be the same phenomenon where if you walk into a store in a hurry, really needing something but are not able to find it. In that situation no salesperson will ever ask if you need help finding something, they will be running for the back room or telling you, "I just went on break.".

Conversely, if you walk into a store knowing right where the thing you need is located, you're guaranteed to have salespeople literally begging to help you find what you need, and they will not leave you alone.
Lemond1985 is offline  
Likes For Lemond1985:
Old 08-23-19, 02:39 PM
  #5  
aspalmat
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Posts: 31
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 9 Times in 4 Posts
I find the opposite. If I stop on long ride to stretch, remove clothing items, or just take a 2 minute break, 90% of the time, someone will stop to ask if I’m alright or need something. Yes, there are lots of angry people out there, but there are also lots of caring, considerate people as well.
aspalmat is offline  
Likes For aspalmat:
Old 08-23-19, 03:48 PM
  #6  
berner
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Bristol, R. I.
Posts: 3,603

Bikes: Specialized Secteur, old Peugeot

Mentioned: 15 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 356 Post(s)
Liked 78 Times in 61 Posts
There is a theory going around that intelligent life on Earth is becoming extinct.
berner is offline  
Likes For berner:
Old 08-23-19, 04:05 PM
  #7  
indyfabz
Senior Member
 
indyfabz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 23,869
Mentioned: 179 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9469 Post(s)
Liked 1,002 Times in 622 Posts
He tried to park on the sidewalk? Must be a rough neighborhood.
indyfabz is offline  
Old 08-23-19, 04:53 PM
  #8  
Robert A
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 514

Bikes: 2019 CAAD12, 2015 Specialized Sirrus Comp

Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 365 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 15 Times in 12 Posts
Originally Posted by indyfabz View Post
He tried to park on the sidewalk? Must be a rough neighborhood.
Or another country. In some places, cars are expected to put two wheels on the sidewalk.
Robert A is offline  
Old 08-23-19, 05:07 PM
  #9  
canklecat
Me duelen las nalgas
 
canklecat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Texas
Posts: 9,770

Bikes: Centurion Ironman, Trek 5900, Univega Via Carisma, Globe Carmel

Mentioned: 176 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3011 Post(s)
Liked 357 Times in 264 Posts
Perceptions of civility are highly subjective and often due to differences in regions and cultures. Or how we feel about the world on any given day. Even now the perceptions of aggression, aggravation and hostility from some world leaders doesn't necessarily filter down to everyone. In many cases it seems to have the opposite effect, reminding most normal folks to behave better than our leaders.

The meanest, most dangerous and racist place I've ever lived was a suburb just north of NYC in the late 1960s-early '70s. I've lived all over the US and traveled through much of the country, including the deep south in the 1960s. Nothing compared with the hostility of that one NY suburb. Every niche group -- divided by country of origin, race, religion, etc. -- despised everyone else and went out of their way to show it. And by all accounts in the news over the years it got worse for quite awhile. That myth about the melting pot didn't extend far beyond the immediate confines of NYC, which as I recall was actually pretty sociable in the '60s and '70s. I don't recall any problems as a kid wandering around the city, or with friends my age.

Subjectively, I tend to notice the handful of drivers who are careless, negligent, rude or reckless, even though that's probably less than 1 per cent of the drivers I encounter. It's safe to say the drivers who make an extra effort to be courteous far outnumber the bad drivers. Most are simply neutral and don't draw attention to themselves, so it's easy to overlook people who are behaving... like normal, civilized human beings.

Folks who ride bikes are just a subset of the same personality types. There's maybe 1 per cent who are overtly rude or reckless and treat the crowded MUP like their personal racetrack. There's maybe 10% who might stop and offer assistance. The rest just behave like normal civilized folks. They don't cause problems and don't get involved unless they see an obvious problem.

Someone working on a bike by the roadside doesn't translate to obvious problem, since mosts of us are self sufficient. I don't stop to offer help to cyclists I don't know unless I make a quick determination that they might need help. And a few times I have helped folks fix minor problems. Those are using riding hybrids or mountain bikes. Most roadies tend to be very self sufficient. I don't think I've ever encountered a cyclist on a road bike who actually needed any help, even when I asked. If it's a friend or acquaintance I'll stop and keep 'em company for a few minutes, unless they seem to not want any company. Just play it by ear.
canklecat is online now  
Likes For canklecat:
Old 08-23-19, 07:51 PM
  #10  
Adonis72
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: WI
Posts: 105

Bikes: Trek Emonda SL6 , Trek Domane SL5 Disc, Giant Fathom 1

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times in 2 Posts
If you don't mind saying, where did this occur? City, state?
Adonis72 is offline  
Likes For Adonis72:
Old 08-23-19, 08:48 PM
  #11  
MSchott
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Farmington Hills, MI
Posts: 331

Bikes: 2017 Specialized Roubaix Sport SL4

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 76 Post(s)
Liked 28 Times in 20 Posts
Iíve seen both sides. I broke a chain a few miles from home and a man stopped and was willing to drive me home which would have made him
late for an appointment.

Another time after a crash a woman who witnessed it rushed out of her home to check on me and brought me some products to clean my wounds.

On the other side, after another crash on a two lane, no one stopped to check on me. Many cars went by, ignoring the bloody road rash.
MSchott is offline  
Old 08-23-19, 10:58 PM
  #12  
canklecat
Me duelen las nalgas
 
canklecat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Texas
Posts: 9,770

Bikes: Centurion Ironman, Trek 5900, Univega Via Carisma, Globe Carmel

Mentioned: 176 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3011 Post(s)
Liked 357 Times in 264 Posts
Reminds me, when I resumed cycling in 2015 after a 30+ year hiatus, it took me weeks to get strong enough to ride 3 miles without a rest break. Yup, I was in terrible shape. For the first few weeks I had to stop every 400 yards to huff on my asthma inhaler and catch my breath.

So, naturally, the first time I ventured 3 miles from home and didn't take a pump, I got a flat from a goathead grass burr. Happened in a borderline rural/semi-suburban area. I asked a fellow working in his yard if he had an air pump. Instead he gave me a lift home in his pickup.

For a couple of years when I rode by there I'd stop to chat or wave while passing. Haven't seen the fellow recently. Good guy, though. And he's not the only one. Most folks are pretty decent if we keep things in perspective.
canklecat is online now  
Likes For canklecat:
Old 08-24-19, 01:41 AM
  #13  
MyTi
6-4 Titanium
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Posts: 326
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 92 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 31 Times in 28 Posts
Guy offered to give me a ride in his car after I got a flat and realized my spare tubes presto valve was too short. But ya have come across many a holes on the road. Most drivers see us as a nuisance unfortunately...
MyTi is offline  
Old 08-24-19, 04:24 AM
  #14  
nomadmax 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: SW Ohio
Posts: 1,091
Mentioned: 78 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 465 Post(s)
Liked 345 Times in 191 Posts
I can't speak for the civility end of it because of what I did for a living, I.E. the people I dealt with never had any so my view is undoubtedly skewed. However, I have finally come into "my" time inasmuch that I'm not among the sharpest tools in the shed intellectually. However, I've been able to mask it quite well because common sense is the new super power
nomadmax is offline  
Old 08-24-19, 07:24 AM
  #15  
jbchybridrider 
Senior Member
 
jbchybridrider's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: adelaide, australia
Posts: 2,670
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 175 Post(s)
Liked 102 Times in 52 Posts
Originally Posted by TimothyH View Post
I find it difficult to believe that someone intentionally tried to run you over.


If a motorist wanted you dead then you would not be here to post about the incident.



-Tim-

There use to be cyclist hate FB groups in Australia and the comments people made were sickening, cyclists should be murdered sort of thing as a sport. But haven't seen one for awhile so may have been shut down now. There is a strong culture of cyclist vs motorist though and I occasionally get people ignore the 1 metre distance passing rule here almost clipping my bars at high speed "very deliberately" sometimes just abuse.

Occasionally there are hit and run incidents killing the cyclist and the police hunting them down finding they have a history as cycling haters. When I see them on the TV nightly news in police custody I wounder what there thinking now, was it all worth it.
jbchybridrider is offline  
Old 08-24-19, 07:42 AM
  #16  
Digger Goreman
Senior Member
 
Digger Goreman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Decatur, GA (Metro Atlanta, East)
Posts: 250

Bikes: 1995 Trek 800 Sport, aka, "Frankentrek"

Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 78 Post(s)
Liked 50 Times in 36 Posts
The elite, social paradigmn (sp?) is to keep one separated and fearful. The little green dude (in a taoist moment) spoke of fear leading to anger and violence... the mind killer....

Whether we intend to, or not, we balk and debunk the american, instantly gratified, gas fueled, consumer society.
Digger Goreman is offline  
Likes For Digger Goreman:
Old 08-24-19, 08:15 AM
  #17  
mstateglfr 
Sunshine
 
mstateglfr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Des Moines, IA
Posts: 9,094

Bikes: '18 class built steel roadbike, '19 Fairlight Secan, '87 Schwinn Prelude, Black Mountain Cycles Monstercross V4, '89 Novara Trionfo, '18 Diamondback Syncr

Mentioned: 84 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3393 Post(s)
Liked 410 Times in 282 Posts
The driver tried to run you over when you were on the sidewalk?

That's awful.
mstateglfr is offline  
Old 08-24-19, 09:54 AM
  #18  
ev780
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Posts: 60
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11 Post(s)
Liked 15 Times in 9 Posts
So......You are obviously fixing a tire and probably in a bad mood. (flat tires do that) Everybody can plainly see that and leave you alone to do your business. Which at the end of your post you specifically ask for anyway. So what's the problem? You want them to ask you a stupid question? "Flat tire, huh?" "Nope, the air got stale in my tires and it needed changing! Here's your sign!"

Next, you didn't paint a good picture of getting run over but it sounds like you were sitting on a curb doing your work. What is a motorist supposed to do? Stop in traffic, get out of their car and politely ask you to move your feet? You can plainly see them too so get out of the way. Parking sucks in most towns anyway and it doesn't help when some dude has his bike scattered all over the place.

If you are looking for incivility, no doubt you will find it. I have had many roadside emergencies on the motorcycle and on the bike and I always get offers of help.
ev780 is offline  
Old 08-24-19, 12:52 PM
  #19  
nycphotography
NYC
 
nycphotography's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 3,622
Mentioned: 18 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1085 Post(s)
Liked 8 Times in 7 Posts
Originally Posted by datlas View Post
Everyone is angry these days. Maybe we can blame the politicians in DC for dividing the country. Sad!
(Facebook * Twitter) ^ bell curve = no hope for humanity

sad but true
nycphotography is offline  
Likes For nycphotography:
Old 08-24-19, 05:22 PM
  #20  
chainwhip
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Posts: 378
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 132 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 37 Times in 30 Posts
all or nothing thinking.
always.
never.
chainwhip is offline  
Old 08-24-19, 07:51 PM
  #21  
Worknomore
Senior Member
 
Worknomore's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: SE Michigan
Posts: 451

Bikes: Serotta CRL, Litespeed Blue Ridge, Bacchetta Ti Aero, Cannondale delta V, 67 Schwinn Sting Ray stick shift.

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 23 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 3 Times in 2 Posts
Its called karma
Worknomore is offline  
Old 08-24-19, 08:37 PM
  #22  
Princess_Allez
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2019
Posts: 155
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 74 Post(s)
Liked 19 Times in 12 Posts
Sounds about right. People these days...
Princess_Allez is offline  
Old 08-25-19, 07:56 AM
  #23  
Chi_Z
Senior Member
 
Chi_Z's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 365

Bikes: Niner RLT 9 RDO

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 186 Post(s)
Liked 26 Times in 20 Posts
next time pick a better place to fix your flat
Chi_Z is offline  
Old 08-25-19, 11:06 AM
  #24  
JohnDThompson 
Old fart
 
JohnDThompson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Appleton WI
Posts: 20,700

Bikes: Several, mostly not name brands.

Mentioned: 122 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1833 Post(s)
Liked 162 Times in 118 Posts
The last time I had to fix a flat by the side of the road, a Spanish-speaking family stopped to offer me a ride. I declined, since I had already replaced the tube and only had to inflate it.
JohnDThompson is online now  
Old 08-25-19, 11:29 AM
  #25  
Digger Goreman
Senior Member
 
Digger Goreman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Decatur, GA (Metro Atlanta, East)
Posts: 250

Bikes: 1995 Trek 800 Sport, aka, "Frankentrek"

Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 78 Post(s)
Liked 50 Times in 36 Posts
Originally Posted by Worknomore View Post
Its called karma
In this case... Car-ma, maybe...?
Digger Goreman is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright © 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.