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Chinese/Taiwanese carbon frame DIY builders #2

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Road Cycling “It is by riding a bicycle that you learn the contours of a country best, since you have to sweat up the hills and coast down them. Thus you remember them as they actually are, while in a motor car only a high hill impresses you, and you have no such accurate remembrance of country you have driven through as you gain by riding a bicycle.” -- Ernest Hemingway

Chinese/Taiwanese carbon frame DIY builders #2

Old 07-14-16, 08:01 AM
  #26  
vasuvius
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looks just like mine except for the orange bar tape. I even have similar looking H+ Son hoops.
Congrats!


Originally Posted by BigPoser View Post
Here is a progress shot of my Workswell R-066. Just waiting for the BB to arrive and it'll be done the same day. Hopefully it will come today. So far I have been very impressed with the quality of the frame. It was packaged well and there was no damage at all. No imperfections that I can see on the frame and when looking inside the various tubes, the carbon looks to be on par with my Focus Cayo.

The only minor gripe was that they seemed to have but a "bulkhead" at the back of the BB shell and made running the rear mech cable challenging. I had to drill a small hole in order to eliminate the unnecessary bends that would have been there. In speaking with a couple other 066 owners, neither had this bulkhead. My frame also had come with additional Di2 frame plugs in the event that I ever go Di2. Not sure it what is the reasoning behind the mysterious bulkhead.

Other than that it's been great. Running the cables has been mush easier than my Focus was. Can't wait to ride it.

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Old 07-14-16, 08:11 AM
  #27  
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Originally Posted by 2lo8 View Post
You can install it, hope it works, and if it never creaks, only remove it when the bearings get gritty. If it creaks, then you can pop it out and install it again with the loctite.
So I decided to use a small amount of Loctite 609. As I pressed the drive side cup in I stopped at about .125" of space left. I dripped a small amount of Loctite on the cup then pressed all the way in. On the non drive side I put some grease on the cup threads and screwed it in till there was .125" of space left. Did the same thing as the drive side then finished turning the cup in till it was tight.
The drive side hole in the frame wasn't as tight as the non-drive side so I felt like using the Loctite was necessary.

Sure it may have voided the warranty but I don't think that will ever be an issue. After looking over the aluminium cups they look bullet proof. This particular bottom bracket, BBRIGHT-OUT-1, doesn't have the rubber gasket like some of their other BB shells. The only thing I can see happening to this bottom bracket is the bearings going out some day and the bearings aren't warranted. They are a simple replacement.

The Ultegra crank slid right in and works perfectly. So I was able to install the chain and get the derailleurs fine tuned. It's a real bike now!
I'm going to take it for a spin this afternoon if the weather cooperates.
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Old 07-14-16, 08:32 AM
  #28  
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Originally Posted by aubiecat View Post
So I decided to use a small amount of Loctite 609. As I pressed the drive side cup in I stopped at about .125" of space left. I dripped a small amount of Loctite on the cup then pressed all the way in. On the non drive side I put some grease on the cup threads and screwed it in till there was .125" of space left. Did the same thing as the drive side then finished turning the cup in till it was tight.
The drive side hole in the frame wasn't as tight as the non-drive side so I felt like using the Loctite was necessary.

Sure it may have voided the warranty but I don't think that will ever be an issue. After looking over the aluminium cups they look bullet proof. This particular bottom bracket, BBRIGHT-OUT-1, doesn't have the rubber gasket like some of their other BB shells. The only thing I can see happening to this bottom bracket is the bearings going out some day and the bearings aren't warranted. They are a simple replacement.

The Ultegra crank slid right in and works perfectly. So I was able to install the chain and get the derailleurs fine tuned. It's a real bike now!
I'm going to take it for a spin this afternoon if the weather cooperates.
I hope that works for you. But Loctite 609 should always be used with its respective primers, 7649 or 7471 when the surfaces being joined are not reactive. Also a thick layer of Loctite is the recommended way it should be applied over the entire contact surface. The idea is to fill in all gaps with Loctite. The excess can be easily cleaned up with isopropyl alcohol from the pharmacy. Your sparse use of it may do the job. No one really knows.

The warranty issue is simply unimportant. One reason is the low cost of the parts you are working with and another is the low probability of anything going wrong except with the unwarranted bearings. Most folks who have had creaking with press-fit bottom brackets would (I believe) gladly sacrifice $100 for a guaranteed fix, which is what the properly used Loctite primer/609 system is. Fortunately it should never come to that. The Loctite won't harm your adapter and can be easily removed from it if you ever needed to submit the part for warranty remediation.

Did you weight the OEM adapter against the one you used. It would be interesting to know the actual weight difference.
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Old 07-14-16, 09:07 AM
  #29  
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No I didn't weight the OEM adapter but I'll try to do that this evening.
BTW I did use the 7649 primer, I just didn't mention it in the post. Now that I have installed a press fit BB I'll know what to expect in the future. If it starts to creak I'll pull the cups out and use a liberal amount of Loctite before reinstalling.
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Old 07-14-16, 11:59 AM
  #30  
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Originally Posted by aubiecat View Post
So I decided to use a small amount of Loctite 609. As I pressed the drive side cup in I stopped at about .125" of space left. I dripped etc.
Thanks for the detail. I am waiting on an 066 which will also have BBRight and an Ultegra crankset, so this is really useful.
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Old 07-14-16, 04:16 PM
  #31  
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Originally Posted by Maelochs View Post
Thanks for the detail. I am waiting on an 066 which will also have BBRight and an Ultegra crankset, so this is really useful.
You see this is EXACTLY what I was looking for when I started this thread. Detailed info regarding what some may consider to be assumed but to us it is invaluable. I'm curious to know why you all are going with the Wheelsmfg BBRight-out-1. Is it that is is known to work well with the Ultegra cranks? (which I will also be using)

To the Pen Man, thank you for the push to have me move forward and order the frame. I still need a fitting (or a recommendation from one of you fine gentleman)

I'm also looking from anyone of you a recommended press fit tool or kit to use. The only bb tool I have is a Lezyne External Bottom Bracket And Cassette Lockring Tool.

Did I mention you guys are AWESOME?!

Last edited by clubber; 07-14-16 at 04:34 PM. Reason: Givin the boys their props
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Old 07-14-16, 04:29 PM
  #32  
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I bought the Wheels kit based on recommendations form people here and in the Weightweenies thread ad being the lightest solid set of adapters/shims for Ultegra to BBRight. I also spent $35 on the Wheels Mfg press-fit press, because I knew I could make my own ,... but I also knew I could make a mess. I definitely cannot tolerate creaking and squeaking, and particularly not from the bottom bracket. I might not ever be able to afford another bike, but if I can it will probably be an 085 with 105, so I can use the press again.
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Old 07-14-16, 04:29 PM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by clubber View Post
You see this is EXACTLY what I was looking for when I started this thread. Detailed info regarding what some may consider to be assumed but to us it is invaluable. I'm curious to know why you all are going with the Wheelsmfg BBRight-out-1. Is it that is is known to work well with the Ultegra cranks? (which I will also be using)

To the Pen Man, thank you for the push to have me move forward and order the frame. I still need a fitting (or a recommendation from one of you fine gentleman)

I'm also looking from anyone of you a recommended press fit tool or kit to use. The only bb tool I have is a Lezyne External Bottom Bracket And Cassette Lockring Tool.
Go to Home Depot or Lowes and get a 10-12" threaded rod (mine was 5/8"), a couple of nuts and some washers. Presto, you have a press for about $5. May not be as nice, but it works good.
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Old 07-14-16, 05:11 PM
  #34  
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Originally Posted by BigPoser View Post
Go to Home Depot or Lowes and get a 10-12" threaded rod (mine was 5/8"), a couple of nuts and some washers. Presto, you have a press for about $5. May not be as nice, but it works good.
What you say is right, but the press bushings that fit the ID of the bearings are an invaluable part of the press tool kit. And sometimes you can get the press device as well as the dies for the same price as the dies alone. See ebay and search for "bottom bracket press". Many to choose from.
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Old 07-14-16, 05:34 PM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by Maelochs View Post
I bought the Wheels kit based on recommendations form people here and in the Weightweenies thread ad being the lightest solid set of adapters/shims for Ultegra to BBRight. I also spent $35 on the Wheels Mfg press-fit press, because I knew I could make my own ,... but I also knew I could make a mess. I definitely cannot tolerate creaking and squeaking, and particularly not from the bottom bracket. I might not ever be able to afford another bike, but if I can it will probably be an 085 with 105, so I can use the press again.
Cool...good to know being that I too am gonna be using a primarily Ultegra group (I still haven't seriously delved into the research I typically do when deciding on components) so I'm not dead set on standard or short cage RD, Ultegra brakes or which Ultegra crank I'll go with.

Any opinions on the different Ultegra components?

Ill look for the Wheels Mfg press-fit press on their site. I'm a serious tool junkie so $35 is right in my wheel-house

I too am driven NUTZ by any kind of rubbing or creaking or squeaking (thats what happened with the BB on my cheapo mtb that I sent to the grave after putting over 2000 miles on it) I literally rode it into the ground. tossed it off and embankment and walked home. That was a FINE day. Being FORCED into buying a new bike.

The primary reason I got into road biking and buying my current ride off CL. I was also looking at the 085 frame months ago as an option. Possibly a build for next spring.
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Old 07-14-16, 05:36 PM
  #36  
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Originally Posted by rpenmanparker View Post
What you say is right, but the press bushings that fit the ID of the bearings are an invaluable part of the press tool kit. And sometimes you can get the press device as well as the dies for the same price as the dies alone. See ebay and search for "bottom bracket press". Many to choose from.
OK...off to Fleabay to look for one. thanks

What is your opinion of this one http://www.ebay.com/itm/Bike-Headset...AAOSwUdlWeAGv? Or perhaps there is a specific one you could recommend? Maybe one with a hand-crank?

Last edited by clubber; 07-14-16 at 05:44 PM.
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Old 07-14-16, 05:41 PM
  #37  
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The only reason to buy the medium cage GS is if you want to run 11-32, at which point I'd rather run a triple. SS works with every other cassette option. GS is optimized to only work with 11-28 and 11-32, although I'm sure it will still shift other cassettes.
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Old 07-14-16, 05:46 PM
  #38  
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Originally Posted by 2lo8 View Post
The only reason to buy the medium cage GS is if you want to run 11-32, at which point I'd rather run a triple. SS works with every other cassette option. GS is optimized to only work with 11-28 and 11-32, although I'm sure it will still shift other cassettes.
Not sure what you mean by SS, GS. As I mentioned I have not really gotten into researching it yet. I do appreciate your input though
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Old 07-14-16, 05:48 PM
  #39  
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GS is the medium cage version of the rear derailer. SS is the short cage version of the rear derailer.

GS is heavier, usually costs more, and will probably shift worse on any cassette smaller than 11-28. The only, singular advantage it has is the ability to run 11-32.
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Old 07-14-16, 07:13 PM
  #40  
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Okay for those of you contemplating using a homemade press, threaded rod and nuts, I'd think twice. If this is your first time pressing a BB into a frame I suggest you get the Wheels Mfg. press or one equal to it from ebay. I tried the homemade route myself and I destroyed the OEM (Workswell) BB that came with the frame. I even CNC'd custom drifts for the bearings and still ruined them.



You may not have the same result as I did with a homemade press but you'll never regret getting the right tool for the right job.

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Old 07-14-16, 07:16 PM
  #41  
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How did you ruin the bearings? Applying pressure to the inner race?
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Old 07-14-16, 07:35 PM
  #42  
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Ride report:
I went out on a short ride today to test ride the new bike and everything was great except the bottom bracket. I had creaking from the start. I know for a fact it wasn't any other component of the bike because every nut and bolt was tightened to spec and I just repacked the pedals. Apparently using a little bit or Loctite isn't the answer. As rpenmanparker suggested before, use a liberal amount of Loctite along with the specified primer, if you are going to go that route.
I will be pulling the cups back out to reinstall them properly, when I have time. As for now I'm going to have to put the bike on the back burner for a week or so because I am backed up at work and I am going to California next week.
I have to say, besides the creaking from the bottom bracket I was very happy with everything else. I can't give a realistic report of the ride because I was so pumped and I forgot to inflate the tires to the correct amount. My ride was cut short because we are getting some major afternoon lightning/thunder boomers right now.
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Old 07-14-16, 07:50 PM
  #43  
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Originally Posted by 2lo8 View Post
How did you ruin the bearings? Applying pressure to the inner race?
Honestly, I don't know what was happening. I put even pressure on the bearings from the start and as I started to apply torque the BB cup would get crooked. I tried it more than once and I went very slow each time. It still went wrong each time. The last time it went in wrong I wrecked the bearings getting the BB back out.
The thing that gets me is the Wheels Mfg. BB cup slid in so easy. The drive side was easy but the non-drive side was tight as ****.
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Old 07-14-16, 08:06 PM
  #44  
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Some of the Chinese BBs don't have a very good taper so they don't do a very good job at self centering and staying flat at the start. If you get the job started with a mallet just tapping it in lightly and somewhat straight, but getting the entire circumference started, it can make the job easier.
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Old 07-14-16, 09:48 PM
  #45  
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Originally Posted by aubiecat View Post
Honestly, I don't know what was happening. I put even pressure on the bearings from the start and as I started to apply torque the BB cup would get crooked. I tried it more than once and I went very slow each time. It still went wrong each time. The last time it went in wrong I wrecked the bearings getting the BB back out.
The thing that gets me is the Wheels Mfg. BB cup slid in so easy. The drive side was easy but the non-drive side was tight as ****.
Well aside from the problems with the BB you have to feel good about (nearly) finishing your build.

I would be curious to know (if you have a digital caliper) the measurements of both the inside diameter of the BB shell outside diameter of the BB cup. If the non-drive side is particularly tight than it seems to me that one or the other has to be off or out of round.

The fact that you have to leave and come back to it in week or however long you'll be gone will give you a fresh perspective and hopefully it will be something you simply overlooked.
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Old 07-15-16, 07:51 AM
  #46  
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Originally Posted by clubber View Post
Well aside from the problems with the BB you have to feel good about (nearly) finishing your build.

I would be curious to know (if you have a digital caliper) the measurements of both the inside diameter of the BB shell outside diameter of the BB cup. If the non-drive side is particularly tight than it seems to me that one or the other has to be off or out of round.

The fact that you have to leave and come back to it in week or however long you'll be gone will give you a fresh perspective and hopefully it will be something you simply overlooked.
Yes, even with the creaking noise it was great to finally get out on the road to give it a test ride.

I have a set of digital calipers so I'll give it a look when I pull the Wheels Mfg BB out. I'll also measure the OEM one to see if it's consistent. I don't doubt that the hole in the frame may be out of round. That's good reason alone to use a lot of Loctite during installation. I wonder if they ream the BB hole out by hand or in a jig?

I do need a fresh perspective. There is a lot going on here. We are trying to get a big job out at work and I am putting in extra work to make sure I'm covered while I'm out of town next week. Up until yesterday my living room looked like a junk yard with bike parts, tools and packaging all over the place.

I think a nice long bike ride along the Pacific coast might be just what I need.
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Old 07-15-16, 08:39 AM
  #47  
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Originally Posted by aubiecat View Post
Honestly, I don't know what was happening. I put even pressure on the bearings from the start and as I started to apply torque the BB cup would get crooked. I tried it more than once and I went very slow each time. It still went wrong each time. The last time it went in wrong I wrecked the bearings getting the BB back out.
The thing that gets me is the Wheels Mfg. BB cup slid in so easy. The drive side was easy but the non-drive side was tight as ****.
Correct me if I am wrong, but it sounds like your first try with the negative result differed by two variables from the successful installation that followed. Different tool AND different BB adapter. Considering how similar the purchased tool is to the homemade one, I would blame the failure on the Workswell BB adapter, not the homemade tool. Despite the fancier look of the purchased one, it is basically the same as the homemade one, just a threaded rod, some nuts and the drifts. How could the problem have been the fault of the tool if the drifts were right?
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Old 07-15-16, 10:08 AM
  #48  
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Originally Posted by rpenmanparker View Post
What you say is right, but the press bushings that fit the ID of the bearings are an invaluable part of the press tool kit. And sometimes you can get the press device as well as the dies for the same price as the dies alone. See ebay and search for "bottom bracket press". Many to choose from.
You are also correct. My bottom bracket came with the needed dies for my specific part. Others may not.
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Old 07-15-16, 02:20 PM
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Originally Posted by rpenmanparker View Post
Correct me if I am wrong, but it sounds like your first try with the negative result differed by two variables from the successful installation that followed. Different tool AND different BB adapter. Considering how similar the purchased tool is to the homemade one, I would blame the failure on the Workswell BB adapter, not the homemade tool. Despite the fancier look of the purchased one, it is basically the same as the homemade one, just a threaded rod, some nuts and the drifts. How could the problem have been the fault of the tool if the drifts were right?
Fair enough.

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Old 07-16-16, 04:53 PM
  #50  
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I weighed the OEM bottom bracket, it came out to 128 grams. (The photo shows 127 but I left the seal off which weights one gram)
The Wheels Mfg. bottom bracket weighs 164 grams.
A weight penalty of 36.

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