Duragrouch

Wait, you're Abe Froman? THE Abe Froman?

(I believe that there is a cinematic reference for every situation in life.)

Carbonfiberboy 

Huh. That's what I thought the first time I tried them, but everyone here told me I was full of it and had no idea about how tires should feel. My front feels stiffer at 80 lbs. than my Vredesteins felt at 100.

Which Pirellis? I tried the P Zero and found it a flat magnet. The stupid ridges on the tread obviously have cracks between them and those cracks pick up flints like crazy. Otherwise they rode really nicely but they sit in my tire box now.

Abe_Froman

Hah, forget a group ride. I have to work pretty hard not to tackle kids on fixies riding by and put air in their tires for them.

Abe_Froman

Indeed I am. May I find you a table at Chez Quis?

DrIsotope

Yesterday, a lady was riding her beach cruiser in front of the house while I was out working on the yard. The back tire was so low, I wanted to direct her into the driveway so I could put some air into that poor thing.

Seattle Forrest

I'm the champ!

Back when I used to get flats - which is another way of saying when I used tubes - they seemed to mostly happen in the rain. It's harder to see crap in the road, and the water can spread it out and make it unavoidable. Fixing a flat when it's 40F and raining shouldn't ruin your whole day, but it sucks for a few minutes. Turns out the ideal solution is cross training, aka do something else on miserable days.

Abe_Froman

I have this theory that water makes all the little glass shards in the road stick to your tires, and get multiple thwaks against the rubber, rather than one shot at a puncture when it's dry and the rubber mashes it once and then its gone.

MoAlpha

Thwack reduction was the rationale for those tire scraper thingies no one has used for 30 years. I may be mistaken, but I thought that theory had been rejected.

WhyFi

I've heard, and seen at least one demonstration, that water makes it easier to cut/puncture rubber, so it's not just that you can't see the debris and that it more easily sticks for multiple tire revolutions, but possibly all of the above.

Abe_Froman

I'm not sure how it could NOT be true. I mean just look at the difference on the back of your seat post post wet ride vs post dry ride. Post dry ride it's clean. Post wet ride it's covered in little bits of everything. Unless I suppose glass and stones stick to rubber equally in dry and wet conditions, but stick to seatposts only in the wet, though that sounds unlikely to me..

Duragrouch

My 20" wheel folder has a "compact" derailleur mounted forward of the axle that makes it a *mutha* to pull off the back wheel. I have to shift to the small cog AND remove the axle nuts to get it off, and even then its a bear. Instead, when possible, I leave the wheel on, locate the general area of the leak, dismount the tire on the non-drive side, snake out the tube, find the hole, slap on a sticky patch (great invention), check the tire inside and out for anything pokey, reassemble and go.

But I haven't had to do that since my last tube change; I took the old tubes, cut off the valve stems, flattened the tubes, and put them between the new tube and the tire tread. Now I have inside 3 thicknesses of rubber instead of one, and 2 of them are thicker because they are not stretched due to inflation. And, for my 1.75" tires, I now use tubes rated for 1.75-2.25" instead of 1.5-1.75", for less stretch. Haven't had a flat since. It rains a lot here, which makes me especially hate flats. Heavier. Yeah, that just gives me more workout. My folder with racks and panniers all loaded up is north of 50 lbs, probably 60. I need to walk it up hills due to the single 52 crank, I'm lining up an order now to put a triple on the front.

mgopack42 

[QUOTE=Abe_Froman;20923585] Also if I lived somewhere these mythical tire attacking goat thingies[/QUOTE

Here is a picture of goat heads:

Nature's own caltrops!

Seattle Forrest

This makes sense. I always felt like there had to be more to it because I've run over stuff I shouldn't have on dry days and gotten away with it.

Duragrouch

How much for the little girl? How much for the women? I want to buy your women. The little girl, your daughters... sell them to me. Sell me your children! (Oh, wait, wrong restaurant in the greater Chicago area.)

Abe_Froman

Do people really come to the shop to have flat tires fixed??

Christ I should open up a shop. I'll make millions.

Psimet2001 

Yeah. Actually our most common service but it takes a metric ton of flat changes to pay 1 month’s electrical bill.

When I moved into the shop I found the old owner’s old rates in a binder. It had standard multipliers for everything. Big old worksheet. Put your shop rate in and calculate everything.

Front flat, rear flat. If on the bike. Off the bike. Coaster brake, quick release. Bolt on axle, etc.

they were all within like $0.60 of each other as well and were coming out to like $3-$4.

“F-it. $10 to change a flat. $5 for every tube in the place except super long valve road tubes which will be $9”

after 5 years I finally had to raise my tube prices as I was lower than Walmart and tubes keep getting more expensive on the wholesale side.

This all drives home the point that the overwhelming vast majority of riders aren’t the people that come here. They don’t touch their bikes and don’t want to change flats.

Abe_Froman

I guess I shouldt be surprised. I have a coworker whom I talked into buying a bike. His big impediment to riding it is that the tires now dont have air. NOT a flat/leak...he just hasnt put air in lol

Seattle Forrest

Years ago I saw a MTB leaning up against the side of the (apartment) building for a few days, no lock. So I asked around. The chain was worn out (not actually worn, rusted) so it was there for the garbage man or anyone else.

WTF! Does not compute! Throwing a bike away because the chain needs replacing is like buying one of those Peleton bikes you can't ride outside on the road.

It was a $75 Walmart bike, buying another one in a new color made as much sense as replacing the chain.

That's most people on bikes. They don't even know what they're missing out on.

RShantz

Serious question - how do the majority physically get to you with the flat? I'm assuming they got the flat while riding. So is their plan if they get a flat on the road, to have someone come pick them up?

Psimet2001 

I have a feeling this falls into the box that we think all riders go on rides like us. Most are bog box bikes. 26", 20, 24, kind of stuff. The grown adults that actually ride a lot just stop the ride and get picked up.

People don't get a lot of actual flats here. They destroy it because they ride the tire until it's gone and then all of a sudden get a flat and bring it in. Or they get pinch flats from riding with never putting air into the tires.

I seldom get someone that would be an enthusiast that can't change a tire. it happens sometimes because some people just possess no ability to change tires when it's on a tubeless rim.

I don't get any of it because I learned how to change tires when I was 10 or so and have always done it for myself. I don't honestly know what they do but they walk in the front door all the time. We are located on one of the busiest trail systems in the greater Chicagoland area though. Like the trail is on my property. This is the kind of trail where the whole family comes out for a bike ride, puts in like 4 or 5 miles then gets ice cream at the dairy queen next door. It's a different crowd.

Then when they come in it will be a small collection of uber roadies hanging around mid ride and drinking coffee. They go quiet when the regular people come in. it gets awkward. I fix the flat. They leave. Roadies talk again. That's if I am lucky. If I am not lucky then someone who comes in starts the whole:
"So bikes AND coffee...that's a unique concept!"
"Not really there are a lot of shops that do it. about 5-6 in Chicago alone."
"This is the first time I have ever seen that. Makes sense though." ***Wheel is off bike and I am pulling the tube***
"Would you like a coffee?"
"Oh, no thanks we're going to go get ice cream. I was just riding along and then it was flat. I must have run over something. So how long have you been here."
"The shop has been here for 30 years. I bought it out about 5 years ago." *******Ascertaining the cause of the flat ***
"So you just do service? You don't sell bikes?"
"We sell bikes."
"Oh, I didn't see any-"
"We sell custom built bikes to order serving mainly the road and cyclocross markets. Anything from the $3k to $10k kind of range. We don't stock bikes." ***** Walking to shelf to pull a new tube***
"Oh...I'm not a racer."
"I know, but you could be."
"Do you guys go to a lot of races?"
"I run the third largest team in Illinois and am currently the President of the Illinois Cycling Association which oversees and permits all races in the state of Illinois on behalf of USA Cycling - the olympic governing body for cycling in the united states. If there is a race, I am at it."
"So you have someone else run the shop when you're at races?"
"No - just closed."
"What's all back there?" ***** Tube is in and tire is back on and getting pumped up.
"That's the wheel factory and training center."
"HWAAAAA? You make tires?"
"no. we make wheels." ********** Checking to make sure the bead is seated and putting the wheel back on the bike********
"What kind of wheels?"
"Aluminum and carbon wheels predominantly for the road and cyclocross market."
"I've never heard of cyclocross. What is that-" ***** everyone in the room points to the TV over the workshop that plays cyclocross non-stop.**** "That looks hard. Does anyone do that around here?"
"We have one of the largest cyclocross scenes in the country. Our weekly races see anywhere from 500-1000 racers every single weekend from September through December. We actually just landed the national championships for 2020 as well. I host 1 race in the Chicago cross Cup and will be hosting our Sate Championships this year as well. " **** Ringing the customer up. $10 labor, $6 tube
"Oh...uh....Honey do you have my wallet?"

I am so used to it I do it without thinking but i forget how daunting it can be until someone else fills in for me. "I was just trying to get the work done and concentrate and they keep asking me questions. I was trying to be nice but I wanted to punch them."

DOS

Haven't used the 5000s, but I also have found the 4000s very delicate.

MoAlpha

Maybe you need to talk him into buying a pump.

One of the contract guards at the perimeter gate at work, who sees me ride in every day, mentioned she had a bike but couldn't ride it because Presta. I brought her an adapter and now she says she's riding. Made me feel like a great guy for three min.

DOS

I am running pro ones and have previously used Schwalbe One clinchers (V guard). I have been very pleased with durability. I just blew out a pro one, hitting a rock that cut a huge unsealable gash, but that was the first flat on Pro Ones in 2 and half years. No clue how many miles I had in the destroyed tire but it was nearing end of life anyway.

DrIsotope

I've never had a Schwalbe ONE last even 1,000 miles. As soon as the tread is even lightly worn, a tire-destroying cut seems inevitable. They may work just fine for others, but they are too fragile for the everyday streets of inland SoCal.

Like I've said in other threads, around here it's not uncommon to see $10k carbon aero bikes sitting on Gatorskins. Bad roads, lot of glass, even more thorns. It's not what the ONEs are made for.

DOS

Yeah, thorns are not an issue here in Northern Virginia. The roads aren’t great, and I suppose we have some glass, but nothing too bad. My experience with the Schwalbe durability is in comparison to how quickly I tore through two sets of Conti 4Ks. I have gone through 3 Schwalbe tires in 2 and half years (with life still left in the current front tire) as compared to burning through four contis in less than half that time.