Buellster

Hey you all
I'm attempting do a 4 speed conversion project. I was bothering the very kind users in the "for the love of english 3 speeds" thread.
They have been immensely helpful but I'm running into some issues with parts so I wanted to put up a bat signal and see if I could get the attention of some people who have performed this type of conversion.
I am both unsure of which parts I still need, and where to find them. Any suggestion on how to make a build like this easier or good parts to use (new or old, I dont need it to be period I just want it to work well).

Things I have:
-A bike (I hear this part is important)
-1964 4 speed FW Hub
-Lambert of England cranks with a 52 tooth cog as my front single gear
-a single rolling cable guide
-The axel Nut
-The indicator chain
-A cone spanner adjuster wrench thingy
-The wrong type of cable
-A nice old box
-A nice old manual

Things I know I need:
-The hub to be built into a wheel (Im intending to get an Alex CR18 700c Rim built around the hub)
-Anti rotation washers to mate with frame
-4 speed shifter
-Correct shifting cable
-Top tube cable guide
-2 spacer rings and the circlip that holds the cog
-A cog (that I know how to get, I'm going for 22 tooth)



The bike to be converted. A Charlie Harding Holdsworth Mystuiqe.


What I have. A 1964 4 speed Hub, the roller cable guide, the nut which over the axel and chain pulley, a spanner cone wrench, and for some reason included in the box is also a shimano twist grip barrel end cable (ebay being ebay)

Salubrious

The parts you need are common to three speed AW hubs. I seriously recommend you look into a smaller chainring for the front; either a 44 tooth or 46. With the commonly available sprockets for the hub that will allow you to have some usable gears.

dweenk

^^^^ Unless you have thighs like Sir Chris Hoy, you will need a smaller chainring.

Buellster

someone had mentioned to me that the friction washers may not work with this hub or my bike frame. Is that likley to be true? The frame is an 82 and it was built as eithier a 5 speed or a 3 speed originally.
I used sheldons calcutalor for gear ratio and it looked as though if I use a 22 rear sprocket with the 52 tooth it would even out the ratio so that the top three gears are near equivalent to the normal gear inches.
I may be wrong here though?

The 3 speed in gear inches With the 48 front


The 4 speed with a 52 T front and a few options for rear sprocket. The 22 seemed to match up the best.

Buellster

It should be noted I have normal human thighs haha

rustystrings61 

When I ran a Sturmey-Archer FW, it was a hub marked 10 62 fitted to a 27-in Mavic that replaced the original rusted beyond redemption rim. That one came to me with a 46T chainring that turned an 18T cog, giving me 46/54/69/87-in gears. I typically ran in the 69-in, or 3rd gear, which was the normal gear, and most frequently used the low gears for climbing. I had little use for the 87, but it came in handy on long gentle descents or times when I was drafting off someone else. My memory is that the cable is the same as any other Sturmey-Archer cable, but the indicator rod is different.

I am assuming you're familiar with the late Sheldon Brown's materials (with addenda) on the Harris Cyclery site, right?

Anyway, just for fun, here is a pic of a bike I owned for many years that came to me with what appears to have been a factory-installed FW. It's kind of odd, actually - the Dawes Realmrider was typically a 4, 5, 8 or 10-speed derailleur bike, but this one had no braze-ons for derailleur cables and appears to have left the factory as a flat-bar 4-speed gearhub bike. I swapped in Nitto drop bars and a B17 and some Lyotard pedals with toeclips and found it to be a nimble and comfortable bike. I rode a metric century on it in 2005 and had a blast.

Salubrious

The calculator is correct. Most people with 3-speeds have best success if a 22 is on the rear, rather than a 20, and that's with a 46 in the front. In your case, all the gears will be a bit taller as you can see in the numbers, and that's with a 22. I don't see the point in having the extra weight of the extra chain and overall larger sprockets unless you are really worried about chain life which won't be an issue unless you are really hard on chains and ride really a lot.

As I mentioned on the 3-speed thread (which is a good place to discuss 4-speeds as well) I think you'll want lower gears. But once the wheel is built, it won't be hard to sort that stuff out after the fact, so give it a try. If you show up at the Lake Pepin 3-speed tour (which welcomes 4 speeds) I think you will find the Bay City Hill to be challenging though...

rhm

I too think your 52t chain ring will be too big; but you'll figure it out.

You do not need a "top tube cable guide," but rather a "fulcrum clip," together with a "fulcrum sleeve."

https://jet.com/product/SA-FULCRUM-C...0aAvqvEALw_wcB

Some quibble that "fulcrum" is not the right word, but that doesn't matter; that's the word Sturmey Archer used. You need the 1" size (25.4 mm). There is also a 1 1/8" size (28.6 mm) which would fit on the down tube --not what you want.

Buellster

Beautiful! I love this!
the lack of a braze on derailur is why I originally started considering an internal gear hub for my Harding. It seemed an elegant solution to the problem.
My understanding of the FW set up is that the top three gears are similar to identical to the AW, with the lowest gear being a lower than low option. I am quite happy with the AW gearing. I spend most time in 2 but enjoy using 3 when I get going down a hill or if I'm picking up a lot of speed on a flat. The lowest gear is just a little too high for some of the steeper climbs. I was hoping the FW would remedy that.

I have looked through much of Sheldons info but mostly on the AW specfic stuff. I always appreciate direct links to applicable pages! I dont know if I've seen this specific page before.
It came with an indicator rod already set in the hub. I'm guessing it's the right one if it fits in, but given that the cable I received isn't correct I'm suspicious. If it fits in is it correct? Or is there another way to check?

Buellster

like I mentioned I was just looking for the shortest route from A to B.
Buying a new chainring is more money and more time.
I dont know really what I'm looking at on gearing calculators though so I'll go with the crowd and pay a visit to norther cycles when I get a chance.

fietsbob

FWIW,

New S-A 4 speed is like their 8 speed the direct 1:1 is the low, the other 3 are Overdrive..

Aluminum hub shell ..

Buellster

I definitely prefer the top tube route.
Thanks for the correct nomenclature I was sure I had some part wrong haha

rustystrings61 

My memory is that it was a two-piece indicator rod that one looked on the LEFT side of the hub to adjust, but it's been a long time since I owned that bike. Also, the bike came to me with the larger diameter downtube-routed fulcrum ...

desconhecido 

If 52/22 is too tall, you can use a 24t rear sprocket -- they're available on Amazon, either dished or flat.

BigChief 

I've seen those 24T cogs on amazon. They are 1/8" thick which is what should always be used on SA hubs. Stay away from any 3/32" cogs.