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Crazy if you e

Old 11-04-20, 09:47 PM
  #1  
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What do you think about everything?

In terms of how society is and where as a people we are heading towards. I’m just curious in what y’all think. Nothing personal just in general terms.

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Old 11-04-20, 10:52 PM
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With the addition of another great grandson a year ago, i have to make the best of life, and hang around for another 20 years for him to be able to by me a beer.
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Old 11-05-20, 12:25 AM
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I recently worked for a company that makes HR software, tracking how many hours employees work and how much they are owed. Customers were companies with anywhere from two to 10,000 employees. HR software is infinitely configurable. That was eye opening, both the options and how companies would configure them. Anyone who views their relationship with their employer as anything other than a day by day business transaction is fooling themselves. It's nothing new, but the tools they have at their disposal to minimize pay and maximize work extracted are unprecedented. People largely have no idea what's going on.

I came away from that experience a bit more jaded that I was going in. I'll retire just fine, but the kids are screwed.
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Old 11-05-20, 02:28 AM
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What? You mean we aren't "part of the family?"

Yeah, when the term human "resource" started coming into vogue, and I-9s... it was all pretty obvious.
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Old 11-05-20, 04:43 AM
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Technology should be setting us free. The robots can build more robots, and they can do all the dirty work for us. Drones can deliver anything we want right to us. Nobody should be wanting for anything.

Instead, it looks like we will allow technology to be used by the rich and powerful to enslave us. It can be used to watch us at every moment, to inspire the reactions the powerful wish us to have, and to quickly spot and crush opposition. We should be heading to a time when a lie can not survive beyond the moment it is spoken, as we have the tools at hand to verify or disprove anything in an instant. Instead, these tools are used to spread lies by the powerful, and by the rest of us to confirm our prejudices instead of searching for the truth.

I wish I could see something positive for the future, but honestly I can't. I fear that we don't fully appreciate the importance of things like checks and balances. We are too quick to throw them away to "solve" a temporary problem. The tyrants will never stop, and the rest of us just want to go about our business and live our lives, and don't fully appreciate the tenacity of the tyrant until he is too big to fight. With the technology that is here and around the corner, we can't afford to be fooled again, or we may never go back. 1984 is a real possibility.
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Old 11-05-20, 08:49 AM
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Originally Posted by chewybrian View Post
Technology should be setting us free. The robots can build more robots, and they can do all the dirty work for us. Drones can deliver anything we want right to us. Nobody should be wanting for anything.

Instead, it looks like we will allow technology to be used by the rich and powerful to enslave us. It can be used to watch us at every moment, to inspire the reactions the powerful wish us to have, and to quickly spot and crush opposition. We should be heading to a time when a lie can not survive beyond the moment it is spoken, as we have the tools at hand to verify or disprove anything in an instant. Instead, these tools are used to spread lies by the powerful, and by the rest of us to confirm our prejudices instead of searching for the truth.

I wish I could see something positive for the future, but honestly I can't. I fear that we don't fully appreciate the importance of things like checks and balances. We are too quick to throw them away to "solve" a temporary problem. The tyrants will never stop, and the rest of us just want to go about our business and live our lives, and don't fully appreciate the tenacity of the tyrant until he is too big to fight. With the technology that is here and around the corner, we can't afford to be fooled again, or we may never go back. 1984 is a real possibility.
That isolated shack, off the grid, out in the middle of the forest/swamp/on the little island, is looking better and better all the time. Or maybe a big boat, and go "water world." ¿Hablas español?
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Old 11-05-20, 08:58 AM
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Hell is other people, there's just no way around it. I have heard it said that in Mexico, there are places so remote and isolated (much of the country is 5000 feet in altitude and above) that if you truly wanted to live off the grid, be independent, and have absolutely no one mess with you, it's not a bad country to look at. Plus I believe you can still get your SS checks when living there, and the money will go further.
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Old 11-05-20, 09:00 AM
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Originally Posted by downtube42 View Post
I recently worked for a company that makes HR software, tracking how many hours employees work and how much they are owed. Customers were companies with anywhere from two to 10,000 employees. HR software is infinitely configurable. That was eye opening, both the options and how companies would configure them. Anyone who views their relationship with their employer as anything other than a day by day business transaction is fooling themselves. It's nothing new, but the tools they have at their disposal to minimize pay and maximize work extracted are unprecedented. People largely have no idea what's going on.

I came away from that experience a bit more jaded that I was going in. I'll retire just fine, but the kids are screwed.
So true! You're always a 'contract worker' no matter who you work for or if you're self-employed. . Lucky for me, I experienced this situation at the first two companies I worked for back in the early 1980. One closed down overnight and shipped our jobs back to the Midwest (odd, since a good chunk of the customers were here in hi-tech California), the second company got bought and the purchaser carved it up and also relocated the division I worked for. After those experiences I started investing for myself to ensure I'd have funds to tide me over in jobless situations, and to build up a retirements fund. After 11 jobs and prudent investing over the years I'll be able to retire at 65.
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Old 11-05-20, 12:20 PM
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I've read that as you get older you turn more pessimistic about the future. Not sure why. Maybe it is because you watch the world changing and it becomes more alien to the way you were used to. Anyhow, I'm older and fairly down on the future. I think humanity is running headlong at full speed for a cliff. Perhaps it is time for our civilization to collapse. Sometimes that is the only way for change to happen.
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Old 11-05-20, 01:42 PM
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Originally Posted by bikecrate View Post
I've read that as you get older you turn more pessimistic about the future. Not sure why. Maybe it is because you watch the world changing and it becomes more alien to the way you were used to. Anyhow, I'm older and fairly down on the future. I think humanity is running headlong at full speed for a cliff. Perhaps it is time for our civilization to collapse. Sometimes that is the only way for change to happen.
The usual youthful optimism is because a young person hasn't been shat on, cheated, robbed, sued, screwed over, or has noticed that most other people just want your money.
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Old 11-05-20, 02:06 PM
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Originally Posted by FiftySix View Post
The usual youthful optimism is because a young person hasn't been shat on, cheated, robbed, sued, screwed over, or has noticed that most other people just want your money.
Do you have a spare 5 dollar bill I can have I need a six of cheap Keystone Light.
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Old 11-05-20, 02:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Hondo Gravel View Post
Do you have a spare 5 dollar bill I can have I need a six of cheap Keystone Light.
Don't spend it all in one place.


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Old 11-05-20, 02:49 PM
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Originally Posted by bikecrate View Post
I've read that as you get older you turn more pessimistic about the future. Not sure why. Maybe it is because you watch the world changing and it becomes more alien to the way you were used to. Anyhow, I'm older and fairly down on the future. I think humanity is running headlong at full speed for a cliff. Perhaps it is time for our civilization to collapse. Sometimes that is the only way for change to happen.
I've felt pessimistic of humanities future as a teen back in the 70's mainly due to over population, environmental degradation and war. The writing was always on the wall if you paid any attention and thought about how it would play out. It was the main reason I decided I didn't want to bring any more humans into the world. No regrets on that decision.
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Old 11-05-20, 03:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Hondo Gravel View Post
Do you have a spare 5 dollar bill I can have I need a six of cheap Keystone Light.
I got a 5 for two 10s

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Old 11-05-20, 03:45 PM
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Originally Posted by FiftySix View Post
Don't spend it all in one place.


Thanks for the 100 pesos... was able to get my 6 pack of cheap beer. I will survive another day. Tastes good after a 27 mile ride.


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Old 11-05-20, 05:00 PM
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I'm generally optimistic but I dunno. I pulled myself out of poverty by working my way through college. I received a $5k Pell grant my 2nd year, and was earning money, contributing to the economy, and paying that $5k back many-fold within a year of graduating.

Now I have two nieces I'm watching attempt the same thing, and in today's economy they are screwed. Where I had to work something like 8 hours as an unskilled laborer to pay for one credit hour of college, they have to work 60 hours to pay for the same. When I was 20 and starting college on the cheap, I figured in six years I'll graduate, and be 26 with a degree. Better, I calculated, than being 26 without a degree. For them, ha, more like 40 if they fund it themselves. More than likely they'll give it up and punch the clock for peanuts, which seems to be what the world wants.

Meanwhile I'm supposed to ramp up the India software development team, with the expectation that the US software team will dwindle via attrition. So even for the ones who do manage an education, with or without parental support, they're screwed too.

I'm optimistic... that stakeholders' wealth will grow, and the minions will be able to serve them drinks and fix their plumbing - and be expect to be happy to have that opportunity.
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Old 11-05-20, 06:21 PM
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Originally Posted by AlmostTrick View Post
I've felt pessimistic of humanities future as a teen back in the 70's mainly due to over population, environmental degradation and war. The writing was always on the wall if you paid any attention and thought about how it would play out. It was the main reason I decided I didn't want to bring any more humans into the world. No regrets on that decision.
None of that worries me more than me wondering about the future of jobs in this country.

The population keeps increasing. Automation keeps replacing the need for skilled and unskilled workers. Working class careers are increasingly going away leaving people to turn to the unlivable wages of the gig economy. Or, working two part time jobs since full time work is not offered in many cases so that employers can avoid paying for health insurance, workman's comp, etc.

There is no way that all the upper income folks would be taxed enough to pay for all that basic income or welfare.
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Old 11-05-20, 06:23 PM
  #18  
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Originally Posted by downtube42 View Post
I'm generally optimistic but I dunno. I pulled myself out of poverty by working my way through college. I received a $5k Pell grant my 2nd year, and was earning money, contributing to the economy, and paying that $5k back many-fold within a year of graduating.

Now I have two nieces I'm watching attempt the same thing, and in today's economy they are screwed. Where I had to work something like 8 hours as an unskilled laborer to pay for one credit hour of college, they have to work 60 hours to pay for the same. When I was 20 and starting college on the cheap, I figured in six years I'll graduate, and be 26 with a degree. Better, I calculated, than being 26 without a degree. For them, ha, more like 40 if they fund it themselves. More than likely they'll give it up and punch the clock for peanuts, which seems to be what the world wants.

Meanwhile I'm supposed to ramp up the India software development team, with the expectation that the US software team will dwindle via attrition. So even for the ones who do manage an education, with or without parental support, they're screwed too.

I'm optimistic... that stakeholders' wealth will grow, and the minions will be able to serve them drinks and fix their plumbing - and be expect to be happy to have that opportunity.
That's why my youngest started at the local community college and transferred to a local university. She lives at home and, pre-pandemic, would drive to class every school day.

We can't imagine paying for a traditional nationally well known university.
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Old 11-05-20, 06:47 PM
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Originally Posted by FiftySix View Post
That's why my youngest started at the local community college and transferred to a local university. She lives at home and, pre-pandemic, would drive to class every school day.

We can't imagine paying for a traditional nationally well known university.
I went to a regional campus, living at home. That school is not affordable today for someone in my situation.

Pricing quality education out of range of your population is incredibly stupid policy for a country. We will be left in the dust.
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Old 11-05-20, 09:23 PM
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The older I get the more I realize how little I know and that my life is barely a tick in an endless clock.

Helps keep things in perspective.

Although as Douglas Adams warned, “If life is going to exist in a Universe of this size, then the one thing it cannot afford to have is a sense of proportion.”
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Old 11-08-20, 07:20 AM
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Originally Posted by FiftySix View Post
Working class careers are increasingly going away leaving people to turn to the unlivable wages of the gig economy. Or, working two part time jobs since full time work is not offered in many cases so that employers can avoid paying for health insurance, workman's comp, etc..
The Trades aren't going anywhere. plumbers, electricians, construction are all hurting for bodies. people need to realize they might actually have to "work" for a living.
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Old 11-08-20, 07:50 AM
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Originally Posted by FiftySix View Post
None of that worries me more than me wondering about the future of jobs in this country.

The population keeps increasing. Automation keeps replacing the need for skilled and unskilled workers. Working class careers are increasingly going away leaving people to turn to the unlivable wages of the gig economy. Or, working two part time jobs since full time work is not offered in many cases so that employers can avoid paying for health insurance, workman's comp, etc.

There is no way that all the upper income folks would be taxed enough to pay for all that basic income or welfare.
When our kids were applying to colleges, and even since them, I’ve always stressed to them that they think beyond getting a “job.” I’ve encouraged them to be entrepreneurial as it’s better to be the one hiring than the one being hired. We’ll see where that takes them, but they are both in fields where they won’t be tied to working for others if they don’t want to.
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Old 11-08-20, 08:23 AM
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Originally Posted by dedhed View Post
The Trades aren't going anywhere. plumbers, electricians, construction are all hurting for bodies. people need to realize they might actually have to "work" for a living.
I should have continued on in that when I was younger and got a contractors license. During high school and college the electrician & pool contractor who lived across across the street from my parents would hire my older brother and I to help wire new homes. Pretty basic, but you learned a lot about how basic home wiring was laided-out, circuit breaker panels, 3-phase systems, etc. Those skills have come in really handy now that I've got my own home.
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Old 11-08-20, 08:25 AM
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Originally Posted by dedhed View Post
The Trades aren't going anywhere. plumbers, electricians, construction are all hurting for bodies. people need to realize they might actually have to "work" for a living.
I worked as an electrician... it really wasn't that bad. I was also a state certified and bonded alarm installer. Both are generally "clean" jobs, but you may end up in a hot attic or two from time to time.

New construction was the best approach... pulling wire and cable in a just framed out house isn't bad at all. And the pay was pretty good.
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Old 11-08-20, 09:06 AM
  #25  
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Originally Posted by chewybrian View Post
Technology should be setting us free. The robots can build more robots, and they can do all the dirty work for us. Drones can deliver anything we want right to us. Nobody should be wanting for anything.

Instead, it looks like we will allow technology to be used by the rich and powerful to enslave us. It can be used to watch us at every moment, to inspire the reactions the powerful wish us to have, and to quickly spot and crush opposition. We should be heading to a time when a lie can not survive beyond the moment it is spoken, as we have the tools at hand to verify or disprove anything in an instant. Instead, these tools are used to spread lies by the powerful, and by the rest of us to confirm our prejudices instead of searching for the truth.

I wish I could see something positive for the future, but honestly I can't. I fear that we don't fully appreciate the importance of things like checks and balances. We are too quick to throw them away to "solve" a temporary problem. The tyrants will never stop, and the rest of us just want to go about our business and live our lives, and don't fully appreciate the tenacity of the tyrant until he is too big to fight. With the technology that is here and around the corner, we can't afford to be fooled again, or we may never go back. 1984 is a real possibility.
Your take on the future is quite dark and foreboding. I cannot, however, disagree with your assessment.

The masses are easily deceived. As long as they are fed their daily dose of pablum and as long as they can buy cheap, discounted items from the local big box retailer, they are happy.

Maybe we have all turned into The Pretender in Jackson Browne’s anthem.

There is, however, a glimmer of hope. Young people, in their mid 20’s to mid 30’s, are growing increasingly unhappy with the status quo. They long for a different kind of future. If there is going to be meaningful change, it will come from them.

Let’s hope so.
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