Maelochs

Is is safe to put low-rider panniers on CF forks with fender holes? I have a set of front racks that clamp to the forks (for forks not drilled for racks) and I wonder if there is any knowledge/wisdom/lore apocryphal BS about using that sort of rack with CF forks.

djb

I have always been told that one should never clamp stuff onto a cf fork like you are thinking of doing. I do have a cf fork with mid rack mounting bolts, and have used front rack on it , although being careful of it, weight wise in bags and also riding.

I think the general concensus is to never do the clamp thing. There must be good reason for why this is the usual take on it, both from manufacturers and other sources.

Maelochs

I know the issue with clamping on CF tubes is crushability ... but a fork is designed to take a lot of pounding, whereas a steerer tube or a seat tube is not ... those tubes are designed to be thin and light (hence expander plugs and bolt-on derailleurs.)

I am glad to hear that some CF forks are drilled /tapped for racks ... I figured if the fork could take my weight when I slam a pothole I didn't see, it could handle a lot of stresses generally ... but I had never heard of or seen tapped CF forks. II have also never heard about not clamping to a CF fork ... just other CF tubes. Maybe no one else was crazy enough even to ask?)

I am looking to buy or build another touring bike but I don't want to go with the traditional 30-pound steel frame ... I am not planning to cross Asia unsupported and don't expect to be asking some village blacksmith to be fixing a cracked frame.

I won't take your response as more than it is ... but it opens a line of inquiry---now I know there are tapped CF forks.

Thanks.

Marcus_Ti

There are 3 retail-channel available carbon fiber front forks with threaded holes intended for panniers (all are for disc brake):

-Fyxation
-Niner
-Rodeo Labs

Specialized's Sequoia steel bike has a similar such fork....but that fork AFAIK is not available without buying the whole bike.


As to your original query about the strength of holes....ask the fork manufacturer, they'll tell you if it is a terrible idea or not.

djb

For reference, my fork is from a 2010 Specialized Tricross. The mid threaded hole cf fork had been on that bike for a number years even in 2010, but a couple of years later they changed the fork to an aluminum one, but the cf one was sold on that model for about 5 years I'd say.

Realisitically re the whole "clamping" issue is always going to come down to the fact that if a given frame tube, fork of a bike, is designed to take forces in a certain way, no one will ever give you the ok officially to clamp stuff on it that introduces forces in a diff way, AND....

and a big AND, when you are talking clamping forces, as a manufacturer with liability, they will no way in hell say its ok to clamp something on your fork when Joe Blow goes and clamps the fricken heck out of a clamp onto it, doing the very slight , or not so very slight, crushing damage, which then completely changes the structural abilities of the cf.

Just makes sense, and even though I am not an engineer, I can see the can of worms that comes into play with playing with structural integrity of things, and as always comes up with discussions like this, a front fork isnt something you want to introduce "maybes" with in terms of its structural integrity (not me anyway).

Maelochs

Thanks both.

I had been looking for aluminum frames with steel forks (what I have now) but I might extend my search.

I am not worried about clamping forces crushing the fork. I am more worried about concentrated lateral load on the clamp site when the load swings. I figure is some forks are able to take the strain ... probaboly most grave bike forks could do it. Still, I would rather not suffer fork collapse ... I guess I have lost my adventurous spirit.

Marcus_Ti

The Sequoia is a steel frameset (don't know what tubeset) with some decent stock floor builds.

Niner's RLT9 (Reynolds 853 steel) and RLT RDO (carbon) bikes come with their "gravel fork". The steel RLT9 might make a great touring machine. The fork to use separately is a tapered steer FYI...aftermarket stocks were low back 2 months ago when I bought mine. Clearance for 45mm IRL measure tire easy

The Fyxation is a straight steer 1-1/8" carbon fork....it has the lowest clearance of the lot I believe with room for a 42mm tire

The Rodeo Labs fork is the highest clearance with room for a 50mm I want to say....stock shipments are only once a month, so there may be lead time. Tapered steer. This fork comes stock on Rodeo's Trail Donkey and Flaanimal.


Catch with the Specialized and the RLT9 and RLT RDO builds...is they come with a standard roadie compact crankset...which is ofc probably too tough a gearing for touring, unless you are from FlatLand.

Tourist in MSN

A friend of mine tours with a Carbon fork, his has the mid-fork rack mounts in the fork.

I do not understand the aversion to steel forks, but I have always used a steel fork so perhaps I am ignorant. I put a steel fork on my Titanium bike.

My friend with the Carbon fork is quite weight adverse, he took the computer off of his bike to lighten it. But it does not really make him any faster. His bike is in the photo. I think the fork is an old Bontrager that he picked up somewhere.

TimothyH

For reference, this is the fork which comes on the Niner RLT 9 RDO. I don't think it is available apart from a frameset or complete bike.

This is designed for flat mount brakes. The fork listed on the website for individual purchase is designed for post mount brakes. Both have external hose routing.








-Tim-

Maelochs

Thanks again, to everyone.

yeah, I have looked at a couple bikes with compact road gears and everything else I wanted .... and I Don't want to have to replace a set of brifters and a crankset and a FD. I am from Flatworld ... but don't want to be limited to here. "I just built this new touring rig ... sorry i can't use it 34 of 50 states."

I have a lot more shop/search ideas now.

djb

Tourist, I understand being concerned about weight, but I'm surprised your friend didn't get Plus fabric Ortliebs, with for of them you save a fair amount of weight, although they are quite a bit more expensive.

An aside, and kinda goofy about his bike computer, we're talking 30g maybe for knowing how far it really is to the next town.

Tourist in MSN

He relies on me to tell him how far we have to go.

Yeah, the photo was on our last trip and the front panniers were new. He got pretty embarrassed when we did Pacific Coast and we would walk out of a grocery store, his rear panniers had enough room for maybe two cans of food and the rest of two bags of groceries had to go on my bike. Thus, this trip he was setup to carry his share of groceries. On this trip he also left his Brooks Pro at home, instead brought a saddle that had carbon rails - which after a few days decided was a mistake. Saddle was lighter, but not as comfortable. He loves that Titanium Habanero and he likes that carbon seatpost.

djb

I totally get being careful of how much stuff weighs, but for me it comes down partly to cost of things and also how much comfort or enjoyment one gets out of X thing.
re the seat, I tried a Brooks seat a bunch of years ago now and given that I can ride day after day and not have a sore keester at all, I don't really worry that it weighs 200g or more than a really light seat. I did however buy lighter racks front and back than some other brands, yet on my last trip I carried my 4.5 lb tent where if I had wanted to spend a good 400 bucks canadian, I could have a 2lb tent....meh I said, I'll take the tent I have and use that money for stuff on my trip..
Oh well, like I said, I appreciate having 5, 10lbs less stuff at times, but then if I have to carry more stuff, I just go a bit slower but still have fun on a trip.

birru

Oh great, yet another axle standard.

seeker333

It looks like Tourist's friend already made the best choice of Ortlieb panniers, WRT reducing weight and cost.

Pictured in #8 appears to be Back Roller City and Sport Roller City panniers. Note the lack of shoulder straps and lower fastener on front of bags, and also the closing straps are fastened to the sides.

https://www.ortlieb.com/wp-content/themes/ortlieb-theme/pdf/en/radtasche.pdf

A set (F+R) of Roller City bags weighs 1520+1210=2730g, which is 390g lighter than Roller Plus and 760d lighter than a set of Roller Classic. All weights for combined pannier volume of 65l (4 bags).

plus 1680 1440 3120
classic 1900 1590 3490
city 1520 1210 2730

You can buy a complete set of Ortlieb Roller City bags for $137 plus a fixed $39 S/H fee from Hollandbikeshop.com (HBS), and number of other German shops for 10-20 bucks more. If you buy from HBS, it would make sense to get racks, parts etc and take advantage of the fixed S/H fee.

I've mentioned the weight and cost reduction advantage of City bags a few times before.

Tourist in MSN

I have had my front and back roller panniers for almost a decade, but he was using a big pair of Performance in-house brand of panniers on the rear for most of those years. But three years ago he decided for Pacific coast, waterproof might be a good idea so he got the rear Ortliebs. I had not thought about the weight difference between City version and Roller version, but now that you mention it that might be why he bought them. I am surprised at that difference.

He would always lecture me on carrying too much heavy stuff, but day after day when he could not carry his share of the food because he had no capacity to carry it, no more lectures after that.

I have never been accused of being a lightweight biker, but a couple weeks ago I did a five day trip and after we ate some food I no longer needed a bag on top of the rear rack other than my tent pole bag. Photo is of me on my new bike.

djb

Good spot seeker, I should have noticed the front panniers, the pole in front of the rear bags is right in front of the usual mid clip, my mistake.

I agree completely with you about the city v version, they are a great option and I recently in the last month had been looking at and considering a pair for someone.

I've meant for a long time to do a comparison of all our household panniers, going back more than 25 years, and especially how my 93 or 94 Ortlieb pluses are quite a bit lighter than the recent ones.
The city version is very similar to my old plus's, no inner pockets, and as you say, no strap and extra material makes for some great weight savings.
I personally use the easy " overload" feature often enough that I wouldn't want some city's, but they would be great for lots of people.

Thanks again for nothing that and mentioning the Dutch site, will look into it and figure out the exchange difference for us, unfortunately a good 35% more.

Tourist in MSN

I really do like the strap that goes over the top of the front and rear roller models. I often strap my rain gear or damp laundry on top under that strap. In the photo above in post 16 you can see my black rain pants strapped on top of my left front roller pannier. In the photo attached here my bike is the one closest to the camera, you can see my red rain jacket strapped to a rear pannier and some damp laundry in a mesh bag strapped to the right rear pannier.

I like to strap rain gear to the outside so it is accessible extremely fast.

Maelochs

My issue with weight isn't so much fully loaded when I couldn't possibly notice an extra five pounds. I am more thinking of getting more use out of the bike in general. I figure a decent touring set-up would also be a decent gravel set-up ... and fine for commuting, too. My current tourer spends too much time sitting.

djb

me too, especially in those on/off sort of days, usually my rain gear is in my right front pannier, but as soon as its iffy or if I take it off and or take it off and its still wet, under the strap it goes.
I didnt think of mentioning this in my last post, but yes, these two aspects of rollers, easy expandability/overload a bit, and the strap for sticking stuff under, are deal breakers for me (and also mention being able to click on a rackpack, although not that many folks use them perhaps--and yes, Doug, you were right, I really liked using mine even if I could have gotten away with it, it was there for easy extra food packing and in case I had to use the extra water bladders I took along with me, but never did)

Marcus_Ti

That is just a shipping spacer, same as a QR fork. The Niner is 15x100 thru-axle.

djb

just to add, for Canadians, our costs would be $185ca. and $53ca. shipping, so $234 before the duty fee (usually about $15 I think, plus the two canadian taxes of about 15%, so around 285-290can. for the set.

Here in stores, I've recently seen the City rear's for 150+tax, so $172.50, the fronts are I think 130 each, so around $322can. 30 or 40 bucks cheaper from Holland.

birru

Yes, I know.

Tourist in MSN

My expedition bike, first photo is in Iceland last summer (with a rackpack like mentioned by djb), second photo is day tripping on Maah Daah Hey mountain bike trail in North Dakota the year before, third photo is a vehicle supported four day trip in Canyonlands Utah the year before that.

For the mountain biking I put on the suspension fork, use the solid fork for touring.

This is a heavy bike, it will carry all the weight you will ever want to put on it, but you might not want to commute with it because of teh weight. But for around town use I have fenders on it, rode it yesterday to the grocery store.

My problem is that I have three touring bikes, so none of them get enough use.