hfbill

In general, how difficult is it to convert a bike to a Rohloff? I have a Haro 29er (disk brakes) that I use as a winter bike and as I have to overhaul the drivetrain on it anyway (it's shot!), I'm considering a Rohloff. The problem is that I don't think any of my LBSs here in rural upstate NY have any more experience with the Rohloff than I do (none). So I'm trying to determine can this be a DIY project or do I really have to find a shop in the city or some other distant place to do it for me? I'm reasonably handy and well equipped.

Thanks!

Aubergine 

You’ll need to arrange for new cable stops and (without looking at my wife’s bike) I recall the dropouts need a specific shape to hold the hub.

Leebo

^^^ Yes, you need a very specific rear drop out to get it too work.

seeker333

There are several versions of Speedhub, one of which will fit most any bike with standard 135mm OLD vertical (or horizontal) dropouts. No special dropouts or cable stops are required. Coincidentally, this is one of the two versions which can be ordered in the USA from any QBP-affiliated LBS.

The version you need has to include 1. disc brake capability, 2. chain tensioner and 3. torque arm. You'll also need Rohloff's unique 4-bolt disc rotor. All versions of Speedhub include shifter, housing and cables.

https://www.modernbike.com/rohloff-d...b-qr-32h-black

If you are a decent bike mechanic, then the Speedhub conversion can be DIY, no special tools required. Hardest part will be building the 32h wheel, which will require unusually short spokes that are a bit hard to find.

Tourist in MSN

Can you do it? I have no clue.

Setting up chainline is one more thing not mentioned above.

The torque on the axle is significant, that is why the torque arm is needed, some that have taken a shortcut by not wanting to use it have cracked frames. I am not sure if it can use disc mounts for torque arresting or not, someone else may comment on that.

Some people have found that a horizontal dropout works poorly with Rohloffs unless they get the nutted axle version.

Two versions of cable routing, the EX box use outer housing to the hub, internal shift cables usually use a cable stop on a cant brake post and bare cables to the hub.

Usually you can order a Rohloff from Germany at substantial savings, I got mine from an internet seller in Germany for hundreds less than I would have paid in USA.

Follow the Rohloff instructions for lacing up the wheel, do not use 3 cross. That puts too much stress on the spokes at the nipple. Using Sapim nipples helps but is not the sole remedy.

Derailleur bikes use springs in a cage to tension the chain. Rohloffs (like single speeds and other IGH hubs) need a way to adjust the chain length. Some bikes use horizontal dropouts for that.

You did not mention if you are using drop bars or not. This link has one error, the HubBub adapter is metal but the photo shows a wooden DIY substitute for it. (I use a HubBub adapter.)
https://www.cyclingabout.com/rohloff...op-handlebars/

You really should research how bike manufactures set up a bike for Rohloffs to get a better idea on the viability of this. I just threw out thoughts as they came to me, probably missed a few points.


Agree mostly with Seeker333 comments. But, Rohloffs also available in 36 hole, not sure when they added that option but mine (from 2013) is 36 hole.

fietsbob

I say yes ... read the manual .. https://www.rohloff.de/fileadmin/use..._11_web_En.pdf

retro fit uses a strap on the left chainstay.. to transfer internal torque.
QBP has a limited selection, Cycle Monkey has everything.. they are also USA service center and wholesaler.

If starting from scratch, yes there are specific dropouts .. and if you have an ISO rear disc mount , there are fittings to use that bolt pattern.




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veganbikes

While they may not have dealt with a Rohloff they probably have dealt with some IGHs and I am sure would love a fun exciting project like this (I know I would) You might be able to do it but you might not.

The one thing I question is such a nice hub on a bike which looks to be a $3-500 bike through minor research. Granted they might have other versions or have changed it but the two I found are tourney or altus equipped. Certainly if you are comfortable on the bike and are really truly in love with it then go for it but you might keep the Haro as a beater/winter commuter and build yourself up something more special? I love tinkering and improving but you must always ask is the bike worth putting over $1500 into it. Maybe they made a nicer Flightline 29 it is possible but even still is that the bike.
This bike is an excellent choice for semi-custom that doesn't cost a whole arm and a leg. They aren't necessarily cheap but are made in the U.S. and you can get it how you want or go with near features like belt drives and dyanmos...
Rohloff Bicycles and bikes with Rohloff hubs | Rodriguez Custom Bicycles in Seattle
They are super easy to work with and really nice folks who have been doing this a while and probably one of the cheaper semi-custom to full custom U.S. builders out there. Co-Motion also makes some neat Rohloff stuff.

seeker333

Many folks are not satisfied with the standard Speedhub conversion of a derailleur-drivetrain bicycle due to the unsightly torque arm and chain tensioner. This is the point where Speedhub gets complicated (bike-speak for $$$$).

The Speedhub torque arm can eliminated if your bike has special dropouts to mate with one of 3 or 4 Speedhub axle plates, which can be purchased separately and changed as need arises. The most popular are the so-called OEM and OEM2 axle plates, and all Speedhubs are originally configured with either torque arm, OEM or OEM2 axle plates. These axle plates are pictured on link below, near the bottom of the page under the heading "Torque anchoring apparatus":

https://www.rohloff.de/en/products/speedhub/variants/

Surly Troll, Ogre, Disc Trucker and probably more models which I cannot recall provide compatibility for Speedhub's OEM2 axle plate. The OEM2 axle plate engages with a certain size bolt head fit into the non-driveside (NDS) dropout, located in line with the dropout slot.

Generally one must find European sources for a frame/bike equipped with OEM dropout (there's no OEM1), which is basically a NDS vertical dropout where the slot extends further downwards to engage a tab protruding from the OEM axle plate. Bikes/frames made with the OEM NDS dropout typically do not have provision for fitting a derailleur on the driveside (DS) dropout, so you cannot later convert them to derailleur drivetrain. OEM-capable frames often include multiple frame fittings to facilitate secure attachment of the two Speedhub-required cables & full length housing via zip-ties to the NDS chainstay and downtube, and also delete the usual frame fittings for cable routing to front and rear derailleurs.

The Speedhub chain tensioner can be eliminated if your frame has horizontal dropouts, swinging or sliding dropouts, or an eccentric bottom bracket (EBB). Also certain downhill MTB style chain keepers will sort of hide behind the chainrings, but in this case you're simply replacing one chain tensioner with another. It is also possible, though unlikely, to use nothing more than certain combinations of Speedhub cog and chainring to achieve required chain tension, which is a neat solution until you decide to change cog or ring size (teeth). It is also possible to use chain links that are half the normal length (1/2"), so-called half-links, to achieve required chain tension without adjustable dropouts or bottom bracket. IMO, the EBB is the best chain tensioning solution, as it permits normal vertical dropouts which are less likely to interfere with the fitment of racks and fenders. Rodriguez Cycles' Bushnell EBB is one of the best you can own, and certain Rodbike touring bicycles and frames ($$$$) are specifically designed for Speedhub drivetrain.

Speedhub requires routing of two cables and full length housing (disc brake version) along the NDS chainstay and up the downtube to reach the handlebar, where you may encounter another hurdle. The standard Speedhub shifter is made to fit only MTB flat-style handlebars. Like SRAM Gripshifters, the Speedhub shifter ideally must be fit only to handlebars where it can be positioned inboard to some type of rubber bar grip which comfortably locates your hand close to the shifter. Drop handlebar fitment is possible if a third-party adapter ($$$) is purchased separately.

In the near future, Rohloff will offer Speedhubs with electronic shifting for bicycles, which will eliminate several issues with handlebar and cable fitment. Rohloff has debuted E-14 electronic shifting for e-bikes only, because the e-shifting requires a small computer/control module which also controls the electric motor for the e-bike, plus gear and battery level indication, etc. It may be prudent to wait a couple years for Rohloff's introduction of E-14 Speedhub for bicycles, as this would be less costly than retrofitting electronic shifter, wiring and controller.

If you shop Euro LBSs you will find Speedhubs available in red, silver or black finish, QR or threaded axle, 32 or 36h rim capability as well as provisions for certain thru-axles and oversized fat-bike dropout widths. In the USA, QBP sells Speedhub only in two versions, rim or disc brakes, in 32h only. CycleMonkey in CA has the full (Euro) offerings, but they charge top dollar. Euro shopping is usually cheaper, even with greater S/H fee. In 2016 and 2017, due to favorable currency exchange rates, you could buy a Speedhub shipped to USA for $1000 that would cost $1400 from QBP or possibly more from CycleMonkey. Not all Euro shops will sell Rohloff to USA, as Rohloff sales policy forbids the practice, which would undercut USA pricing (same situation with Ortlieb). However, there are Euro shops that ignore Rohloff policy.

Something else to consider WRT Speedhub - there are dozens of smaller Euro bike manufacturers that sell well-designed Speedhub-capable trekking bikes. Cost-wise some of these bikes are the about the same or cheaper than converting a USA bike to Speedhub. Unfortunately many of these Euro bike makers do not export outside Germany or EU countries, and if they do, S/H will be $$$.

WRT to OP's earlier thread, and the topic of combining Speedhub+Gates belt, this is technically the most difficult, costly option. Gates belts require a frame with a disconnectable DS dropout or seatstay, so that the belt can get "inside" the DS rear triangle - there are no chainbreaker tools or quick-links for Gates' belts. Combining Speedhub+Gates is expensive unless you are handy at brazing one of these tube-splitters into your bike's DS seatstay.

Gates' belts require high tension to work reliably, and for this reason Gates certifies frames/bikes which possess rear triangle rigidity suitable for the application. There have been issues with belts skipping off the cog, and at one point CoMotion's belt drive bikes were fitted with a belt snubber to prevent belt skips and damage due to inadequate belt tension. This seems to have been resolved with the second generation of Gates' belts. Rodbikes or CoMotion are probably the best place to shop for Speedhub+Gates capable bicycles in the USA.

In 2016 Speedhub changed the threaded sprocket to a splined carrier retained by a snap ring, which permits the user to change sprocket with nothing more than a flat blade screwdriver or pocket knife. The snap ring can be pressed back into place by hand. The newer sprockets are available in a wider gear range and are smaller and weigh less, if you wish to carry a spare.

It's probably cheaper to buy rotor, tool, oil flush kit, spare oil, etc from Euro LBS, even with the recent shift in currency exchange rates and higher S/H fee. Add these to an order for Ortlieb bags and/or Tubus racks to increase savings over same purchase from USA sellers.

seeker333

I would definitely get the the nutted version (as opposed to QR version) for horizontal dropouts, although OP almost certainly has vertical dropouts on a "Haro 29er".

Disc-capable Speedhubs are sold only in 32h from QBP and local QBP-affiliated bike shops (90% of USA LBSs). CycleMonkey (CM) has sold Speedhubs in 36h since they were introduced in 2012? for more $, and IIRC they sold their Speedhubs only as a complete wheel. QBP and CM are the only Rohloff distributors in USA.

QBP has sold rim brake 36h Speedhub in silver finish for a few years now. If you want a black disc 36h Speedhub, you have to buy it from CM or a European Internet Bike Shop who is willing to ignore Rohloff sales policy. Starbike.com sold a lot of Speedhubs to USA mtbr.com users until Rohloff delayed shipments to them and they "remembered" the sales agreement.

BTW, OP, mtbr.com is a very good source for information on all things Rohloff and IGH:

https://lmgtfy.com/?q=rohloff+speedhub+site%3Amtbr.com <--- 1,750 search results

CreakingCrank

1. You do not need a special type of dropout, but a chain tensioner like Surly's Singleator will be necessary to tension the chain. There are cheaper options. They connect to the derailleur mount.

2. You need a disc brake version of the hub but do not need the torque-arm version. You will need a Rohloff-specific brake adapter and a specialized axle plate. You probably have post mount brakes. If so, you will need the post mount adapter and plate. If you have IS mounts, you will need a Monkeybone or Speedbone brake adapter and an OEM2 axle plate. The brake adapters are rotor-size specific.

3. The hub comes with a shifter, cables and housing. The cable diameter is 1.1 mm. This video explains the shifter install procedure. Its shows a Co-motion shifter but the process is the exact same for the stock shifter.
4. Don't let your LBS build the wheel unless they are very Rohloff savvy (very very few are). Consider Radsport-Erdmann in Germany. They are Rohloff specialists and can build a wheel to your specs and ship it to your door cheaper than any US company. They have a tool on their website to configure a wheel. I suggest Ryde Andra rims (model 30, 40 or 210), stainless spokes and brass nipples. They also have the axle plate and brake adapters. You need to translate the website but they communicate in English through email.

5. The hub has a 4-bolt rotor pattern. You will need to get a 4-bolt rotor (match size with the brake adapter).

6. I suggest the External Mesh version. It makes wheel removal easier.

7. You do not need cable stops, as you can run full housing from shifter to hub. Zip-tie them to the frame.

Models 8020 (Silver), 8021 (Red), 8022 (Black) are for disc brakes, external mesh and threaded axle.

I blogged my bike build. Maybe it will help: Soma Wolverine Build

Tourist in MSN

Note to Op: The reason you need a different rotor for disc brakes with a Rohloff is that the Rohloff does not use the common six bolt pattern. I think they use four bolts? (Mine in the photo is the non-disc version so I am not exactly sure what they use.)

Seeker, are you sure that consumers can't fit the carrier? I had not heard that. The carrier is readily available and I do not know what part there could be that would also be needed that only a service rep can do. I am still running threaded sprockets. Because the splined carrier changed the chainline, I bought a spare threaded sprocket to delay when I have to make the switch.
https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/sprocket...8540s/?geoc=US

I thought that switching from threaded to splined was simply removing the threaded sprocket and installing the carrier.

To help explain the dropout needed for the OEM2, I attached a photo. Also note that mine has the EX Box with full length outer housing cables. If you use a normal bike frame that is not designed for that much torque at the dropout you need the torque arm, but the dropout in the photo was designed specifically for the Rohloff.

Note to Op: If you are confused about two cables to shift, one cable is pulled to upshift and the other to downshift. Both cables are normally slack except when shifting. The indexing is in the hub, not the shifter.

Tourist in MSN

I think any wheel builder can build the wheel if they read the Rohloff instructions first to make sure they get the correct cross pattern and get the lacing right next to the flange plate.

CreakingCrank

You would think so, but that is a big IF in your post. Two LBS mechanics have touched my Rohloff. One damaged the hub just trying to get the sprocket off! He did not read the Rohloff instructions and arrogantly ignored me when I told him how it came off. The other wanted to use the wrong tool and would have damaged the hub more if I hadn't stopped him. Never again!

Tourist in MSN

Ok. No bike mechanic has worked on my Rohloff bike. So, I have not run that risk. One of my neighbors is a bike mechanic at one of the largest bike shops in my community. He has told me that my Rohloff is the only one he has ever seen.

I have not worked in a bike shop since the 1970s, but I had no trouble putting my bike together which includes lacing up and truing my wheels. I bought a rim with Rohloff specific drilling (Ryde Andra 30) so the spokes don't get bent at the tops of the nipples.

I find getting the sprocket off is pretty easy if you use wrenches that are big enough for leverage.

LuckySailor

You'll have to cut the frame to get the belt in place. Not a big deal if that's the way you want to go about it. Better to just purchase a bike with it already.

delete, mis-spoke

fietsbob

er, So OP, what kind of "Haro 29er" you got,, this one looks like the monkeybone.. a creation of Cycle Monkey https://www.cyclemonkey.com/rohloff Rohloff Monkeybone on Chainstay IS Mounts- Mtbr.com

https://haromtb.com/collections/xc-s...Cat=flightline

with the type 2 OEM fitting rather than the torque arm will do .. Rohloff compatible discs are unique,
Avid makes about the lowest cost 4 bolt Rohloff disc..

https://fernandoj.wordpress.com/2013...e-plate-types/

seeker333

You are correct. Thanks for pointing this out. I have edited post #8 to prevent further confusion.

I'll spare you the explanation for my error. After an hour of search I found the correct answer, possible only because the description for the German video linked below includes the word carrier. Skip to 0:57 unless you happen to speak German.

All you have to do to convert to splined carrier is remove threaded sprocket in normal manner, screw on the carrier, and fit sprocket onto carrier with snap ring (which looks like it would be easier with the carrier off the hub). It's not clear to me what tool is used to remove the carrier if you wish to revert to threaded sprockets.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qetZI-rmND4

Get a splined carrier and a spare snap ring and you'll never need to carry your chainwhip and 20" adjustable wrench on tour again.

CreakingCrank

I have the new splined carrier which won't be installed until the sprocket needs replacing. It is smooth round with no visible way to remove directly. Perhaps one leaves the sprocket attached and uses a chain whip and hub tool like before?

Its also important to note the new carrier #8540 moves the chainline out to 57mm. Another version of the carrier #8540S retains the original 54mm chainline. If using a belt, #8540 must be used and the belt line remains as before.

CreakingCrank

Ooo, the Haro you linked to says it has IS disk mounts, so the MonkeyBone would work with an OEM2 axle plate. It also looks like the rear brake tab is behind the drop out, which is also a requirement to using the MonkeyBone/OEM2 axle plate. Good find.

seeker333

I think you're right, chainwhip and 4-prong tool.

fietsbob

Yes, you fit a cog on it, and use the chain whip to unscrew it, of course..
the thing that is gained , for touring, is you don;t need to do that to replace or invert the cog.

there its as simple as removing the cog from an AW3.. screwdriver , .. snap ring..

cog is not priced as cheap as an AW3 cog though.. 13 spline.. proprietary , So,you have to buy it from them.




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Tourist in MSN

A note on splined carrier, be careful when you remove the ring clip. Small screwdriver is what I heard will do it nicely. (I have not removed a Rohloff one.) But I can tell you that I have had the spring clip on Sturmey Archer AW hubs go flying, so make sure you do not lose your Rohloff spring clip when you remove it.


I do not carry the chain whip or the giant wrench on a tour, if I am in so much trouble that I need it removed, I will go to a bike shop that has those tools. Since most bike shops do not have the Rohloff specific tool, I do carry that on a tour but I would expect a bike shop to have a big chain whip and large vice or adjustable wrench.

But, thanks for the suggestion.


Yup.

My chainline is off about 5mm intentionally, I did not want a wider Q factor (width between pedals), so my bottom bracket spindle is about 10mm shorter than it should be for optimum chain line.

When I heard that the new spine carrier would move the chainline out that much farther, and I also heard that the threaded sprockets will be out of production, I was concerned that my chainline would be too far off. That was when I bought a spare threaded sprocket to delay when I would need to switch to the splined system.

And a few months later, they came out with the thin spline carrier, which could have worked for me. But by then I had already had the spare sprocket long enough that I did not want to try to return it.

seeker333

That's why I wrote "spare snap ring". I didn't think you carried those tools for a second - it was an attempt at humor. Please don't force me to resort to the regular usage of emoticons.

Once on an backpacking trip, around the evening fire, one of the group revealed a Dan Wesson 10" SS .357SWM Target model with Leupold scope, 5-6 lbs of handcannon - so some folk will carry anything when leaving the apparent safety of home.

Tourist in MSN

I suspected humor, that is why I wrote the "thanks for the suggestion" which was my attempt at humor. But I have heard of people that carry the tools necessary to pull the sprocket off. I try to keep my tours to about a month, won't wear out a sprocket in that time.

I know one person that commented that you should make sure your mouth is closed when you remove the spring clip.

fietsbob

a rag over the end should keep the snap ring there as you pry it off..