PanoramicPixel

You know people just don't pick activities at random for this sort of thing. Whether the reasons are valid or not we know they have one. Suggesting people just picked it at random with no thought is coming across as quite snide. Most of my head impacts were off a bike as a kid, because I didn't learn to ride one till much later. But the more I do an activity, the more likely an accident will occur during said activity. Almost all impacts to my head (since riding became an everyday thing) were from riding. Nothing serious thanks to the helmet. Most people I know don't even touch a bike so they have little to no chance of having an injury from it. Me I'm on my bike everyday so my chances are way higher. Everyone goes to the bathroom, walks, or goes up stairs. So the pool of people in that accident percentage is far higher than adding in the very small minority of people that are cyclists. I'm not trying to paint cycling as dangerous and single it out. It just helps be feel safer and make my rides more enjoyable because of it.

JeffOYB

Good to hear that airbag cars aren't helped by helmets. A lot of 1990's/etc era cars are still used. Our family fleet has 2 cars w bags, 2 without. I agree that eventually they all will have. Until pre-bag cars age out probably drivers should wear helmets. I wonder if some seatbelts are also better than others -- like the race-car type. If ppl care about safety they shd use better seatbelts.

As for helmets in the likely slip'n'fall scenarios of daily life -- or for trail walkers and runners, which is more of a hobby -- it's not done because users would consider it a bother even though it wd prolly save billions$ in TBI costs. They might however be persuaded if they were nagged enough. One wd need to mount a equivalent campaign that hobbies have.

mr_bill

So your answer is there are no studies on shower helmets etc....

I prefer health policy to be based on facts.

-mr. bill

CarinusMalmari

Are you implying that bicycle helmets are "Evidence Based Medicine™" now?

wphamilton

That's likely dubious. "For the head-injured occupant at all injury severity levels (Figures 1, ​,3,3, and ​and5),5), the belt restrained and airbag- and belt restrained occupant demonstrated consistently less than half the percentage of injuries compared to the unrestrained population".

"Less than half" means that the airbags and seatbelts do appear to reduce head injuries, they don't eliminate them by any stretch.

wphamilton

We cut the incidents way down by being healthy adults and riding with sanity and full command of our faculties. You can dig into the causes of bike accidents - all of those things that you never do on a bike like riding drunk, wrong way at night without lights etc - eliminate those and it might be hundreds of thousands miles per ER visit.

wingless

My head is waaay too important to me (even though I have a face for radio), so I always wear a helmet when riding a bicycle or motorcycle, even though there is not a requirement to wear one.

Every time I purchase a new helmet I always select the model that is best suited to my application.

Thank goodness, in over a half century of two-wheeled operation my head has yet to touch the ground.

This topic shows my Bell Z20 helmet. I am very happy w/ this helmet and wouldn't hesitate to recommend this product.

People have the right to choose to obey helmet laws, or not. They have the right to lobby for or against helmet laws. In many locations people have the right to choose to wear helmets or not.

IMO, adults should have the right (continue to maintain the right) to decide on wearing a helmet or not. I also support the requirement that mandates children wearing helmets.

mr_bill

2nd generation airbags were mandated in 1998. The paper you quote studied crashes from 1991-1998.

Again, there are NO studies of the effectiveness of helmets + seatbelts + airbags of passenger cars on public roads.

Just as there are NO studies of the effectiveness of shower helmets.

-mr. bill

mr_bill

Implying? Flat out stating that the evidence supports the effectiveness of automobile seatbelts+airbags, motorcycle helmets, equestrian helmets, bicycle helmets, etc.

There is no evidence supporting shower helmets, stairway helmets, etc....

-mr. bill

wphamilton

But more to the point, there are studies showing the incidence of head injury in car accidents. Previously cited here, the driver's risk of head injury is not extremely different than that of the cyclist.

CarinusMalmari

There's no conclusive evidence that proves bicycle helmets even work at all. there's some research that suggest they might have some netto positive effect, but that's the extent of you evidence-based "proof" bicycle helmets work.

avole

What do you mean by « conclusive evidence »? There certainly is a lot of evidence.

Perhaps you could provide some links to the research you found?

CarinusMalmari

Proving the non-existent is kinda hard (read "de facto impossible") so it's kind of unreasonable to ask me to do just that. Besides: the helmet fanboys are the ones who make the claims, and should provide the evidence. Which shouldn't be a problem, since there's said to be "a lot of evidence" and bicycle helmets are apparently even "Evidence Based Medicine™"

Note that I in fact do think that despite their laughably flawed design , I do think that bicycle helmets do have a positive netto outcome on bicycle accidents.

JonathanGennick 

Yes. +1. I don't usually participate in this thread, but you have hit on a point I have also noticed. That point is the helmet as a talisman. Wear it, and you are seen as being safe. Helmets become a sort of lucky charm that we hyperfocus on while losing the big picture.

Stadjer

That's where the vents are for, so you can be safe all the time in the dangerous environment of you bathroom.

One could argue it's none of my business if someone wants to wear his bathroom helmet on a bike, but if I see one I have to wonder what he's up to. Is he planning to hit someone on purpose, or is he planning on reckless and dangerous riding? Shouldn't he consider the safety of others more and concentrate on avoiding accidents?

wphamilton

Just some facts about bathroom accidents.

Bathroom related ER visits in 2008: 234,000
Percentage related to falls: 81%
Head or neck injured: 31%

from the CDC statistics

Compare to approximately 418,000 bicycle-related ER visits in 2009. About the same rate of hospitalization (16% vs 13%), but cycling has a lower percentage of head injury than bathing. (19% involving intracranial head injury - see Table 3 and the last bullet point)

I'll point out that there are more people taking baths and showers than there are cyclists, and generally they do it more frequently than bicycle trips, so there is less risk taking one shower than one bike ride. But the overall magnitude of the number of injuries is similar, and extrapolated head and neck injuries are nearly the same.

mr_bill

Any studies demonstrating the effectiveness of bathroom/shower/bathtub helmets?

crickets

-mr. bill

wphamilton

No one really cares. That's the point.

mr_bill

Actually, lots of people care. Particularly of 65 and older, there have been MANY studies on how to reduce fall injuries, particularly bathroom injuries.

FACT BASED recommendations

What isn't in that set of FACT BASED recommendations? Shower helmets.

-mr. bill

emptym

+1, with the exception that my head has hit the ground. Last year, when riding downhil on an unlit trail in Golden Gate Park, right after a big storm. Hit a huge new pothole and flew. Some pretty bad road rash and hit my head, but my head was well protected by an old Bell Alchera.

avole

People do not have the right to ignore laws in almost every other country on our planet. If you do, you are given whatever the penalty attached to the law is, and there’s little you can do about it. Surely you mean peoplc can choose to ignore a law, and pay the penalty.

wingless

Please enjoy living in France.

Thanks, but I have an acceptable command of language and stand by my words.

In both the USA (all states) and in France, adults maintain the legal right to decide on their own helmet usage.

mr_bill

I have no practical way to lobby Seattle to change their laws. That's up to the people of Seattle.

-mr. bill

avole

Yet your own words deny this. You do not have the write to disobey any law.

Can I suggest night school?

curbtender

Ummm, right. Unless you are making the law...