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Old 12-22-10, 06:54 AM
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Showajitensha
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The story needs to be told...





Long long ago, back when "Made in Japan" was associated with inferior products, back before Toyota, Panasonic, Honda and Nikon became synonomous with the word "quality", the Japanese were producing superb utility bicycles and roadsters.

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Old 12-22-10, 07:01 AM
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Geez. Now I am going to scour eBay for those.
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Old 12-22-10, 08:10 AM
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Look at some of the early Japanese derailleurs featured on "Disraeli Gears" sometime. Really cool stuff. Like, this Shanko-sha from 1951:
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Old 12-22-10, 11:54 AM
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Nice job! Unfortunately, I rarely come across vintage Japanese utility bikes in the USA, at least not here on the East Coast.

On the other hand, I recently picked up a vintage Miyata sprung leather saddle for use on a Raleigh Superbe -- it's in no way inferior to a Brooks B73, and possibly more comfortable. Definitely a quality product.
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Old 12-22-10, 12:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Showajitensha
Long long ago, back when "Made in Japan" was associated with inferior products, back before Toyota, Panasonic, Honda and Nikon became synonomous with the word "quality", the Japanese were producing superb utility bicycles and roadsters.
They were also already producing fine "copies" of the classic constructeur bikes from Singer, Herse, et. al.
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Old 12-22-10, 12:16 PM
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I like those bikes, oh yes I do. I want a "fender ornament." SWEEEEET.
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Old 12-22-10, 03:35 PM
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Thanks for posting those. Great stuff, beautiful bikes. I checked out the blog too, really good. Keep up the good work.
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Old 12-22-10, 03:53 PM
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Cheers! Masterpiece indeed, both the derailler and the Disraeli site!

Originally Posted by rhm
Look at some of the early Japanese derailleurs featured on "Disraeli Gears" sometime. Really cool stuff. Like, this Shanko-sha from 1951:
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Old 12-22-10, 03:54 PM
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My pleasure Buikema, appreciate the positive feedback.
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Old 12-22-10, 03:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Picchio Special
They were also already producing fine "copies" of the classic constructeur bikes from Singer, Herse, et. al.
Indeed. As was true with most products, and international sports, the Japanese start off by "copying" and then refine and improve.
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Old 12-22-10, 04:04 PM
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Miyata, Japan's oldest bicycle manufacturer. Happy to hear that your sprung leather saddle is a quality product. I have a soft spot for old Raleighs espescialy the Superbe and would be restoring them if only I were in the UK. But here in Japan I take what I can find and have been pleasantly surprised at what I have found. Cheers.
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Old 12-22-10, 04:08 PM
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Originally Posted by snarkypup
I like those bikes, oh yes I do. I want a "fender ornament." SWEEEEET.
You can view more fender ornaments at: https://chikutakurinrin.cocolog-nifty...cot/index.html Happy hunting!
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Old 12-22-10, 05:01 PM
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the same could be said of Automobiles. chrome fenders, ornate hood ornamenbts, chrome bumpers, tail fins with fancy turnsignals in them, chrome side striping. all have gone by the wayside in order to cut cost and we have been made to believe that auto is better because of it.
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Old 12-22-10, 06:07 PM
  #14  
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Originally Posted by Showajitensha
Miyata, Japan's oldest bicycle manufacturer. Happy to hear that your sprung leather saddle is a quality product. I have a soft spot for old Raleighs espescialy the Superbe and would be restoring them if only I were in the UK. But here in Japan I take what I can find and have been pleasantly surprised at what I have found. Cheers.
Oh yes. Miyata's have quite a following here. I have a Univega with a Miyata-built lugged Cro-Moly frame that I love.
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Old 12-22-10, 06:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Showajitensha
Indeed. As was true with most products, and international sports, the Japanese start off by "copying" and then refine and improve.
One version of the story is that Herse attended a bike show in Japan circa 1960, and made a huge splash. Herse tapped into Japan's love of French culture, and given the cost also represented the "unobtainable" in the post-war Japanese economy. Thus the indigenous Japanese constructeur bike market, and its supremely gifted domestic artisans, was born. As you mention, the original models were refined - and occasional new models were created, such as the "pass hunter" and "rinko" types. These bikes, though they often equaled and occasionally surpassed their models, remained within range of many Japanese buyers financially. I believe they are still much more affordable in Japan than when imported into the U.S. I put "copies" in quotes in my post precisely because the Japanese builders brought their own insights, sensibilities, and aesthetic to their task, just as U.S. builders did when they adopted the aesthetic of Italian models in the 70's - they built to the ideal as they understood it as much as to the actual models.
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Old 12-22-10, 10:35 PM
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I think I may have to go back to Japan (did a nine day visit about 7 years ago and LOVED it) for reasons beyond the Shinkansen. I may need to bring home a bike. Heck, I could do that in Europe too. I could become a bicycle-buying tourist! Bicycles are the new souvenirs! You know how some people collect thimbles or spoons from everywhere they go? I could buy bikes! Lots of bikes!

<drifts off, dreaming of foreign bikes...>
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Old 12-22-10, 10:47 PM
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I recommend ordering the back-issue of Bicycle Quarterly's Autumn 2008 "Japan Special" edition

https://www.bikequarterly.com/BQ71.html
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Old 12-23-10, 01:20 AM
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Originally Posted by Bianchigirll
the same could be said of Automobiles. chrome fenders, ornate hood ornamenbts, chrome bumpers, tail fins with fancy turnsignals in them, chrome side striping. all have gone by the wayside in order to cut cost and we have been made to believe that auto is better because of it.
Yes, I agree. It is true of many things. Old things seem to have been well built to the point that they were "over-engineered". While I have to agree that hood ornaments, fins, chrome, etc., don't add to the basic performance, they syre do go along way to adding a touch of class to the finished product.
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Old 12-23-10, 01:26 AM
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Originally Posted by Picchio Special
One version of the story is that Herse attended a bike show in Japan circa 1960, and made a huge splash. Herse tapped into Japan's love of French culture, and given the cost also represented the "unobtainable" in the post-war Japanese economy. Thus the indigenous Japanese constructeur bike market, and its supremely gifted domestic artisans, was born. As you mention, the original models were refined - and occasional new models were created, such as the "pass hunter" and "rinko" types. These bikes, though they often equaled and occasionally surpassed their models, remained within range of many Japanese buyers financially. I believe they are still much more affordable in Japan than when imported into the U.S. I put "copies" in quotes in my post precisely because the Japanese builders brought their own insights, sensibilities, and aesthetic to their task, just as U.S. builders did when they adopted the aesthetic of Italian models in the 70's - they built to the ideal as they understood it as much as to the actual models.
Very interesting insight. I enjoyed your reply and analysis very much. Thanks.
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Old 12-23-10, 01:27 AM
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Originally Posted by TimeTravel_0
I recommend ordering the back-issue of Bicycle Quarterly's Autumn 2008 "Japan Special" edition

https://www.bikequarterly.com/BQ71.html
Looks like I did miss a very interesting issue. Thanks for the recommendation, look forward to some good reading!
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