rollagain

I don't know if this is the first of its kind (probably not) but Electra has gone full mini-bike.

https://electra.trekbikes.com/us/en_US/ponto-go/

Oh, yeah, they say you can get it up to 26 mph with the pedals! HAHA! Gimme a break; it weighs 80 pounds!

Only in America--because it's flatly illegal in Europe, and maybe most of the rest of the world.

Ponto Go Home!

rsbob 

Uh, it comes with turn signals and brake light? Doesn’t sound much like an assisted bicycle to me.

retswerb

Apart from anything bike-related, their use of the term "good trouble" in marketing an e-bike rubs me the wrong way. Trek is no John Lewis.

daihard 

Pedal assist up to 28 MPH is considered Class 3 e-bike in the US. There are e-bikes from companies like Tern and Specialized that fall into Class 3, not just Electra.

mtnbud

Yeah,

There's actually a whole bunch of ebike/motorcycles out there.. Hopefully owners understand when their "bike" isn't appropriate for the family bike path.

They put pedals on it so they can call it a bike, but I don't think the builders really expect anyone to use them on pedal power alone.

rollagain

Well, I look forward to the day when all bicycles have those things.

3alarmer 

.
...the NY Times did a series of recent articles in the Health section, remarking on how this market demographic has thus far eluded meaningful regulation.
I started a thread on it in A+S, but it got trolled into closure fairly quickly. The articles are linked there. Anybody else read the two NY times articles on e-bikes today ?

of the stuff I see here out on the MUP, 50% is styled like a motorcycle now. I guess that's what sells. I try to stay out of their way. I don't get the impression the people on them are skilled or knowledgeable.

In other news, as injury rates go up, regulation will eventually pay attention. Someone in P+R pointed out to me that 4 wheeled Neighborhood Electric Vehicles are regulated by the DMV in California. They are much more heavily regulated, need to be registered, and are limited to 25 MPH top speed.

trailangel

So... what's the problem again? That bike has pedals so you can get it to 27 mph and saves on battery when you pedal it. Throttles only to 20 mph.
But it's about 15-20 lbs too heavy and about $1,000. too much.
If you don't like them.. just look away....and you won't get grumpy.

chaadster

Those kinds of eebs are a blast to ride, and IMO, one of the best ways to get around dense cities like Paris, CDMX, and NYC. I’m not one to mingle with the hoi polloi on public transit, though.

Camilo

There's been motorcycles called "Mopeds"* for decades. They have pedals, but also a throttle and were considered motorcycles. I, for the life of me, can't understand why lawmakers consider the electric equivalent to be bicycles. Both do allow you to pedal, yes, but also allow you to run them by throttle, with no pedaling. Why is a quiet motorcycle any different than a loud one?

*I'm talking about real mopeds with pedals. The term moped, in a lot of cases, has been generalized to any small motorized scooter (like a Vespa), but the key is real mopeds, like electric throttle operated "bicycles" have pedals.

Camilo

If it has a throttle that allows you to move without pedaling, it's a motorcycle by any reasonable definition , not a bicycle. Regardless of what the idiot regulators think.

3alarmer 

...looking away is a bad idea when something is coming at you going 25 mph that weighs that much, in a three foot wide bike lane. In California, they are even legal on sidewalks,

. If you read those NYT articles, maybe you'll figure out that :

1. Regulations differ by state.
2. Many of them are subject to user modification to eliminate those pesky speed governors.

Those are problems, even with experienced users. This discussion always goes in this direction. It's too bad, because while the discussions get shut down quickly, the marketplace continues to overload the relatively limited bicycle infrastructure here, with stuff that was prohibited, when propelled with ICE technology. It's not about them going faster than me. In fact, I consciously slow down when I'm aware of them nearby. I want them to get far away from me, in the shortest time frame possible. It's about the standard problem of increasing severity of injury, in collisions involving higher forces due to mass and speed.

Leisesturm

Unless it's a torque sensing PAS, even a cadence sensing e-assist can move without the pedaling needing any real effort. You can just put it in a ridiculously low gear and let the motor do ALL the work. And? On the scale of evil things humans can do I consider this stuff SMALL potatoes. And if you are so small that needing to see people pedal their bikes even if the pedaling is pointless ... that's just ... small. Those monowheel things ... stand up scooters ... motorcycles by any reasonable definition? Whelp, I think its time to stop supporting the irrational e-bike hate that proliferates on BF and really start shaming the haters. E-bikes are here. They aren't going anywhere. I don't ride one (yet) but I don't think that people that do, or want to, are damned to hellfire.

TiHabanero

Solex, Puch, Spree, etc. all come to mind when I watch the video. Just a different flavor of moped, that's all. A long, long time ago the shop I worked in took on Solex to see what kind of extra numbers they were able to add to the bottom line. One year and we were out of it. Needed a small engine repair person on staff and there was not enough profit to permit it.
I imagine the e-bikes and e-mopeds will get to the same place, a tech on staff that is able to work on them in an efficient manner. Could be a gold mine in the right community.

bruce19

One of the reasons I cycle is to get the health benefits of regular, strenuous exercise. If e-bikes evolve (devolve?) into battery operated mini-bikes then that benefit is gone.

shelbyfv

I think it's pretty cool. Throttle and comfortable seating. Self aware and little attempt to mimic an actual bike. If I wanted a motorbike it would be something similar. That said, I question the wisdom of this thread outside of "Ebikes."

daviddavieboy

It's not like signal lights would be used anyway. The ONLY reason brake lights are used is because people have no choice as the are activated when the brakes are used.

That would make it a MOPED not a motorcycle.

Easy solution - don't get one.. It's not like anyone would be forcing you to get one. Being said I ran out of battery on my E-converted touring bike after 100 KM off road. It was a great workout to make the final 30km to my stop for the day. I was nursing a injury at the time and would have NEVER been able to ride that far at all if it was not assisted.

shelbyfv

As I said....

CAT7RDR

My last ride I was passed quickly by an e-bike at the start of a 10% grade. The young man was soft pedaling and gave me plenty of room.
At first I thought it was a Tesla due to the motor's sound and noise from the churning 4 inch treads until it came around the corner. They are noisy beasts.

Eyes Roll

How far does it go before it requires a recharge? 50 miles? 75 miles? 100 miles? What if the battery fails or runs out early after riding that fat thing only 25 miles? Do we have to find an electric outlet on the road side at a gas station or fast-food restaurant? How many hours does it take to recharge? Do we still have to carry tire levers, a tire tube, stand by the road and struggle to remove and put back that fat tire, whenever there is a flat?

I think I will stick to the old-school approach and continue pedaling my very fine vintage road bike for an unlimited number of miles at a speed of 20 mph. This not only keeps my feet strong but also contributes to maintaining excellent health. I do not think I am willing to take the additional headaches that come with latest technologies for a mere additional 6 mph at this time.

john m flores 

If ebikes evolve as you describe and you continue to ride your regular bicycle, you'll continue to get the health benefits of regular, strenuous exercise.

Some ebike users have different objectives - getting to work without being a sweaty mess, bringing young children to the park, hauling a week's worth of groceries home. They still get some exercise, and each trip they take decreases the number of cars on the road

If we all play our cards right, that can lead to more bike infrastructure for all of us.

Chuck Naill

I agree. No one should feel threatened...LOL!!

Steel Charlie

For what amounts to an electric toy the prices alone make them ridiculously easy to avoid AFAIC. I suspect that some parents will be fooled by the "bicycle" and "electric". But, mopeds never really found a niche in the culture of cars and didn't leave an empty one, and ebikes may not either. Even the Cub that made Honda's fortune has faded into obscurity.
My worry level is still zero
JMO of course. YMMV

Maelochs

So ... we are so glad we live in America, where we have freedom .... to tell everyone else how they need to live to make us happy.

And we are so glad we have a form of free-market capitalism because we have access to an amazing range of products ... but nobody ever better ever produce a product we don't like or approve of. Who cares what other people want? I f I don't want it, no one else can have rights of freedoms. Screw everybody else.

Another thread here deals with the unbelievable outrage of people Walking on a multi-use path designed for walking and riding. And there have been threads which descried people rising pedal-powered bikes too fast on MUPs (shouting "Strava, Strava!" as they blew through crowds.)

So ... people like to ride electric scooters. Yeah, I can see how letting people do what they want is a real problem. They also drive cars .... and kill 30-40 Thousand people each year. And cars Are heavily regulated. Where is your list of the people who have caused injury and death on these scooters?

Should they be allowed on MUPs? Well ... should pedal bikers? After all, one butthead on a pedal bike can create as much havoc as on any other transport modality. Should peo0pel be allowed to bring dogs? We all know of times butthead dog owners have created hazards on MUPs. How about kids? Let's ban kids entirely----you want a child, keep it indoors until it is 18. Then our residential streets and MUPs would be more available for people on pedal bikes who think they own those streets and paths. And let's ban headphones anywhere except in the home or on public transit.

First point---things aren't that bad. Second--if there is a serious issue, prove it, and then get active. Whining here just makes you all look silly. If these scooters are universally hazardous, getting legislation should be easy. If not ... then you are just looking for outlets upon which to vent your general anomie .... so get a life, or make your own life better, and stop blaming the world. it isn't the world.

I see a lot of these mini-electric motorcycles. They are usually ridden by older teens and younger adults, in the bike lanes, and rarely are the riders pedaling. What does this mean? It means there are fewer cars, and fewer people using all the resources cars use. I'd wager that a short commute on an e-bike uses a Lot less energy than doing anything in a car, and since almost all cars have only a single person inside ......

If the issue is abuse, demand enforcement. Demand enforcement for All road users, or for whoever actually and demonstrably breaks laws and creates hazards. if you truly do see a lot of people using these things in an illegal fashion treat it as you would any other crime. Document it and report it. Publish the video online and put pressure on local politicians. That's how change starts ... not by whining here.

If your issue is just fear then get over it.

If the issue is that you are offended that someone might think You are actually an "e-cyclist" and not a "Real Cyclist™" get over yourself.

There are a lot of ways to live life. You can tell when a person is satisfied with his/her options---it is when they start trying to limit everyone else;'s options. "I got mine. Everybody else needs to be shut down so I don't have to share."

Yeah ... a lot of people like the idea of riding a small, maneuverable, inexpensive vehicles. heard of mopeds? Somehow, mopeds and gas-powered scooters, with all the same performance abilities, have failed to end the world in a century of trying. Probably e-scooters will not end the world either.

Go ride your bike.

Caveman

I have no desire to own an e-bike. None. Zero. Nada. Zip. However it's none of my business what other people choose to ride but I do have some opinions about them.

I don't understand people that ride an e-bike for exercise. An hour or two of riding is an hour or two of riding. Why does it matter how far or fast you go? Isn't the effort put into pedaling the point?

I also don't understand people that claim the only way they can ride is with an electric assist bike. Why? You may be slower and can't go as far but so what? The ride is the point, not distance and speed.

I do understand people that get an e-bike as their main source of transportation and use them to commute in urban areas. That makes sense to me. They're economical and convenient. Good call.

The ebike community had better get their collective stuff together and self impose some sort of standards and etiquette on how they're going to interact with cars, pedestrians and other cyclists. If they don't they're going to create a storm of rules, regulations, ordinances, etc they will not like. Licenses? Insurance? Unable to access certain trails? Minimum equipment requirements (lights, horn, etc). They had better start riding their ebikes in responsible ways or things are going to change in ways they will not like.

I like the above comment that compared ebikes to mopeds. The exact same thing IMO except one has a gas motor and the other an electric motor.