JeffOYB

I have sweet pink latex Victoria tubes in various wheels. Last week on a ride both wheels on my gravel bike flatted in the same place of the tube, due to tube failure, an hour apart. The rims are different, the wheels are different, and they both have good rim tape. Yet each tube failed in the same place -- at the edge of the reinforcement by the valve. I told the patient dudes who I was riding with that these tubes were a few years old and they said well that explains it. (Thankfully these flat fixes were snappy, in the 3-minute zone.) I have had old tubes many times. Does latex just expire? Last shorter than butyl? I probably did buy them at the same time! Suspicious about this flat timing! They are wide tubes. I am running 38mm RH tires at ballpark 40psi, my weight 180#, they ride great. Normally I would just patch small holes like these have but I am suspicious for various reasons! Does anyone know what is up? Thanks...

cyccommute 

Outside of a tire, they decay relatively rapidly. Inside a tire, they shouldn’t have too many problems. Rubber is fairly easy to keep from decaying if it is kept from light and ozone.

delbiker1 

I use the same tubes, never had one fail like shown in the picture. That kind of looks like a pinch puncture. I have also patched many latex tubes, with Rema patches and glue being the best, IMO. I have found glue less patches eventually release from the latex. I have one tube with 8 patches on it, still in use. I know I have had some of my latex tubes for a number of years, I believe I have never had one fail due to age deterioration.

masi61

You say they both failed at the edge of the reinforcement by the valve. This prompts me to ask: how is your inflation technique? Are you inadvertently pushing the valve in (or pulling it out) too many times as you go to inflate them before each ride? I have found that when I run the pink latex Vittoria tubes I will develop leaks in that same general vicinity and the failure is caused by my own trauma I am causing by my pump head.

I came up with my own system of keeping the unthreaded valve stems from moving:

Russ Roth

Looking at the location and style of the puncture I'd guess there's something wrong with the rim strip in the wheel, maybe a sharp edge if its plastic, often the overlap is near the valve hole, or its pushed away from the spoke hole. Don't know how long they last, most seem to die from punctures.

FBinNY 

YES, latex tubes age, dryout and oxidize. You'll see a color shift to brown as they age, and be warned that old latex tends to be brittle, and what would normally be a simple puncture ends up as tube shrapnel when you go to fix it.

I speak from 1st hand experience of 50+ years riding tubulars with latex tubes. Long runs of good luck, and wet riding has had me face this on a regular basis. It's also a good argument for making sure that spare tires are rotated into service rather than being carried as spares too long.

spclark 

Clever - nylon spacer w/ setscrew? I'll have to look through the Hillman bins at work, see if I can find something I can start with. There are solid and split 'shaft collars' in steel in 'em too but those are heavier (by how much I have to ask?) and would rust eventually. Maybe brass? Still heavy.

Stay tuned....

masi61

Ruland Clamp style collar 6mm. Has stainless steel set screw. Before I started using them I would develop leaks around the valve base just like the OP describes. I have since started using one of those Japanese side clamping “Hiro?” pump heads which once you get the hang of it they hold pressure well, don’t require pushing down on the valve stem for daily re-inflation before rides. I use the inexpensive copy pump head made by KCNC.

spclark 

Thanks!
In your pic that collar looks like HDPE or nylon; I'll have to look at Ruland's catalog to find similar item. Hillman has steel split shaft collars in various sizes but nothing in plastic that I know about.

masi61

MCL-6-P Is the Ruland part # I believe. I got mine from Zoro.

https://www.zoro.com/ruland-shaft-co...-p/i/G2823856/

trailangel

I have to agree with this.... and also FBin NY.. the Chain-L man.
When you buy a tubular tire with latex tube.. that tube is always in the tire safe from sunlight and ozone.
When you buy a latex tube for a clincher tire.. you don't know how long that tube has been stored, or under what conditions it's been stored. And some of the packaging is clear.
I had the same trouble.. trying to get the ride feel of tubulars on clincher tires..... and the latex tubes all were bad. So I just bought the lightweight butyl tubes instead.

cyccommute 

Storage in clear plastic packaging shouldn’t be a problem. Most plastics absorb UV fairly well in addition to offering an excellent barrier to ozone. Long term storage in paper boxes can be somewhat problematic since paper is acidic.

FBinNY 

Your headline shifts attention to the wrong place.

Your problem isn't the tube or it's age. It's the nature of the rim and tire fit. The cross section of inflated tires on most rims is something of an hourglass with the tire assuming an Omega shape with the beads forming a narrows and the rim having air space below that.

What's happening is that the base of the valve is above the narrows, and as you inflate the tire, the tube balloons down between the beads into the rim. However, the reinforced patch is too stiff to blow down that way, and forms a sort of overhang with a gap below. The tube immediately beyond is unsupported and stretches down past the beads, and with nothing to stop it blows into the gap near the valve, stretching it beyond it's limit. Like any rubber balloon it then pops. You can see the evidence of the problem in the form of the pimple, and also the stretch marks along the entire length of the tube's belly.

The remedy has 2 parts depending on the specific case. Best, once the tire is mounted, and before inflating push (do not pull) the valve all the way down past the beads.

In some cases the gap between the beads is too narrow and you cannot push the base of the valve past them, so need a Plan B. You can fashion some "ramps" on either side of the valve to support the tube there, and feather the transition from above to below the beads. Or, use material from a dead tube to make a longer reinforced area which tapers so the tube will settle lower without a sudden loss of strength so close to the valve.

wheelreason

Alll tubes go bad in a few years...

cyccommute 

That depends on the storage conditions. I’ve taken 40 year old tubes out of tires that are no longer rubberized. All they are are fabric cords. The tubes are just fine.

FBinNY 

Yes, and no.

Butyl tubes can last decades, even in less than ideal conditions.

However, while storage conditions make a big difference, latex tubes will age fairly quickly, no matter what. I consider 5 years to be the upper limit.

cyccommute 

Although I have never used latex tubes, I’m not inexperienced with dealing with latex…especially in conditions that damage latex. I used sheets of dental dam for vacuum pressing in a chemical laboratory for decades. That’s an environment where exposed latex will degrade in days to weeks. After uses, the dental dam was placed in sealed polyethylene containers and used over a period of many years. Inside a tire, there should be little to no degradation because there is little exposure to anything that would degrade the latex.

FBinNY 

IMO this is a case where actual specific experience trumps theoretical analysis.

First of all, tubes inside tires are not sealed in plastic bags. They're inflated daily, or nearly so. Moreover, tires are not weather proof, especially the lighter tires that users of latex tubes tend to have.

I've been riding tubulars with latex tubes since 1967, so we'll over 100 tires. 100% of the tubes that last that long show visible signs of oxidation --- brown color, and loss of elasticity, after a few years.

So, to anyone asking: if you're lucky enough to have latex tubes last a few years, figure on 5 years or so as the limit.

That said, the OP's problem has NOTHING to do with latex or age. He has a specific issue which I addressed earlier in post 13.

79pmooney

I've never seen it. Yes, they decay and become useless as innertubes but I've never seen one leave the box, steal, kill, break laws or otherwise "go bad". I haven't even seen them stir up trouble with my other bike parts. I did have a pair of Challenge latex tubes blow at the interface between the valve section and the tubes but as brand new tubes on their first ride (and two miles apart). Tough childhood?

So, use them in timely fashion but otherwise, don't worry about it. And check their references and police records.

LeeG

How many folks use latex tubes regularly? I used them for half my wheels for a couple years then decided the ride wasn’t worth the cost and lack of durability.

79pmooney

For me - latex tubes in clinchers was an interesting experiment but I never continued it. Now sewups? Yeah!! They work just fine. I never have to handle them. All I have to do is keep riding those sewups 'till they die, not shelve them. (And pump them up every time I go riding, a little ritual. And a little upper body workout. Always good.)

FBinNY 

Yes, sometimes it seems that the only arm exercise I get is with my Silca biceps machine.

IMO, latex makes sense in light tubulars, which have very supple sidewalls. In most clinchers, the only benefit is the added exercise.

In any case, I'm a broken record here, but the OPs problem has NOTHING to do with his tube's material.

JeffOYB

This is the only good answer. The punctures are similar despite different wheels. Aging would have nothing to do with a puncture pattern but this explanation below about ramps and beads might be onto something. I am thinking that patching the holes might create enough of a ramp of thicker matieral to help. I will also try the push the valve trick. I usually do that anyway so we will see...

FBinNY 

Don't forget the other side.